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I'm looking for help and suggestions in designing my new list. I've posted a few ideas before, but I haven't come up with anything I'm happy with.

So, this is what I'm looking for:
- I want to use Grey Knight Terminators
- I want to take some guard allies to give me more models on the table as well as some good vehicles

Other than that, anything goes. Any suggestion or list idea is welcome, at any points scale.

inq with termi armor, ml1, and psycan and a GM are some of the better HQs for termi style lists

Ok, Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Level 1, Psycannon: 110pts

If ur taking guard allies you will probably only be needing two troops for gk I would go with two msu gk termi squads with 3 halberds 2 hammers and a psycannon since you would like to use them.

I have seen PBS work exceptionally well for guard allies in the past. Just be sure to keep them safely tucked away in a chimera

Ok then, perhaps (For the IG Allies) three chimeras. One with a PBS and Primaris Psyker, and the other two with Veterans with 3x Meltaguns and 3x Plasma Guns respectively, as well as a Vendetta Gunship?

That sounds solid for the ig allies

Ok, so far we've got:

Inquisitor, Terminator Armour, Level One, Psycannon: 110pts

Primaris Psyker: 70pts

PBS, 5x Additional Psyker: 110pts
Chimera: 55pts

Veterans, 3x Meltagun: 100pts
Chimera: 55pts

Veterans, 3x Plasma Gun: 115pts
Chimera: 55pts

Vendetta: 130pts

That comes to 800pts total, what would you add to say, make it a 1500pts list?

Perhaps:
Terminator Squad, Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo, Demon Hammer: 245pts

Terminator Squad, Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo, Demon Hammer: 245pts

Which leaves 110pts spare

Looks good but I would set the wargear for the termis to 3 halberds 2 hammers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To top it off you could add another inquisitor with the same gear or coteaz

Don't take Psybolts on squads that are less than 8--it's not worth the points, considering you'll probably lose a few models before you're in shooting range. Since the GKs are allies, why don't you take a 10 Man squad and combat squad it, thus paying for Psybolts only once instead of twice? That saves you 20pts and keeps your list exactly the same.

Edit: Ah, the GK are the primary, and guard are allies. The way your list is built right now, I'd suggest doing it the other way, as you'll save 20 points!

Scoring Termies are one of the best things about GK, but the others are: DKnight, Psyflemen, Vindicare, GKSS, Coteaz. Your list doesn't have any of those things, which makes me sad.

You currently don't have any good anti-tank. The melta Chimera will get popped before it can get in range, leaving the meltas stranded and probably dead. Trade those for a Psyfleman or a Vindi.

You also have 16 scoring bodies on the table, and 6 of those are guardsmen, which is not very effective. Sure the Termies are durable...until a plasma squad opens up on them. Then you've got five dead Termies. You need more scoring models.

16 scoring models? As I count it I have 30...
Ten Terminators and Twenty Guardsmen (2 Veteran Squads)
But, your right, I probably do need some more scoring models.

As for Anti-Tank, I have the Vendetta Gunship as well as the meltas but you're right, I do need some more. However, I do have 110pts spare, could I get anything decent enough for that?

As for the GK things I don't have, DKinght, fair enough, I would like one, perhaps when I move the list up to 2000pts. Psyflemen, ok, perhaps I could add one of those. Vindicare, they look good however, to me, they seem to fragile for their cost and I can just see it getting picked off before it can do anything. I don't really want to add a Strike Squad because the idea was to have a terminator theme list and I don't really see why Coteaz is that good unless you are taking henchmen.

Coteaz, even without Henchman, is still one of the best HQ choices in the entire game. He can take 2 Divination powers, nothing can Deep Strike anywhere within 12" of him or his squad without getting annihilated before they get chance to do anything, and he allows you to re-roll your D6 to seize initiative as well as making the opponent re-roll theirs if they succeed. He also has a 2+ save, D6 shooting attacks with his Eagle and a Daemon Hammer for some instant death CC shenanigans, not to mention a stunningly shiny bald head, all for 100 points.

You'll be hard pushed to find me a more cost effective HQ for the points cost!

I'm a fan of sticking him with a full Draigowing setup and dishing out Prescience to them as they march forward with 4 Psycannons. Then, when we get into CC and the opponent wants to challenge him out, I just accept it on Draigo and cave their face in.

Ah, I see my error. I'm not familiar with IG units, and so thought that "3x meltagun" meant there were only three models in that unit. 10 per unit is better. I suppose I could've figured that out if I had paid attention to the points.

I'll repeat: they way you're playing, make the GK the allies. Allies are best used to fill holes in codices, and the way you're building your list doesn't take advantage of most of GK's good stuff, while you are using good IG stuff. You're using the GKT as a durable unit to plod forward and contest/claim an objective, something that IG doesn't have a unit for. So GKT are filling a hole in the IG, not the other way around.
If you don't want GKSS, that's fine, stick with the Termies...but that makes me think back to what I just said about a single unit (GKT) from another codex (GK) filling a particular role in your IG list. Make the IG the primary and take another Troops choice.

Drop the Psykers. Their power is fun, until the Perils kills them all, or until a few models are killed, dropping the effectiveness greatly. They're fragile models, too dependent on not getting shot while somehow maintaining LoS to the target, and passing their Psychic test.

Your point about the Vindicare is a good one. Sometimes she doesn't do anything. But frequently she's fantastic! If you have first turn, Infiltrating the sniper 12" away from the enemy, then popping out and killing an IC/Tank (rear AV) on turn one (with the pistol, of course) is a great start to the game. And then they have to direct firepower on the Vindicare instead of your scoring units....

I also agree completely with everything Enceladus said about Coteaz (even the baldness). You won't have that extra psycannon in your Termies, but they WILL be TL; 28 BS4 shots (12 of them Psycannons) will get 18-19 hits; 27 TL BS4 shots (8 of them Psycannons, avg 3 shots for Coteaz) will get 24 hits. With Coteaz, you'll be better at killing mobs, with the Inq better at vehicles. But Coteaz also gets another power, most of which are great. Imagine your GKT in combat with a 3++ (Forewarn+NFS), or that mob you're shooting at having to re-roll its saves!

Lose the PBS... it's really really bad for it's points. Take Coteaz. Take psycannons. End.

Oh, and marbo.

Ok, thanks for all the advice guys, what about this:

Primaris Psyker: 70pts

Guardsman Marbo : 65pts

Veterans, 3x Meltagun: 100pts
Chimera: 55pts

Veterans, 3x Plasma Gun: 115pts
Chimera: 55pts

Veterans, 3x Meltagun : 100pts
Chimera : 55pts

Vendetta: 130pts

Coteaz: 100pts

Terminator Squad, 5x Additional Terminator, 2x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo, 2x Demon Hammer: 470pts

Dreadknight, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword: 185pts

1500pts

I've swapped it round so the IG are the primary detachment and added in a few more things as per your suggestions. I'm still not sure about the Vindicare, although I might add one to my 2000pts list for the reasons you said.

Anything else you can suggest? The only thing I can think of is a potential lack of anti-air.

Firstly, NEVER footslog a DK. ALWAYS get the teleporter. Second, if you want more anti-air, lose the DK altogether and get another vendetta.
What are your views on FW? Because FW hydra platforms are a good source of anti-air.

Well, my gaming group don't generally use forge world, so I would prefer to stick to normal GW.
As for not footslogging my Dreadknight, why do you say that? Moving at the same speed as my Terminators seemed to be a good idea.

It's such a huge threat that people will just shoot the crap out of it straight away. It needs the 30" shunt to shoot turn 1 effectively, and charge without fail turn two (unless it dies).

I would say that the Primaris Psyker is an inferior choice to the CCS, as its a fragile warlord, and its abilities aren't really useful. I also don't know if psybolt is a good investment for a 5 man squad, especially when only three have storm bolters.

The terminator squad is ten men now so Psybolt I would consider to be worth it.
As for the Primaris Psyker, I was under the impression that he just counted as a Level 2 psyker who could pick one of the rulebook lores, so his less than excellent psychic powers aren't such a concern. Am I wrong on that?

As for the teleporter, what would you suggest dropping in order to fit it in?

 Mustela wrote:
I would say that the Primaris Psyker is an inferior choice to the CCS, as its a fragile warlord, and its abilities aren't really useful. I also don't know if psybolt is a good investment for a 5 man squad, especially when only three have storm bolters.

The terminator squad has 10 models. The psyker is better than a CCS with minimum upgrades, which is all you'd get for 70pts. The psyker can hang with the vets in a chimera, and biomancy out the top, or buff units out the top.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Mustela wrote:
I would say that the Primaris Psyker is an inferior choice to the CCS, as its a fragile warlord, and its abilities aren't really useful. I also don't know if psybolt is a good investment for a 5 man squad, especially when only three have storm bolters.

The terminator squad has 10 models. The psyker is better than a CCS with minimum upgrades, which is all you'd get for 70pts. The psyker can hang with the vets in a chimera, and biomancy out the top, or buff units out the top.

Ah, good, it seems I was right and, yes, this is what I intended to do with him.

 RaptorsTallon wrote:
The terminator squad is ten men now so Psybolt I would consider to be worth it.
As for the Primaris Psyker, I was under the impression that he just counted as a Level 2 psyker who could pick one of the rulebook lores, so his less than excellent psychic powers aren't such a concern. Am I wrong on that?

As for the teleporter, what would you suggest dropping in order to fit it in?

The psyker is only level one, but can take two powers in any combination from biomancy, pyromancy, telekinesis or telepathy (IIRC). Personally I would lose the DK altogether in this list for possibly another vendetta? Depends on personal preference.

I would prefer not to have a second Vendetta purely for logistics reasons. (I can hardly fit one in as it is, I don't know how I would transport a second Vendetta)

Although, I'm not sure how much of a problem it will be for me because the people I play with don't seem to have more than one flyer in their list.

They are also very good at antitank. But fair enough. I don't see an easy 75pts to lose though for the teleporter. I think just drop the DK, maybe buy some henchmen.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Mustela wrote:
I would say that the Primaris Psyker is an inferior choice to the CCS, as its a fragile warlord, and its abilities aren't really useful. I also don't know if psybolt is a good investment for a 5 man squad, especially when only three have storm bolters.

The terminator squad has 10 models. The psyker is better than a CCS with minimum upgrades, which is all you'd get for 70pts. The psyker can hang with the vets in a chimera, and biomancy out the top, or buff units out the top.

Ah, I forgot that the psyker can get rulebook powers. Still, I wouldn't completely rule out the CCS for buffs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tactical_Genius wrote:
They are also very good at antitank. But fair enough. I don't see an easy 75pts to lose though for the teleporter. I think just drop the DK, maybe buy some henchmen.

I think this is good advice also, as the main appeal of the dreadknight is as a turn 1 threat.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
They are also very good at antitank. But fair enough. I don't see an easy 75pts to lose though for the teleporter. I think just drop the DK, maybe buy some henchmen.

Thing is, without the Heavy Incinerator, I can't see a way that I could deal with hoards very easily. Any suggestions?

You have psycannons... If you really need anti-horde, for cheaper than the DK you can get 9 DCA and 3 Crusaders, which will wreck anything in CC. Give the DCA one axe and one sword each, and let hilarity ensue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Mustefa, the CCS buffs would be wasted, given the fact that all IG infantry are chimera mounted in this list.

Enceladus wrote:
Coteaz, even without Henchman, is still one of the best HQ choices in the entire game. He can take 2 Divination powers, nothing can Deep Strike anywhere within 12" of him or his squad without getting annihilated before they get chance to do anything, and he allows you to re-roll your D6 to seize initiative as well as making the opponent re-roll theirs if they succeed. He also has a 2+ save, D6 shooting attacks with his Eagle and a Daemon Hammer for some instant death CC shenanigans, not to mention a stunningly shiny bald head, all for 100 points.

(emphasis mine)
Just pointing out that even w/ the DHammer, Coteaz is only throwing S6 attacks, so be sure to save a psyker charge to activate the nemesis if you want insta-killing

Apostasus wrote:

Enceladus wrote:
Coteaz, even without Henchman, is still one of the best HQ choices in the entire game. He can take 2 Divination powers, nothing can Deep Strike anywhere within 12" of him or his squad without getting annihilated before they get chance to do anything, and he allows you to re-roll your D6 to seize initiative as well as making the opponent re-roll theirs if they succeed. He also has a 2+ save, D6 shooting attacks with his Eagle and a Daemon Hammer for some instant death CC shenanigans, not to mention a stunningly shiny bald head, all for 100 points.

(emphasis mine)
Just pointing out that even w/ the DHammer, Coteaz is only throwing S6 attacks, so be sure to save a psyker charge to activate the nemesis if you want insta-killing

Can still use hammerhand

Tactical_Genius wrote:
You have psycannons... If you really need anti-horde, for cheaper than the DK you can get 9 DCA and 3 Crusaders, which will wreck anything in CC. Give the DCA one axe and one sword each, and let hilarity ensue.

The problem with using this set up is that, unless I put them in a fourth transport vehicle, I don't see them managing to make it to the enemy units before they are blown away.