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Hey guys, same as most others I am scared by GW recent price hikes and have also heard a lot of good things about the WMH ruleset.

I am looking for an army with a low model count, that also plays fun. I saw the Circle stuff looked like it might be in that alley. I am just so tired of painting lots of infantry,

While many factions can field lists that have low model counts, I will suggest either Hordes or Convergence if you want to have high diversity of lists within a single faction.

Amongst Hordes, I'd say Legion does this best, followed by Circle. More good legion lists will be heavy warbeast than good Circle lists, though they'll both be comparable. Trollbloods tend to field fairly infantry-heavy lists (for a hordes faction,) and Skorne lean more towards infantry than either Circle or Legion.

Circle tends to focus on movement/positioning abilities, while legion tends to focus on damage and threat range. Movement in this context will either mean the ability to position things in surprising ways or the ability to move/attack/move. Both factions tend to have a number of magic attacks and the like available to them.

What style of army are you looking to play? Do you prefer ranged, melee, high technology, low technology? Should be simple to throw some example lists for some factions you may be interested in, as well, if you'd like.

Welcome to Warmachine/ Hordes, and good you made the change! ^_^

First, I would say take a look at this link and will give you a general rundown on what each faction has to offer. Second, I would see about communities around you that play Warmachine/Hordes, and see if you have any friend that want to get into it, because it would kind of suck if you start it up and have no one to play right? Also, the plus side to this usually that the battlebox set is about 50 USD, even 25% off if you look around and comes with quick-start rules so you can get the basics of the game rather quickly, plus much cheaper than starting up any of the Warhammers! Also, since you are working with Metal models most of the time, I highly suggest you pin them. The battleboxes are in plastic though so you will have no problems with that, but most of the PP line is metal so keep that in mind.

Not trying to turn you away if it seems that way, but I wanted to give you a few pointers.

If you'd like to read a small summary of each army I think Vomkrieg has the best one. Not only do they give a bit of fluff but also their play styles.

http://vom-krieg.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/picking-faction-noobs-guide-to.html


If you're looking for an army with low models counts I'd suggest Legion. They run plenty of crazy warbeasts that look like half-dragon tyranids. They're excellent at killing things(at both melee and range) but they tend to be a little squishier than other warbeasts/jacks.

One thing you'll have to get used to when making the switch is that your Warcaster/Warlock(HQ) choice will be the center piece of your army instead of just another model that maybe comes with an extra special ability or gun. If your caster dies you lose, and their feat/spell list determines what kind of army you'll be playing.

I too would suggest Hordes... Warmachine factions generally prefer infantry squads with 1-3 warjacks(the big robots), due to the fact that they are operating with a limited resource to run them, namely the warcaster's focus. That generally means 1-3 big dudes, and around 20-40 infantry. There are exceptions, but they are rare.

Hordes has the advantage that beasts, unlike warmachines, provide ther own fuel, and they fuel fuel the warlock instead, so you can, and are encouraged to, run lists with a lot of beasts and a few infantry. In fact, you can generally run all beasts lists in most Hordes faction.

I'd generally suggest that your best best for a low model count army is the Legion of Everblight. They tend to the the ones who's warlocks like running a lot of beasts the most, and the faction has excellent fury handling solos, which means you dont have problems managing that many beasts. In fact, many easy and effective Legion lists tend to be 3 beasts and 2-3 solos, basically 7 models in total, with maybe a couple of lesser beasts if your heavies are cheaper. Occasionally you'll want to switch one of the heavy beast with an infantry unit for variety, but you'll be running really elite armies of a few beasts for most of the Legion warlocks.

Legion also tends to be one of the more fun factions to play, in my opinion, as they tend to be a glass cannon. Their beasts are expensive and fragile, but extremely powerful, so you need to be on top of your game. They do shooting and melee equally well, so they are versatile . And their are Cthulhu dragons, which is awesome.

Looking around I am attracted to the looks of the Khador models.

Khador doesn't really do low model count much. Barring a couple casters, you'll usually be taking only one or two warjacks, and a LOT of infantry, and some of their go-to units are rather low points cost for the amount of models you get.

If you're wanting to do low model count in Warmachine, I'd look at the upcoming Convergence of Cyriss and the Protectorate of Menoth.

I have a friend who wants to start with me and is interested in protectorate. If we split the two player battle box, how close is that to a good sized force? What should I get to expand the Khador side? Sorry if these questions sound ignorant I just want to optimize my purchase.

The 2 player box is 20 points per side (after deducting warcaster points). It's definitely a great starting point, especially when played against the other half of the box. To expand, I'd probably start with the new Iron Fang Kovnik, as he'll help the Shock Troopers a lot. To fill the remaining three points (assuming you're aiming at 25), either Eiryss is an excellent choice. Mind you, there are very few wrong choices here. Nearly everything in the game is good, as long as you know what you're doing with it and how they work with the rest of your list.

I'd definitely try to play at least five games with just the contents of the starter box, however. Warmachine isn't a great game to jump in with both feet, as the learning curve can be quite dramatic. Learning how units and battle groups work gradually is a much better way to get into the game, and has the additional advantage of keeping you from dropping a lot of money in one swoop.

I appreciate it =)

I'd go with any 2 pt solo that you want (Manhunter, Sniper, Sylyss, etc) and the greatest 1 pt solo in the game to fill out those 3 points. The War Puppy!

If you're wanting low model count I think you'd want to stay away from warmachine as a whole.

From what I've come to understand, warmachine relies on infantry with warjacks for support, while hordes relies on warbeasts with infantry as support.

There are situation where this might not be the case, like epic morvahnna with circle, but for the most part from what I understand that's how it is.

Compared to 40k everything has a lower model count, unless you played a terminator armor vehical heavy army. Khador is fine go with it, 2 play starter kit is awesome. After that I suggest you pick up winter guard infantry with UA and Joseph Kovnik and for your friend Exemplar Errants with UA and Choir, this will allow you to have 25 to 35 point games learn how troops, jacks, casters, and solos all work

All armies will have low model count compared to 40k, and you can choose how much numbers you have

I would say Circle plays a little something like Eldar, where they use good damage, cunning, mobility, stealth and tricks to win

Hell, I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of the rules and proxying the armies that you might be interested in. It's very difficult to get a good 'feel' of the game until you've played a few decent sized games (35 pts), and once you've gotten an army of that size, you might be disinclined to switch over to a faction you're more interested in.

I'll also say that Khador tends to field a significant amount of infantry. You'll not approach how much ya' put down in 40k, but it'll be as much or more than nearly every other faction in Warmachine/Hordes.

Welcome to the Warmachine world

As a khador player since MK1 - I can vouch for usually having a high model count. Khador warjacks are the biggest/toughest/strongest in the kingdom but that also makes them somewhat expensive and focus hungry. Khador is also the only faction that does not have light warjacks/beasts so your only option is to field heavies.

HOWEVER - Khador has extremely heavy infantry choices as well - Man-o-war troopers are basically the iron kingdom's terminators, and one of our warcasters is at his best with 3 of our most expensive/powerful warjacks. Look him up - the name is Karchev the Terrible and he can be very competitive.

What you will find about warmachine/hordes is that games are not won by list building - there are tons of viable lists but there is not a single "best list" - everything has a counter and every faction can counter any list. Victory comes to the player with the most skill and experience so expect to lose alot when you first start.

Cryx is also notorious for infantry swarms. Probably more so than Khador in my experience.

 dreadnova wrote:
Looking around I am attracted to the looks of the Khador models.

Please, consider the following points carefully before going for Khador:

1) Khador is an infantry swarm army.
2) Khador is an infantry swarm army.
3) Khador does not do low model count or 'Jacks.
4) Khador is an infantry swarm army.
5) Khador is an infantry swarm army.
6) Khador does not do low model count or "jacks.
7) Man o' Wars are for the most part, lackluster.
8) Khador is an infantry swarm army.

Seriously, if you don't want to run a sea of mooks don't play khador. If you like 'Jack models, don't play Khador. If you like Man o' Wars, don't play Khador.

EDIT:

What you will find about warmachine/hordes is that games are not won by list building - there are tons of viable lists but there is not a single "best list" - everything has a counter and every faction can counter any list. Victory comes to the player with the most skill and experience so expect to lose alot when you first start.

I find this general refrain to be a bit intellectually dishonest when it comes to WM. There may not be any single "Best List" but WM games certainly can be won or lost at the matchup stage. There are good lists and bad lists and you just can't expect to take "Whatever, it looks cool" and come out on top. A good player can usually win against a bad one, even if they're on the wrong side of a lopsided matchup, however for players even remotely close to being in on the same level their lists are going to play a huge role, maybe even a decisive one.

Good luck walking away with a victory if you're playing pMorvhana and they've got The Harbinger of Menoth. You've just got no game in that matchup. You can avoid this in tournaments thanks to multiple lists, but in casual games where you probably don't announce your caster/lists until you're actually putting models on the table it can be a rude awakening for new players who are told they aren't going to have their army swept off the table because they brought the wrong list.

Chongara wrote:

I find this general refrain to be a bit intellectuayl dishonest when it comes to WM. There may not be any single "Best List" but WM games certainly can be won or lost at the matchup stage. There are good lists and bad lists and you just can't expect to take "Whatever, it looks cool" and come out on top. A good player can usually win against a bad one, even if they're on the wrong side of a lopsided matchup, however for players even remotely close to being in on the same level their lists are going to play a huge role, maybe even a decisive one.

Good luck walking away with a victory if you're playing pMorvhana and they've got The Harbinger of Menoth. You've just got no game in that matchup. You can avoid this in tournaments thanks to multiple lists, but in casual games where you probably don't annouce your caster/lists until you're actually putting models on the table it can be a rude awakening for new players who are told they aren't going to have their army swept off the table because they brought the wrong list.

It's common practice to keep your caster card on you and show your opponent just before chosing sides and such so that no list tailoring can take place. In a tourney setting most people don't take the "best" casters, but the ones with the fewest bad matchups, many of the "best" casters (like harby above vs a lot of ranged assassination lists) have holes in their playstyle. Because of how warmachine plays though, assassination is always an option and no matter the matchup if your opponent screws up or you drill to his caster, and you roll lots of boxcars on his caster, you're going to win.

Id like to note, in 50pts, a Infantry swarm army is generally 30 infantry models is all.

Not 150-200+ Like 40k.


Be sure to look at it that way.

Almost every 50pt warmachine army has less models then a 1500+ 40k army.

 Spyder68 wrote:
Id like to note, in 50pts, a Infantry swarm army is generally 30 infantry models is all.

Not 150-200+ Like 40k.


Be sure to look at it that way.

Almost every 50pt warmachine army has less models then a 1500+ 40k army.

I second this.

Although you do not have to do that for Khador and that, from what I have seen they work well with a good amount of infantry. Just to keep in mind, but you will not have as much models like compared to Warhammer 40k as Spyder68 stated.

Coming from 40k, every army is going to be low model count. Even the high model count ones.

My 50pt tier 3 eKreoss list for Menoth is about as troop spammy as you can get at that point level and it only has about 40 models.


With Circle you'll probably only end up with 2 units of infantry even at 50 points. A unit of Skinwalkers with the UA is 6 medium based models. Then maybe a unit of small based infantry like Bloodtrackers. Which is another 11 models if you take the UA. So 17 infantry models at most realistically speaking.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Coming from 40k, every army is going to be low model count. Even the high model count ones.

My 50pt tier 3 eKreoss list for Menoth is about as troop spammy as you can get at that point level and it only has about 40 models.


With Circle you'll probably only end up with 2 units of infantry even at 50 points. A unit of Skinwalkers with the UA is 6 medium based models. Then maybe a unit of small based infantry like Bloodtrackers. Which is another 11 models if you take the UA. So 17 infantry models at most realistically speaking.

One of the things you'll find about warmachine is spamming doesn't work, at 25pts you have your beatdown-core of models (jacks/beasts) and then at higher point values you add utility models/units, and either infantry, or support so you can have more beatdown jacks, you won't see a harby tier list with like 10 crusaders at 50pts or any nonsense like that, because those lists just get slagged

Right, my 50 pt Harby list only has 5 Crusaders and the Avatar.

 Grey Templar wrote:

My 50pt tier 3 eKreoss list for Menoth is about as troop spammy as you can get at that point level and it only has about 40 models.

Menoth is displeased at your lack of tier 4. out of curiosity, what is your 50 point t3 ekreoss list?

To the OP, yeah that's about as spammy as you get

an extra 2" of deployment isn't worth paying an extra 3 points for the Fire of Salvation.

The list is,

Kreoss
-Crusader

2 units of max Bastions

2 units of KE

max Errants with UA

2 KE Seneshals

just remember seneshals healing aura doesn't stack

Those aren't Bastion Sennys.

 Grundz wrote:


One of the things you'll find about warmachine is spamming doesn't work,

Xerxis Tier 1 Cataphract Spam