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FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

Feel free to post how and why you voted, but please DO NOT ENGAGE OTHERS IN DISCUSSIONS/ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE RULES SAY. Please create a separate thread if you feel the urge to have this kind of discussion.



The rules for Enfeeble say:

rulebook page 419 wrote:
Enfeeble is a malediction that targets a single enemy unit within 24". Whilst the power is in effect, the target unit suffers a -1 penalty to both Strength and Toughness, and treats all terrain (even open ground) as difficult terrain.

QUESTION: Can a unit that has had enfeeble cast upon it move through terrain that was classified as impassable at the start of the game?

Example: A unit of Genestealers has been enfeebled on their opponents turn. They try to move and there is a six inch wide power station building, that was determined at the start of the game to be impassible terrain, in front of them. They want to move, and Enfeeble says that they treat all terrain as difficult so they roll their dice and the furthest they get is a 5, so they can move 5 inches. They try to move through the power station and the two players get to discussing it.



OPTION A. Yes they can move through the impassible terrain because they treat all terrain as difficult terrain.


OPTION B. No they can not move through the impassible terrain. They treat all terrain as difficult terrain, but nothing takes the impassible type away from the terrain thus it is impassable and difficult and can still not be moved through.


OPTION C. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

Although strict RAW they treat Impassable Terrain as Difficult, I think we all know where strict RAW leads us. As such I voted B.

I would say that even RAW it is still impassable. Just as a peice of dangerous terrain would remain damsels, or a mysterious forest would remain Mysterious.

Voted option C:

Since Enfeeble just adds the modifier to treat all terrain as difficult, it does not automatically also remove any other modifiers. So it becomes:

Open terrain + Enfeeble = Test for difficult terrain
Difficult terrain + Enfeeble = Test for difficult terrain
Dangerous terrain + Enfeeble = Test for difficult and dangerous terrain
Impassable terrain + Enfeeble = Impassable

Anyway, that's how I would play it.

I'm curious DR - what do you hope to get out of this?

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm curious DR - what do you hope to get out of this?

I want to see how people play it so I know what to expect at an upcoming local tournament.

So this has literally nothing to do with the "treat as" discussion?
Because it has suspicious timing and it's pretty obvious what's intended here... Anyone voting A should have their head examined.

rigeld2 wrote:
So this has literally nothing to do with the "treat as" discussion?
Because it has suspicious timing and it's pretty obvious what's intended here... Anyone voting A should have their head examined.

It does, but since it is a How would you play it poll, and not a RAW poll it does not have to do with RAW necessarily.

 DeathReaper wrote:
It does, but since it is a How would you play it poll, and not a RAW poll it does not have to do with RAW.

FTFY.

If you're trying to use this to equate to the BoD discussion (all treats as should be the same) don't. That's foolish.
I'd rather not have my Flyers zooming around at 36" and turning all they want like a Fast Skimmer.

RAW is clearly wrong in this case, I would put this in that 'their editor needs to be fired' territory.

Crap, I hit the wrong option... ignore 1 point from A and add it to B.

I am just trying to find some consistency.

rigeld2 wrote:
If you're trying to use this to equate to the BoD discussion (all treats as should be the same) don't. That's foolish.
I'd rather not have my Flyers zooming around at 36" and turning all they want like a Fast Skimmer.

Well considering only Zooming flyers can move that far, if you choose Hover you do not have the option to Zoom.

"A Flyer with the Hover type must declare whether it is going to Zoom or Hover before it moves each Movement phase." (81)

So you choose Zoom or Hover, if you chose hover you can not use the Zoom move, as there is no option to do so in the Hover rules.

"If a Flyer Zooms, it has a combat speed of 18" and a cruising speed of 36" (80)

Only Zooming flyers have the option to move 36 inches.

Terrain has multiple types. Weapons do not.

Assault, heavy, rapid fire, melee...

Option B is so poorly written.

Pyrian wrote:
Terrain has multiple types. Weapons do not.

The Psycannon disagrees with you.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
Terrain has multiple types. Weapons do not.

The Psycannon disagrees with you.

The Psycannons has a special, unique, rule.
You're inventing one to support your argument for Bolters.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
Terrain has multiple types. Weapons do not.

The Psycannon disagrees with you.

The Psycannons has a special, unique, rule.
You're inventing one to support your argument for Bolters.

He said Weapons do not have multiple types, which is demonstrably untrue.

But this thread was about Enfeeble, so I am sorry for the Off Topic response.

Please lets keep this about Enfeeble.

There's not much to say. The consensus is pretty clear, even the one dude who voted A won't explain why. I can't help but wonder if it's DeathReaper

 BryllCream wrote:
There's not much to say. The consensus is pretty clear, even the one dude who voted A won't explain why. I can't help but wonder if it's DeathReaper

Actually didn't one guy say he accidentally hit A and we should ignore it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JinxDragon wrote:

Crap, I hit the wrong option... ignore 1 point from A and add it to B.

Here it is

 DeathReaper wrote:
He said Weapons do not have multiple types, which is demonstrably untrue.

I should have specified profile, yet I would like to point out that the exception, in this case, "proves the rule" (as much as any exception can).

 DeathReaper wrote:
But this thread was about Enfeeble...

Nobody believes you.

 BryllCream wrote:
There's not much to say. The consensus is pretty clear, even the one dude who voted A won't explain why. I can't help but wonder if it's DeathReaper

There is RAW proof here BTW.

"Note that, as part of their move through difficult terrain, models can move through walls, closed doors and windows, and all similarly solid obstacles, unless the players have agreed that a certain wall or obstacle is impassable." Page 90 BRB, Moving Through Difficult Terrain.

Pyrian wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
But this thread was about Enfeeble...

Nobody believes you.

They should, as the OP is clearly only about Enfeeble.

Why would the thread be about anything other than the OP and the poll attached to it?

Option B. Just because you treat it as difficult does not negate any other feature of the terrain.

SJ

Good catch there Abandon.

Even treating impassable terrain as difficult terrain doesn't allow you to move through it. Within the rules for Difficult terrain is the limitation that prevents you doing so. As the impassable terrain has been flagged as impassable at the start of the game, it is easy to argue that both sides have agreed it can not be passed through as per the difficult terrain rules. In this case you can still follow all the rules for impassable terrain while treating it as difficult, because the same limitations exist in both rule sets.

You can still make the argument around dangerous terrain though, but it isn't as extreme as you would of liked. Unless said terrain happens to be very thin, you would still be ending your turn in dangerous terrain. That means any following movements, when enfeeble is not in affect, would still inflict dangerous terrain tests. It clearly is an oversight, which is why you will find nearly everyone pointing out it is an editorial error, but no where near as far reaching as the argument of 'passing through solid matter' which you tried to put forth.

Acrimonious wrote:
I would say that even RAW it is still impassable. Just as a peice of dangerous terrain would remain damsels, or a mysterious forest would remain Mysterious.

exactly, nothing overides the impassible part at all,

terrain can be both difficult and dangerous, there are several examples of this, no reason why it cannot also be impassible dangerous.

 easysauce wrote:

terrain can be both difficult and dangerous

Actually the rules state that all dangerous terrain follows the rules for difficult terrain. Do you have an example of something stated as both difficult and dangerous? (genuine question)

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

terrain can be both difficult and dangerous

Actually the rules state that all dangerous terrain follows the rules for difficult terrain. Do you have an example of something stated as both difficult and dangerous? (genuine question)

"Rivers, lakes and pools are always at least difficult terrain. Some units, such as Jump units, also treat rivers and lakes as dangerous terrain under certain circumstances." (103)

Rivers and lakes can be difficult and dangerous terrain to Jump units in certain circumstances.

Which isn't even remotely the same thing.

rigeld2 wrote:
Which isn't even remotely the same thing.

I was answering his question, there is terrain that is both difficult and dangerous.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Which isn't even remotely the same thing.

I was answering his question, there is terrain that is both difficult and dangerous.

No, here isn't.
There is difficult terrain that specific units treat as dangerous, but that's not the same thing.