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Hey

I am really getting into the new Tau codex, it's VERY different from the last as there are a ton of options to choose from.

The older version really limited your choices to hammerheads, Suit HQ, XV8's, Firewarriors and broadsides.

Now not only are those units good but the rest of the book has been updated. I feel all of the new rules on the old models demand attention and are worth looking closely at if you want a competitive list.

I've played a handful of games and I'd just like to list a couple key points. PLEASE chime in with your own opinions on these units.

Ones that stand out:

XV8 Commander - This guy seems like the key to the new codex. Theres lot of play with him having FOUR "hardpoints" and a built in multi-tracker and BSF. Theres a lot of options with drone controller, I haven't found a great way to give markerdrones BS5 because if forces the rest of the squad to fire at the same markerlighted squad.

Gun drones are great with this guy. I challenge anyone to find a better gun in the game being fired at BS5 for 12 points.

I have yet to try this loadout but get excited even just thinking about it:

Fusion/Fusion/Stim/Vectored Retro-thrusters/Iridium/Onager and maybe even a jammer if you're feeling ultra frisky.

Firewarriors - They didn't get MANY changes but the indirect buffs they received from overwatch existing and rapid fire rules getting changed are awesome. They come cheap and so does the devilfish. Supporting fire I feel REALLY pushes these guys over the top. Stacking them near another group of units really puts your opponent between a rock and a hard place.

Hammerheads seem unchanged other than the cost. I think they are good still and deserve spot in any army but I don't see more than 1 a lot of the time. Still flexible with submunition and hard to take down with disruption pods and front armor 13. I REALLY wanted longstrike to be good and I feel is very close. Originally reading him I over-valued his overwatch capabilities and tank hunter just isn't as necessary as I thought as st10 blows open most vehicles consistently without it. BS 5 is really nice but ultimately I feel he's not worth it. If my Longstrike tank died turn 1 from a goldfish d6 on the penetration table from my opponent I think I would be sick.

Stealth suits - I think these guys are great now. They are mobile, have great cover saves and their weapons got a sexy buff. No more 6 stealthed shrouded gundrones : ( but they are a cool and effective unit to bring in from reserves I feel.I really dislike the fusion gun on them because it's literally the opposite of burst cannons and I don't want to pay extra for a markerlight and target lock to make an already serviceable unit slightly better.

BROADSIDES - The reason we played Tau originally. Damn those models were cool.

Now I am a little conflicted, Railguns and SMS are very different and we don't have an ASS option anymore so I really hate moving them. I think they are good light vehicle killers but those come a dime a dozen. Expensive for the effects. I position them out in the open to utilize their 2+ save early in the game.

Someone convince me that they are awesome. Please.

I really dislike HYMP's, 30 inches +heavy doesn't make for an effective weapon when the codex already has a ton of MP's avail.

XV8's - The codex still really revolves around these guys, a TON of awesome options opened up once we realized we could double down on weapons.

I love TLMP/MP especially when I mentally designate their unit as my marker light user's.

TL Plasma/Plasma is just so awesome aswell. Nobody is charging these guys without paying a price and they only cost 22 points base.

Awesome unit with a ton of options.

Ethereal's seem like they have promise with their extra shot capabilities.

Fireblade does not, I just always want my firewarriors being mobile and moving in either for linebreaker or to contest or just to get into range. The HQ himself doesn't have an impressive stat line which would've been nice.


Opinions? Please disagree with me on Broadsides. I love them. Old model rocks,

Fireblade.

12 Firewarriors.

A mundane unit and a 'throwaway' cheap HQ just became a awesome reliable combo of doom!

As far as I can make out,

1. Riptides
2. Riptides
3. Riptides

Aijec wrote:

XV8 Commander - This guy seems like the key to the new codex. Theres lot of play with him having FOUR "hardpoints" and a built in multi-tracker and BSF. Theres a lot of options with drone controller, I haven't found a great way to give markerdrones BS5 because if forces the rest of the squad to fire at the same markerlighted squad.

You could always put the commander in a squad of markerdrones.

Aijec wrote:

BROADSIDES - The reason we played Tau originally. Damn those models were cool.

Now I am a little conflicted, Railguns and SMS are very different and we don't have an ASS option anymore so I really hate moving them. I think they are good light vehicle killers but those come a dime a dozen. Expensive for the effects. I position them out in the open to utilize their 2+ save early in the game.

Someone convince me that they are awesome. Please.

I really dislike HYMP's, 30 inches +heavy doesn't make for an effective weapon when the codex already has a ton of MP's avail.

HYMP are 36 inches actually. Also when you shoot 36 shots at pretty much anything with BS 5 (markerlight) TL it will die. In most games my missilesides are far and away my MVP's.

Give broadsides EWO and laugh at any drop pods and even shave off some HP from fliers, even without skyfire.

I've been using a Mark'O quite a bit and freakin love it! BS5 markers are the gak! And when i want to move my broadside i just shoot my Mark'O at that squad and boost his snapfiring BS to whatever i need it to be. I LOVE missilesides! Not a fan of the model, but with railsides going down to S8 i see them getting very limited use in my Army. If i Knew i was going up against a lot of transports or flyers i'd take em, but even then the missilesides are almost always better, with or without skyfire.

Also, you know what i found shines? Kroot! Out flank them and wreak havoc on the back lines, with sniper ammo and acute senses(hound) they can target and kill just about anything you'd want and if not you can move them and rapidfire something, its won me my last 2 games

Pathfinders are my favorite now.

I think nearly every unit in the new Tau codex is viable. It strikes me as perhaps one of the most internally balanced/high-variety Codexes in the game at present.

I had to do some serious thinking. Every slot in this dex is highly contested except troops. I find I short change my troops just to save points for everything else, but even troops are great now. FW are fine, their ride is over priced still, but with minor buffing the FW are awesome, but costs an HQ slot. Kroot are more useful than ever and still cheap.

I find myself not fielding crisis suits at all except with a Marker'O and drone squad. I like the heavy suit theme so it isnt a big deal. I just wish Stealth suits were somewhere else or something unlocked them as troops so I could field them, no room in the elite slots.

 Kingsley wrote:
I think nearly every unit in the new Tau codex is viable. It strikes me as perhaps one of the most internally balanced/high-variety Codexes in the game at present.

"Nearly"?
Find me one unit that don't have potential.

And before you jump "Vespids and stealth", if you haven't seen them in game with their new guns, you will be surprised just how better they got.

Anu'shi is the only questionable dude, and even he has merits in challange lockdown, though that's pretty much strictly an anti-CSM trick.


Taking it further, looking at IA3, it is ALSO damn well balance, and the only units I would not at least consider are the alternate hammerheads and the kroots.

I love the Tau codex, I find that it balanced out the abilities and powers amongst the units very well instead of just making 2 or three units great and the rest mediocre. I have played about 12 games so far and If I learned anything it is that Commander and XV8's with dual wielding plasma are pure fury.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
I think nearly every unit in the new Tau codex is viable. It strikes me as perhaps one of the most internally balanced/high-variety Codexes in the game at present.

"Nearly"?
Find me one unit that don't have potential.

And before you jump "Vespids and stealth", if you haven't seen them in game with their new guns, you will be surprised just how better they got.

Anu'shi is the only questionable dude, and even he has merits in challange lockdown, though that's pretty much strictly an anti-CSM trick.


Taking it further, looking at IA3, it is ALSO damn well balance, and the only units I would not at least consider are the alternate hammerheads and the kroots.

yeah Stingwings are just so much better and i already used them anyways!

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
As far as I can make out,

1. Riptides
2. Riptides
3. Riptides

False. Riptides can't put out the necessary firepower to be an excellent choice.

1. XV8-02 Commander

An XV8 team is a quintessentially Tau unit. Taking a unit of 3 XV8s led by a Tau Commander in XV8-02 armour with stimulant injector makes a min-riptide in toughness - The tau commander can even rely on the 5+ FNP as an invulnerable save since the only thing that can take it away from him are S10 weapons. IF his wounds drop too low or he is beset by a S10 weapon, throw a drone his way.

2. Riptides

Riptides are incredibly tough. Throw a riptide stimulant on them, or not and you have a unit that will either draw so much firepower first turn that your army won't be hurt, or will be ignored and given free reign over your opponent's heavy infantry and tanks.

3. Pathfinders

Pathfinders are the bread and butter support unit of Tau. You can't really get away with not having them, unless you're running a farsight bomb with a C&CN and MSSS.

4. Gun Drones.

Gun drones keep pace with your suits and can take hits for them. They can also put out an impressive amount of firepower, being more about 5% more accurate base than your BS3 XV8 suits.

5. Ionheads

a S8 large blast with a long range. BS4. Long fangs may not be godlike anymore, but this would hurt them. This also makes blood angels a thing of the past, since deepstriking with one of these on the field is the most dangerous endeavour ever.

Oh, they also work on anything that's T6 or worse - 3 S7AP3 shots will potentially kill 3 T63+ save wraithguard - enough to make back most of the ionhead's points.

I don't take Pathfinders—I just give my commander a target lock and a drone controller and anywhere from 2 to 12 marker drones.

It be easier to just list things that are bad in the codex.

and the only thing i can find, which isn't even a unit is the pointless burst cannon upgrades on tanks.

edit: also adding in IA3 would be heavy gun drones.

wilsjur wrote:
I don't take Pathfinders—I just give my commander a target lock and a drone controller and anywhere from 2 to 12 marker drones.

If that were why Pathfinders were awesome, I'd agree. Butits not why Pathfinders are awesome. I've only fired my Pathfinder markerlights in a total of one game and once in Overwatch in another game. That's it.

the new options for the XV8s (like not TLing weapons and included MT) have really helped then and makes them a great unit to run in tandam with a rip tide

 Jancoran wrote:

wilsjur wrote:
I don't take Pathfinders—I just give my commander a target lock and a drone controller and anywhere from 2 to 12 marker drones.

If that were why Pathfinders were awesome, I'd agree. Butits not why Pathfinders are awesome. I've only fired my Pathfinder markerlights in a total of one game and once in Overwatch in another game. That's it.

There are lots off different, effective, uses of pathfinders.

The fact that you have done this proves the fact rather than shows them to be effective when not using their marker lights.

i am curious how people use stealth suits and pathfinders effectively. I like the idea of infiltrating 6 Stealthsuits and jump out, gak out infantry, JSJ back in cover (yea, danger tests but not that worried about it). Problem is its an elite slot and i seem to always depend HEAVILY on my crisis deepstrikers or long-range riptides to deal with heavier things.

FA is the weakest in the codex to me. Literally every thing else has a use except our fliers, vespids, or prahnas. Pathfinders i just havent figured out how to use them yet, and of course markerdrones are epic even without a mark'O with them because theyre far more mobile than pathfinders, slightly more durable (T4 and 4+ vs T3 and 5+), can JSJ, and are Relentless so none of this snapfiring markerlight bullcrap. 3 more points for all that....yes please....only drawback being its almost impossible to get cover saves since drones are so tiny and elevated so high.

Also to the guy with the HUGE mark'o group....dafuq are you taking 12 marker drones for if you got a mark'o in there? Huge waste of points because thats going to be ~9-11 marks on ONE unit since drones cant splitfire (unless i missed something allowing them) and you will never need THAT many marks on something. Better off cutting that in half and not having a mark'o with the other 6.

I actually really like Pathfinders and Stealth Suits in the same army. Stealths can get close to the back edge, allowing back edge outflanking with the Positional Relay, and the Pathfinders can outflank with a metric ton of S5 shots or their special weapons. The good part is that it's not like you have to designate them as outflankers in an army list. You can just adapt them to whatever is advantageous to terrain and opposing army.

Look at a squad of 8 with EMP grenades and no weapon upgrades. It can stay back and use Markers, then switch to carbines and EMPs as needed if targets get close. It can also outflank (outflank to the rear with Stealth support), bringing all those S5 shots to the side and rear of vehicles, and posing a threat to any armor with EMP grenades. You could also go after backfield objective holders or firepower units like Long Fangs, and take a sizable chunk with just the carbines. In all their forms, they help you put force where you want it. As Markerlighters, they enhance whatever weapons are most important. As scouts or outflankers, they put their own guns where you might not otherwise be able to get them. Regardless, they can switch roles from game to game (in a tournament setting), or even within games as conditions change.

 Jancoran wrote:

wilsjur wrote:
I don't take Pathfinders—I just give my commander a target lock and a drone controller and anywhere from 2 to 12 marker drones.

If that were why Pathfinders were awesome, I'd agree. Butits not why Pathfinders are awesome. I've only fired my Pathfinder markerlights in a total of one game and once in Overwatch in another game. That's it.

What the feth

That is why sane people take markerlights.

You can complete EMP home defence with 9 carbine armed fire warriors. Sure you can't outflank, but if you can't kill the tank first turn it will come to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Razerous wrote:

If that were why Pathfinders were awesome, I'd agree. Butits not why Pathfinders are awesome. I've only fired my Pathfinder markerlights in a total of one game and once in Overwatch in another game. That's it.

There are lots off different, effective, uses of pathfinders.

The fact that you have done this proves the fact rather than shows them to be effective when not using their marker lights.

Well... No offense to your offense, but the fact stands that I have obliterated tank squadrons and Marine units alike with the Pathfinders. Their tanks, which outflank with them, provide them excellent counter protection and their positioning ensures the enemy would be hard pressed tocome assault them. Which leaves only shooting. And with the right Warlord trait and a 3+ cover save, i have found them to be excellent at their jobs.

The Markerlights they carry are nice, but in reality, the Drones and (in my case) Firesight Marksmen, do the Markerlighting. The Pathfinders do a whole lot of killing.

Outflanking is a strategy I used in even 5E for Pathfinders so to see them blossom into the threat they have become in 6E is pretty gratifying.

 Jancoran wrote:
Well... No offense to your offense, but the fact stands that I have obliterated tank squadrons and Marine units alike with the Pathfinders. Their tanks, which outflank with them, provide them excellent counter protection and their positioning ensures the enemy would be hard pressed tocome assault them. Which leaves only shooting. And with the right Warlord trait and a 3+ cover save, i have found them to be excellent at their jobs.

The Markerlights they carry are nice, but in reality, the Drones and (in my case) Firesight Marksmen, do the Markerlighting. The Pathfinders do a whole lot of killing.

Outflanking is a strategy I used in even 5E for Pathfinders so to see them blossom into the threat they have become in 6E is pretty gratifying.

Speaking of which whats your loadout for your pathfinders? do you take the heavy(ish) weapons? im having hard time between rail and ion.

He runs an 8 man squad with all three drones, emp, and 3 railrifles with a devilfish. It ends up almost 290 points.

Really I can't imagine pathfinders outside of support roles. They're too fragile to draw a lot of fire. Their tank is too expensive to act as a shield. It's basically a guard unit that can take 3 special weapons, for twice the cost of a normal guard unit.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
He runs an 8 man squad with all three drones, emp, and 3 railrifles with a devilfish. It ends up almost 290 points.

Really I can't imagine pathfinders outside of support roles. They're too fragile to draw a lot of fire. Their tank is too expensive to act as a shield. It's basically a guard unit that can take 3 special weapons, for twice the cost of a normal guard unit.

Admittedly there special weapons are double shots and can be shot on the move. and there carbines are basically bolters with psy ammo. but god they are fragile which is why i like the idea of reserve protection to attack where it counts. I agree i dislike the devil fish which is still relatively costly.

I actually run 7. but he's close.

And SavageConvoy, you have the annoying habit of clumping points costs together insteadof recognizing that they are in fact TWO units.

The build is 181 points (I think?). They will kill a 230 point assault Squad and then go wreck a vehicle or two while they are at it. I've killed two Hive Tyrants with them in the same game. In MOST games I only lose one of the two units, and sometimes not even that (but Often one). On their own, if you can't reach them with significant shooting, they are fearesome. Even if you do, they go to ground and then use Aun'Va to dust themselves off and drop the survivors.

WITH TWO MARKERLIGHTS (as this apparently needs to be explained to some)

So really when you're dishing out that kinda hurt... Vs T4:
I do 1.77 wounds with the Recon Drone
I do 4.16 wounds with the Railrifles
I do 4.44 wounds with the Carbines
I do 2.81 wounds with the Devilfish+Drones (if you wanna count it)

Against T3, its just...naughty.

Depends on what I'm hitting how many they will save. No one would suggest that this is anything but a blizzard of wounds, I hope.

The units position is the key to its value even were it to be doing less damage. Also, the reality that you really cant charge it even when it has no supporting fire is a big difference between it and other units.

Once it disposes of one unit (and by the way, it has killed entire IG artillery batteries in one go), it can even assault another. Because they will take some attrition after they fire, a tank is an ideal second target but they can just repeat fire or jump in the fish and zoom to contest stuff.

I see a ton of production from them. My last two games at Top Table (won one, lost one) saw the Pathfinders make game breaking differences in the outcome.

All without really any use of Markerlights. but if you;r desperate, oneof the two units can certainly use a Markerlight or two to help out. On Overwatch its nice sometimes to help other units out but such a low percentage play that you're kinda btter off just doing damage if you can.

You have a real bad habit of magically upgrading units without changing the point cost.
BS2 drone gets 4 shots, 1.33 hits, .88 wounds, .296 failed saves.
BS3 pathfinder gets 2 shots, 1 hit, .66 wounds, .22 failed saves.
BS3 rail rifle gets 1 shot, .5 hits, .42 wounds, .28 failed wounds.
Dronex1 gets .296 failed saves
Pathfindersx4 get .88 failed saves
Rail riflesx3 get .84 failed saves.

All without any use of markerlights.

 Jancoran wrote:
I actually run 7. but he's close.

And SavageConvoy, you have the annoying habit of clumping points costs together insteadof recognizing that they are in fact TWO units.

The build is 181 points (I think?). They will kill a 230 point assault Squad and then go wreck a vehicle or two while they are at it. I've killed two Hive Tyrants with them in the same game. In MOST games I only lose one of the two units, and sometimes not even that (but Often one). On their own, if you can't reach them with significant shooting, they are fearesome. Even if you do, they go to ground and then use Aun'Va to dust themselves off and drop the survivors.

So really when you're dishing out that kinda hurt... Vs T4:
I do 1.77 wounds with the Recon Drone
I do 4.16 wounds with the Railrifles
I do 4.44 wounds with the Carbines
I do 2.81 wounds with the Devilfish+Drones (if you wanna count it)

Against T3, its just...naughty.

Depends on what I'm hitting how many they will save. No one would suggest that this is anything but a blizzard of wounds, I hope.

The units position is the key to its value even were it to be doing less damage. Also, the reality that you really cant charge it even when it has no supporting fire is a big difference between it and other units.

Once it disposes of one unit (and by the way, it has killed entire IG artillery batteries in one go), it can even assault another. Because they will take some attrition after they fire, a tank is an ideal second target but they can just repeat fire or jump in the fish and zoom to contest stuff.

I see a ton of production from them. My last two games at Top Table (won one, lost one) saw the Pathfinders make game breaking differences in the outcome.

All without really any use of Markerlights. but if you;r desperate, oneof the two units can certainly use a Markerlight or two to help out. On Overwatch its nice sometimes to help other units out but such a low percentage play that you're kinda btter off just doing damage if you can.

What's kind of math are you using?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517337.page

basically my run down on just about everything in Tau so far. I'm working on the Eldar atm so I should have some favorite combos soon. So much to experiment on! (trying to and failing so far to figure out what's the point to banshees for example)

I don't actually play Tau, but I can tell you that from my time playing against them I've learned that Kroot are actually startlingly good at anti-infantry shooting. I played a guy who used a full Kroot squad with an Ethereal behind an Aegis defense line; they wiped out my Ravenwing contingent all on their own.

Cmdr with CnC, MSS, IA and Puretide joined to a Ion Riptide and 1 Shielded Missile drone. You have a 10 W, T6 unit with a 2+/4++, ignores cover and re-roll almost everything. It's expensive but can take almost anything that is thrown at it and lays down alot of fire. You can reliably lay down a S8 AP2 template everyturn with out gets hot or a huge scatter that ignores cover. So only invul or FnP will save that unit