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An IC that joins a unit is no longer a unit himself.

This is merely implied in the IC rules on page 39 of the BRB(IC Boxout, Joining and leaving a unit, he returns to being his own unit by Leaving the joined unit or having them all killed around him and then that famous last line that the IC is part of the unit for all rules purposes).

But then we go back to the definition of a unit on page 3 where a unit is either a single model or several models together.

Joining a unit causes you to no longer be a unit in your own right because you are now a Model within the group of models banded together.

The problem with the wording in the BRB is that "unit" refers to two different things. 1) The grouping of models in coherency on the table. 2) The models that you buy in a codex that (usually) take up a force organisation slot.

It is unclear, in the Battle Brothers section, which definition of the word "unit" is being used.

40k-noob,

I join an Archon to a unit of Harlequins chosen from C: Eldar. I then go to cast Fortune on the unit, however, the Archon is the only model in range. Can I cast Fortune on the unit, considering
a) I can only target an Eldar unit
b) the Archon is not an Eldar unit
c) if the Archon was not joined to the Harlequin unit, it would not be in range.

Also remember according to you, the Archon is not an Eldar unit while attached to the Harlequins.

40k-noob wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.

No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.

Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.

Page 112 makes it clear that Allies, even Battle Brothers cannot embark Allied Transports.

^ this

It's a Poorly written section with no right answer in my opinion. We have 2 conflicting rules:

1). Allies cannot embark on Transports
2). IC's are treated as normal members of the unit for all rules purposes.

If you let them embark you're not following rule 1, if you don't you're not following rule 2. Very messy.

 grendel083 wrote:
It's a Poorly written section with no right answer in my opinion. We have 2 conflicting rules:

1). Allies cannot embark on Transports
2). IC's are treated as normal members of the unit for all rules purposes.

If you let them embark you're not following rule 1, if you don't you're not following rule 2. Very messy.

Allies rules overrule Character rules, as they're potentially "More advanced" (You can play a game without allies rules, but not without independant character rules, more easily.)

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
It's a Poorly written section with no right answer in my opinion. We have 2 conflicting rules:

1). Allies cannot embark on Transports
2). IC's are treated as normal members of the unit for all rules purposes.

If you let them embark you're not following rule 1, if you don't you're not following rule 2. Very messy.

Allies rules overrule Character rules, as they're potentially "More advanced" (You can play a game without allies rules, but not without independant character rules, more easily.)

They're both found in the Advanced section of the rules, how can you say one is more advanced than the other?
Imperial Guard can function without IC's just fine.

 grendel083 wrote:
It's a Poorly written section with no right answer in my opinion. We have 2 conflicting rules:

1). Allies cannot embark on Transports
2). IC's are treated as normal members of the unit for all rules purposes.

If you let them embark you're not following rule 1, if you don't you're not following rule 2. Very messy.

How is that messy?

If you violate any one of a set of rules, you are in violation. They only way for things to be legal is if it follows every one of a set of rules.

40k rules have been written like this for 26 years.

 grendel083 wrote:
It's a Poorly written section with no right answer in my opinion. We have 2 conflicting rules:

1). Allies cannot embark on Transports
2). IC's are treated as normal members of the unit for all rules purposes.

If you let them embark you're not following rule 1, if you don't you're not following rule 2. Very messy.

There is no rules conflict with a little Reading comprehension.

Allied units are not allowed in transports.

Allied Models in a Legal unit are just fine.

If the ethereal is an eldar then he can get in the transport. Oh wait they are tau so no. No riding in cars with the other team...

There's no way around it. Ya just can't

Lungpickle wrote:
If the ethereal is an eldar then he can get in the transport. Oh wait they are tau so no. No riding in cars with the other team...

There's no way around it. Ya just can't

'

And as Kommissar Kel pointed out the ally rules refer to Allied Units, not models. However, until GW FAQs it, I can see it going either way (like a bi-sex-u-al).

 Happyjew wrote:

Lungpickle wrote:
If the ethereal is an eldar then he can get in the transport. Oh wait they are tau so no. No riding in cars with the other team...

There's no way around it. Ya just can't

'

And as Kommissar Kel pointed out the ally rules refer to Allied Units, not models. However, until GW FAQs it, I can see it going either way (like a bi-sex-u-al).

And by KK's own admission he is making an inference from the IC rules and in doing so is making up a rule.

There is nothing in the BRB nor any Codex that removes a unit from being a unit of its Army.
The IC rules allow a unit to join another unit, and in doing so counts as a member of that unit, but it is still a unt in its own right. (a unit within a unit)

If that squad with the IC dies entirely, then how many units were killed? 2 would be the correct answer.

or for that matter if the games ends with an IC attached to a squad, does that IC unit count as destroyed?

or can your Warlord join an Allied squad at all, since your Warlord must be from your Primary detachment, and in joining an allied unit, he thus leaves his army to join the other army?

Personally, I am thinking in terms of the army designation being a keyword. So an Ethereal's "type" would be Tau Character. If he joins an allied Eldar unit, he his type becomes Tau/Eldar Character. It tells us that he becomes a member of the unit, but nowhere does it say he also loses his old designation. Meaning that he cannot embark on any vehicle until he leaves the unit.

This would also answer the Archon question above, since his type would be Eldar/Dark Eldar Character, meaning that he could be targetted by an Eldar power.

 Happyjew wrote:

And as Kommissar Kel pointed out the ally rules refer to Allied Units, not models.

And as I pointed out, no, it doesn't. The ally rule that forbids riding in transports just refers to allies. It makes no reference to units or models specifically.

I do not think that we will agree here (until a FAQ comes out). As it is, the OPs question has been answered, and if we need to continue going in circles, we should probably start a new thread (possibly with a poll to see how others read it/play it).