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We know what the Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Adeptus Arbites, etc. use, but what does the common person have for self defense? Are they allowed to have guns or just bladed weapons? Maybe just a wooden club or bare hands?

Tears and crying.

There faith in the God Emperor will protect them from:
The Breeze.
A light SunShower.
Being publicly executed by Inquisitors.
Being a person with a purpose.
Nothing.

It isn't like they have any weapons that will be worth a damn anyways. Auto pistols, stub guns, knives, sharp bits of wood etc won't do a thing against any of the armies in 40k anyway.

Space Marines laugh at bullets, Necrons don't care about them, you won't hit an eldar, Orkses won't be put down by your punie gun, you might hit chaos but they'd probably enjoy it, Tau wouldn't give you reason to fire (DIPLOMACY!) and sisters would just burn your house down. Citizens can only protect themselves from other citizens.

And if you're shooting nid's, its already too late.

Based on Necromunda and Dark Heresy, many civilians are armed to the teeth by normal real world standards depending on planet.

However, by WK40 standards, they're not much. For the most part, they have guns, armour, and knives that are significantly below what the Imperial Guard get. IIRC, a lasgun in Dark Heresy is actually near end-game equipment, and flak vests are upper-end equipment too.

That would vary from world to world.

Hostile death world with lots of dangerous predators? Citizens would likely have firearms of some kind to protect themselves and their famalies.

Backwater tribal world that's just joined the Imperium? Citizens will probably have bows and such, since they'd still need to hunt and such until they got fully modernised.

Urbanised Shrine World? Doubtful that the average citizen will be armed. The Arbites, PDF ect. will certainly be well armed, and the ruling government won't want any risk of armed citizens making trouble.

Of course, on any world and regardless of that planet's laws, it's probably possible for a citizen to get ahold of a weapon if they know the right people.

It depends on both the sources you're looking at (conflicting material and individual interpretations) as well as the individual planet (feudal world vs hive, local laws and degree of governmental control over the populace).

Going by Necromunda and Inquisitor, even the Space Marines would struggle pacifying a hab block full of rebellious gangers. At least until the artillery/orbital strikes hit.

Troike wrote:Urbanised Shrine World? Doubtful that the average citizen will be armed. The Arbites, PDF ect. will certainly be well armed, and the ruling government won't want any risk of armed citizens making trouble.

Except for the Frateris Militia, ofc.

Regarding Necromunda, it is a special case, IIRC. The world itself is rich with resources and a powerhouse of industry, explaining how you've got gang members waltzing around with plasma weapons. And the Imperial authorities can't go and clean it all up becuase the world is too valuable.

 Lynata wrote:

Troike wrote:Urbanised Shrine World? Doubtful that the average citizen will be armed. The Arbites, PDF ect. will certainly be well armed, and the ruling government won't want any risk of armed citizens making trouble.

Except for the Frateris Militia, ofc.

OT, but this has been bugging me for a while. Weren't the those guys banned under the Decree Passive? Or do they get around that somehow?

Troike wrote:Regarding Necromunda, it is a special case, IIRC. The world itself is rich with resources and a powerhouse of industry, explaining how you've got gang members waltzing around with plasma weapons. And the Imperial authorities can't go and clean it all up becuase the world is too valuable.

Hmm, I'd have to read up on it again, but I was under the impression that this was a case for many hive worlds - in that they wouldn't grow as much if they were not industrial powerhouses. The amount of raw materials alone that goes into the construction of a proper hive must be tremendous, not to mention the labour. For another example, Armageddon was extremely industrialised as well.

The plasma weapons thing I see similar to bolt weapons - it's fairly non-standard, just some people are rich/influential enough to still get their hands on either. On Necromunda at least, bolt weapons are a sign of status ... not just for Imperials (as is probably the case everywhere), but also crime lords and their lieutenants/favourites.

Troike wrote:OT, but this has been bugging me for a while. Weren't the those guys banned under the Decree Passive? Or do they get around that somehow?

The Frateris Militia don't count as a "standing" army under direct Ecclesiarchal supervision but an impromptu gathering of the faithful taking up arms in defense of their lord the God-Emperor and the state-sanctioned church.
Needless to say, there's a huge "grey area" where some permanent militias are obviously connected to and influenced by the local clergy, such as when they start playing bodyguards for individual Preachers, but ultimately they're still just "armed rabble", and whilst there are some interesting stories about Cardinals purging entire worlds from heresy/mutation with their help, many clerics refrain from attempting to mobilise such formations out of a (very justified) fear of losing control of them. Historically, Frateris Militia, once stirred into religious frenzy, don't just stop and disband as soon as a crusade's goal has been reached, but rather continue to terrorise whatever area they're currently occupying.

The Frateris Militia, however, is also one of the reasons for the Ordo Hereticus continueing to carefully watch certain popular clerics, even more than the Sisters (who at least police the Ecclesiarchy themselves, in spite of their subordination).

The 2E SoB Codex has a good explanation on how it works out, if you're interested.

As I recall from the background in my old Rogue Trader rulebook every free citizen on civilized worlds will usually carry at least a large knife. It's a weapon and a sign of his status as a free citizen. Whether he knows how to use it or not is an entirely different question.

But in general anyone with any sort of status will have a weapon, if only for the looks. A gold-plated lasgun makes for good conversation and shows off your wealth too!

It seems there is nothing out of the ordinary for a citizen to at least carry a sword or knife. Those who can afford them might be able to get stub guns or perhaps even autoguns. Weapon control laws seem to be either non-existent, or totally impractical to enforce.

Stuff you'd normally expect to see in the hands of military forces, such as lasguns, would be much rarer. It seems things like that, if they're going to be used by civilians, are used by the rich or those with the criminal links to get their hands on them.

I think it'd be really hard to come down with a general assessment, just because there can be so many different factors influencing on how it works on every single world. On one planet, the government may crack down mercilessly on anyone wearing guns or even blades and on others it can be a cultural taboo, yet just a few hundred lightyears further you've got a place where people even use bullets as a currency. Obviously, the techlevel will also pay a huge role, with some worlds not even being capable of producing las weapons whereas on others they are PDF standard issue and available on the civilian market.

And even though space travel is (in most iterations of the setting) heavily limited, there will always be a certain degree of propagation by import and second hand use. Just think of the Imperial Guard regiments who get to garrison a newly conquered world and ultimately demobilise to become civilians. Perhaps some of the arms and equipment will be repurposed for the PDF following in their wake, but I'd assume that at least a fair quantity of gear will also become heirlooms passed on from generation to generation (and at some point stolen or even sold for a bit of coin), at the very least for all the officers who, depending on their rank, join the various levels of nobility.

I would guess, kind of like modern day US on most civilised and frontier worlds. In cities you will see smaller weapons like autopistols and perhaps the odd autorifle. In the frontier/agricultural areas you will see heavier weapons, long rifles, lasguns. Only the wealthy would have bolt pistols and likely it would be more of a status symbol than somethign they use all the time. You probably could go an lifetime without seeing a plasma weapon except if your home world becomes a warzone.

Like someone said, there would be mass amounts of weapons, mostly pistols and such, but nothing that would really do more than inconvenience invading troops or law enforcement except in the most hard core situations like Necromunda.

I have to side with the idea that it varies widely from world to world. Remember that the Imperium encompasses hive worlds, feral worlds, and everything in between. Death worlders will carry the heaviest weaponry available at virtually all times due to the hostile environment. Inhabitants of the more pleasant planets (Shrine worlds, Garden worlds, etc.) might have swords as a display of status but nothing really useful in combat. Hive worlders would range from the scrounged but capable arsenal of gangers, to the high-end gear used by the nobility and their personal guard, to the odd shiv or illegal handgun rarely possessed by the wretched masses. Feral worlders would of course have whatever combination of local primitive weaponry and scavenged offworld tech they could lay hands on.

Edit: There are also no doubt cultures where weapons are ubiquitous for cultural rather than practical reasons (e.g. the ceremonial daggers carried by Sikhs IRL).

The Emperor helps those who help themselves...

Keep in mind every world is responsible for its own defense, and that trickles down to every citizen. The Imperium does not admire peace, peace is just a time to prepare for the next war. If there's no war, then rival sects, clans, houses, gangs etc go after each other. The Imperium is probably a lot like North Korea (or South for that matter) everyone, EVERYONE has had some military training even it's just once a month drills in the factory yard. And everyone has seen violence first hand.

We all know what good loving Christians are capable of, now imagine what our world would look like if Jesus had roamed the world with a flaming sword in hand killing the unbelievers

There may be worlds with strict gun laws and mostly unarmed civilians but they'd be rare.

To once again blow my own horn... I wrote an article on civilian life which talks a lot more about this.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Civilian_Life_in_Warhammer_40%2C000_AD

Going with Necromunda is a bit difficult, it's based in the underhive crime world, where there are arbiters, but they don't enforce much of the spires laws, and the traders are generally the law makers.

However, Lazguns and especially Lazpistols are common, partially due to the fact that the ammo packs are so easy to recharge. You'd also find as said knifes as status symbols, standard projectile pistols, shot guns, even Uzi type weapons, but within the spire, above the underhive it's supposed to be a lot more lawful, people slip into the underhive due to committing crime, or being unable to pay off debts.

I'd suggest Lazpistols would be more common than has been suggested so far,with nearly every manufactorium world making thousands upon thousands of them, and the rechargeable nature of the ammo packs making them cheaper to maintain and use than a normal gun (shown in Necromunda by Laz weapons having a 2+ ammo roll, and normal guns having a 4+)

Only my two cents

The reason I think weaponry would be illegal on Hive Worlds and fairly scarce among the majority of the population is the Imperium's need for control. Most Hive worlders live in absolutely appalling conditions, and the privileged and powerful aren't the 1%, they're more like the .00001%. As many threats as there are to the Imperium, revolt from below is the most likely (and immediately obvious) danger. An armed populace could overthrow their masters in an instant. Propaganda can only go so far in keeping the masses pacified, so the ruling class need a monopoly on firepower to be able to put down rebellions quickly and brutally. Thus I think it's likely that weaponry is illegal, with harsh penalties for violation, for the average Hive inhabitant.

The Black Library novels that deal with life among the citizenry seems to indicate that weapons can be fairly widespread among normal people.

I think that the understanding is that the Adeptus Arbites have enough firepower to quash any minor uprisings. And there's nothing preventing the Imperial Guard from being called in to stop a larger uprising. No matter how many people in a Hive World rise up, the Imperium has enough firepower to put them back in their place (even if that place turns out to be beneath a cloud of chemical ash that used to be the population of their planet).

I think it would be similar to what civilians have in the States... automatic handguns, other slug-throwers and what have you. Lasguns may be common among the Guard, but even the lowliest Guard regiment is still a standing army of professional soldiers destined for interstellar warfare. Better-equipped PDF troops would have them, but I doubt that most planetary governments would want civilians to have widespread access to the same gear. I'm not saying that civilians can't get a hold of lasguns at all, but PredaKhaine said it best: they're usually just defending themselves against other civilians. Even a lasgun is overkill against an unarmored human.

 Lynata wrote:
I think it'd be really hard to come down with a general assessment, just because there can be so many different factors influencing on how it works on every single world.

I agree. I think it's a common mistake made by fans, trying to overgeneralise the Imperium. There's so many variables involved in determining a world's various characteristics. The best we can do is look at the "official line" touted by organisations like the Ecclesiarchy or Arbites, but remember that even with that there can be exceptions.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
To once again blow my own horn... I wrote an article on civilian life which talks a lot more about this.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Civilian_Life_in_Warhammer_40%2C000_AD

How come you've said that the Imperium is explicitly patriachial? It's really not. There's matriarchal worlds (there's one in the Cain novels, for example), female Inquisitors and even female High Lords of Terra. And of course, there's plenty of female fighting forces (female IG regiments, SoBs ect.)

Newborn start with a Laspistol, because of weight and ease of use

 Troike wrote:
How come you've said that the Imperium is explicitly patriachial? It's really not.

Indeed. I could probably go in to a five page rant on the topic, but suffice it to say, I think the idea that the Imperium somehow doesn't oppress men is wrong.



To get more on topic, keep in mind that there are plenty of weapons FAR less effective than a lasgun.

Of course they oppress men, the IoM is a pretty oppressive entity, all things considered.

Actually now that I think of it, I recommend looking up Gunmetal City's fluff in Dark Heresy - The Inquisitor's Handbook. Shows a good example of a world with lots of guns even at the lower levels. But that's not to say every world is like that.

 Anfauglir wrote:
Of course they oppress men, the IoM is a pretty oppressive entity, all things considered.

My point was more that the Imperium, as a general rule, isn't said by GW to make a distinction between male and female. It doesn't care. You're just a number either way.

If, for example, they're conscripting people for a colony on a newly captured world, they'll round up a hundred million colonists and assume that, because roughly half of the population is male and female, respectively, that this means they rounded up fifty million men and fifty million women, when this may not necessarily be literally true even if it might be statistically probable.

I think the firearms that civilians used was covered by Necromunda.

IIRC, the most common armanents available to the gangs are stub guns, auto guns and las weapons.

I think there was a piece of fluff in Dark Heresy about a guy who became king of a feral world because he had a lasgun...

^ I just thought of Planet of the Apes (remake), where they freak out over that little pistol, and General Thade fancies himself a badass for figuring out how to pull the trigger. That might also explain why he became a prominent leader in Ape history once Marky Mark gets back to alternate-future Earth.

I expect the average imperial citizen would have a knife, some random items can be improvised as weapon and probaly an auto gun or the rare lasgun.

1 Tactical marine could probably kill 2000 citizens without breaking a sweat

Or they could end up being killed by one citizen with a pressure cooker bomb before they ever knew what was coming.

Let's not get too deep in to the usual marine-glorification rants.