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I know I'm a little behind with this thread but personally I don't see the point in the wraithknight.

It's massive and doesn't do much that a wraithlord cant (i know it has some more powerful weapons). I just feel like the heavy support section of the codex already had more than enough options.

I just feel like its a pointless addition.

I hope the other inevitable big models actually serve some purpose in future.
Like the Riptide which I personally thought was a nice addition and clearly was designed to operate as one of two of the army's AA options (among other things).

I've taken the Suncannon variation twice now and it has utterly wrecked face both times for me. it's expensive but it's nice to have something to take firepower away from your other units.

I tried the standard loadout once and it massively underachieved for me.

Extra options are never a bad thing. Seriously would you rather have a codex with some unnecessary options that could be taken for a change of pace or a codex with only one option?

You'd be wrong. The wraithknight is scary.

happy to be wrong btw. Just seemed a bit meh

Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise, but youll never see a lucky lascannon taking him out in one shot. The heavy 3 blast weapon can wipe a squad off the board quite easily to be honest. With a little luck (or scatter laser twin linkage) your to-wound dice pile will be a nice handful of "see your squad next time". The extra upgrades just make it that much more flexible. 2 i would imagine would be a pain in the rear for a lot of armies to take down efficiently.

Rez

Rezyn wrote:
Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise, but youll never see a lucky lascannon taking him out in one shot. The heavy 3 blast weapon can wipe a squad off the board quite easily to be honest. With a little luck (or scatter laser twin linkage) your to-wound dice pile will be a nice handful of "see your squad next time". The extra upgrades just make it that much more flexible. 2 i would imagine would be a pain in the rear for a lot of armies to take down efficiently.

Rez

I had the exact same feeling after facing a Riptide a few times. Too many wounds and too much Toughness. Vehicles, even Landraiders *feel* easier to take out. One big gun with one big shot and it's down... the Mecha Generation of MCs however take everyone focusing it down.

I love mine. Wraithcannons all the way. Its a solution to tau riptides in a way nothing else in the codex works. I can push the riptides around for 2 turns or so, forcing it away from the rest of his units to remove the intercept threat and set up my own side of the board. Most if the time it is working in concert with another assault squad to take out enemy melee forces. My striking scorp exarch will challenge out a warboss in a nob biker squad (and die) while the wraithknight knocks 2-3 bikers out of the way and forces a ld that will probably make the squad run and be caught.

I find running wraitknights in pairs works even better. One an arty can often deal with, but very few can deal with 2. Its one of the few durable assault units in the codex that can go toe to toe with deathstars from other armies effectively.

2 Wraithlords is 240 points base plus weapons. You are lookng at ~300 points for both. Your wraithlords are S9 and are firing what, 4 S8 at best? Therefore my wraithknight is cheaper, stronger, just as tough, better AT loadout, does not lose strength at 3 wounds dealt, and is jump so it moves twice as fast. Why would you take wraithlords over a wraithknight?

The maneuverability alone makes the Wraithknight worth it over the Wraithlord, not to mention the option to get an inv save.

In the Iyanden book you can make them your Warlord! At that point, they are an HQ choice and frees you up for 3 other Heavy Support Options.

Plus you get awesome Warlord abilities for free!

You can also take. Spiritseer Council, which can heal them, and make them hit & wound better.

Daner0023 wrote:
In the Iyanden book you can make them your Warlord! At that point, they are an HQ choice and frees you up for 3 other Heavy Support Options.

Plus you get awesome Warlord abilities for free!

You can also take. Spiritseer Council, which can heal them, and make them hit & wound better.

Really? I don't recall it saying they become HQ.

It is good option if your having problems with keeping a seer or autarch alive. The knight will surive longer most of the time . In some situations you can also bait your opponent in to trying to get kill the warlord , which will leave your wave serpents and their cargo untouched. But it is true that unlike the riptide , it is well possible to have an eldar army without a knight.

They aren't an HQ choice, they're just a warlord.

I feel like it makes Wraithlords pretty redundant. I don't think it's an auto-include unit, but I don't think it's bad either. It's just another option, and more options are generally a good thing.

It's an option that's actually worthwhile as an option.

That's the best sort of option, otherwise you get like Mutilators and Possessed.

Want to make your wraith knight unkillable? Get enough psykers to give it an improvement to it's armor save, conceal, and fortune. Although just two out of three will make it virtually immune to dakka. (You try killing a six wound MC with a rerollable 2+ save or a rerollable 3+ cover save with just shooting).

 Brother SRM wrote:
I feel like it makes Wraithlords pretty redundant. I don't think it's an auto-include unit, but I don't think it's bad either. It's just another option, and more options are generally a good thing.

I agree. GW should have made the Spiritseer turn Lords into Elites.

How would that change anything? Is the elite section that bad, and the HS section that loaded?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How would that change anything? Is the elite section that bad, and the HS section that loaded?

Frankly, yes. Eldar have a ridiculous amount of good HS choices and very few elite choices (Scorpions basically) Fire Dragons arguably aren't needed as much any more, Banshees are pants and Wraith units are generally taken as troops with a Spiritseer when taken.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
How would that change anything? Is the elite section that bad, and the HS section that loaded?

On the contrary, the Eldar elites section still has goodies. And the wraithguard almost always leave it to free up space for other goodies like Fire dragons and striking scorpions. While not as needed as they used to be, Fire Dragons are still very, very hurty.

Rezyn wrote:
Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise,

It won't in 6E, your perception is correct.


The Wraithknight is a solid unit, it's just not auto-take good. It's fast enough to get good firing angles and get into CC with chosen targets (or evade deathstars), it's resilient enough to survive a lot of firepower being dumped into it, and can engage pretty much any kind of target.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Rezyn wrote:
Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise,

It won't in 6E, your perception is correct.


The Wraithknight is a solid unit, it's just not auto-take good. It's fast enough to get good firing angles and get into CC with chosen targets (or evade deathstars), it's resilient enough to survive a lot of firepower being dumped into it, and can engage pretty much any kind of target.

And it benefits insanely well from the buffs the Eldar can place on it with their witchery.

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Rezyn wrote:
Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise,

It won't in 6E, your perception is correct.


The Wraithknight is a solid unit, it's just not auto-take good. It's fast enough to get good firing angles and get into CC with chosen targets (or evade deathstars), it's resilient enough to survive a lot of firepower being dumped into it, and can engage pretty much any kind of target.

And it benefits insanely well from the buffs the Eldar can place on it with their witchery.

Just wanted to add, a fortune wraith knight... *mother of god expression*

 cormadepanda wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Rezyn wrote:
Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise,

It won't in 6E, your perception is correct.


The Wraithknight is a solid unit, it's just not auto-take good. It's fast enough to get good firing angles and get into CC with chosen targets (or evade deathstars), it's resilient enough to survive a lot of firepower being dumped into it, and can engage pretty much any kind of target.

And it benefits insanely well from the buffs the Eldar can place on it with their witchery.

Just wanted to add, a fortune wraith knight... *mother of god expression*

Fortune on a wraith knight with conceal and/or protect.

Have fun killing a T8 6 wound monstrous creature with a rerollable 2+ armor save or 3+ cover save.

 Kain wrote:

 cormadepanda wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Rezyn wrote:
Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise,

It won't in 6E, your perception is correct.


The Wraithknight is a solid unit, it's just not auto-take good. It's fast enough to get good firing angles and get into CC with chosen targets (or evade deathstars), it's resilient enough to survive a lot of firepower being dumped into it, and can engage pretty much any kind of target.

And it benefits insanely well from the buffs the Eldar can place on it with their witchery.

Just wanted to add, a fortune wraith knight... *mother of god expression*

Fortune on a wraith knight with conceal and/or protect.

Have fun killing a T8 6 wound monstrous creature with a rerollable 2+ armor save or 3+ cover save.

Ok you keep making a mistake. The runes of battle table all explicitly target the caster, you can not improve the Knight's armor or cast the cover save boost on it. It targets the caster.

Through independent character rules the power is transferred to the unit he joins. An IC can't join a MC.
Please stop posting this miss leading information. No hard feelings.

The only power that works on a target model is the renewer. Restore wounds to your knight. I do this a lot it is beastly.

 Kain wrote:

Have fun killing a T8 6 wound monstrous creature with a rerollable 2+ armor save or 3+ cover save.

Stop this. You can't cast these Spiritseer spells on Wraithknights. You've said it about 3 times in the thread so far.

For content, Standard loadout all the way. Heavy wraithcannons are super useful in a world of Str6 and 7 weaponry.

 cormadepanda wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 cormadepanda wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Rezyn wrote:
Ive fought it twice now and they are an utter pain to destroy. I think the T8 is much more durable than AV12 tanks. I know mathhammer might prove otherwise,

It won't in 6E, your perception is correct.


The Wraithknight is a solid unit, it's just not auto-take good. It's fast enough to get good firing angles and get into CC with chosen targets (or evade deathstars), it's resilient enough to survive a lot of firepower being dumped into it, and can engage pretty much any kind of target.

And it benefits insanely well from the buffs the Eldar can place on it with their witchery.

Just wanted to add, a fortune wraith knight... *mother of god expression*

Fortune on a wraith knight with conceal and/or protect.

Have fun killing a T8 6 wound monstrous creature with a rerollable 2+ armor save or 3+ cover save.

Ok you keep making a mistake. The runes of battle table all explicitly target the caster, you can not improve the Knight's armor or cast the cover save boost on it. It targets the caster.

Through independent character rules the power is transferred to the unit he joins. An IC can't join a MC.
Please stop posting this miss leading information. No hard feelings.

The only power that works on a target model is the renewer. Restore wounds to your knight. I do this a lot it is beastly.

Ah. Gotcha.

Wait...

Gonna have a talk with Zophia.

The Wraithknight is actually really good. I think a lot of the people that are saying it's bad, haven't actually played with, or against one.

The stats on paper really turned me off at first, then I started actually using it.

I use the Default Loadout, as I find the Wraithcannons a much better fit in my list, and I prefer it over the Suncannon/Scatter config.

The Wraithknight has never failed to make it's points back, in excess. It has such a huge range of targets available, it's unreal. You just have to know when to use it's shooting, and when to use it's cc abilities.

It's even better with the Iyanden supplement, making it the Warlord and benefitting from the Iyanden Warlord chart is really really good.

Well my wife was pulling a fast one over me all this time.

...Should I feel bad about this?

MY armies has some ways of dealing with it thankfully i have plenty of poison weapons and such.