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This is a sister thread to another one I posted, and vaguely related...
/Rant
The current Necron codex is awful. The lopsided rules were completely fine in 5th edition, but in 6th they've gone from decent to ridiculous. For example...
Several vehicles went from Skimmers (Slightly more agile tanks) to Fliers (Tanks that are all but invulnerable to lots of shooting, incredibly fast, and can take out other fliers) For no points cost increase.
Mindshackle Scarabs are ridiculous with the new challenge rules. It's a free "Your character is unable to do anything" button now that you can direct it against specific models.
Hull Points make the gauss weapons far deadlier. 3-4 6s are guaranteed to kill any vehicle.

These free buffs made an already good codex simply annoying to play against... I don't always mind playing against more powerful armies or even spam lists, but it seems like the new rulebook just gave Necrons all the edges... So am I crazy or is this something that everyone else is already just aware of?

Geez, it almost seems like Ward was writing the new 6th edition rules at the same time he was writing the Newcron codex and made sure that they would take full advantage of the shiny new edition better than anyone else, doesn't it?!

Yes, Necrons are the best adapted army to 6th and a lot of their special rules are meant to ignore some of 6th's main disadvantages.



While it's highly annoying, it's nothing new really, and honestly, the first 5 hardback 6th codices are all pretty damn good in terms of their overall balance to each other & the game itself. Sure there's a couple gaffs, (triple Helturkeys is really mean on MEQ's & Tau can be downright unfun), but overall 6th is in a better state than the complete gaked-up mess that was 5th edition's ultimate game of 'uber power creep.

I will say though, after seeing the last two Fantasy books that both have a certain author's name on them, I really hope he doesn't touch any 40k books... (wishful thinking, I know )

Well, time to post the traditional reaction to whine threads:



2 vehicles went from skimmer to flyer. That is hardly several. They are also AV11 and have a limited range of movement, meaning that if you are clever you can stay out of their kill zone. Other races got some of their skimmers changed to flyers with no points change as well, such as the Orks.

If you accept a challenge with an Ld7 character, you deserve to get mindshackled.

Gauss weapons still need a six to do anything, and that six will not turn up that often. Vehicles can benefit from cover saves a bit more easily now.

Well next time bring a better list, and do not weep when you loose a game to a player who simply outplayed & out built your list

4 Gauss's kill a Land Raider..
But you need 24 hits for that, that are 36 shots!

MSS is so easy to counter :') Just run somewhere else with the character.

In your other (related) post, you stated your Necron opponent used nothing but warriors and royal court members with MSS. No fliers, no ghost ark shenanigans, no wraith-wing, no tesla, no Cron Air, heck not even Imotekh with re-rolling crypteks.

If 80 warriors and 4 MSS got you this riled up, what's going to happen when you face some of the Necrons' actual dirty tricks?

Experiment 626 wrote:
Geez, it almost seems like Ward was writing the new 6th edition rules at the same time he was writing the Newcron codex and made sure that they would take full advantage of the shiny new edition better than anyone else, doesn't it?!

Yes, Necrons are the best adapted army to 6th and a lot of their special rules are meant to ignore some of 6th's main disadvantages.



While it's highly annoying, it's nothing new really, and honestly, the first 5 hardback 6th codices are all pretty damn good in terms of their overall balance to each other & the game itself. Sure there's a couple gaffs, (triple Helturkeys is really mean on MEQ's & Tau can be downright unfun), but overall 6th is in a better state than the complete gaked-up mess that was 5th edition's ultimate game of 'uber power creep.

I will say though, after seeing the last two Fantasy books that both have a certain author's name on them, I really hope he doesn't touch any 40k books... (wishful thinking, I know )

Considering he's not the only one who wrote it, the other codex authors who actually wrote FOR 6th should've taken advantage, aside from Tau. Phil Kelly seems like he wants to continue writing for 4th edition, as with the "Chaos" update shows.

This is why at my group you bring your list first.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


If 80 warriors and 4 MSS got you this riled up, what's going to happen when you face some of the Necrons' actual dirty tricks?

Rage quit and reroll necrons obviously.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
In your other (related) post, you stated your Necron opponent used nothing but warriors and royal court members with MSS. No fliers, no ghost ark shenanigans, no wraith-wing, no tesla, no Cron Air, heck not even Imotekh with re-rolling crypteks.

If 80 warriors and 4 MSS got you this riled up, what's going to happen when you face some of the Necrons' actual dirty tricks?

I actually would like an answer to this. I read your other thread, made a comment there. How would have you reacted if he brought an all flyer list, or a REAL cheasy army?

Now seeing that you made 2 threads for the same topic, it seems like you have some sour grapes for loosing a plastic toy soldier game with a really good guy. Don't people play for fun anymore? OR is your version of fun is when you win only? Next time make some "pew pew" noises and remember to have fun.

Also what would happen if you floored your opponent? How would you feel if he called You TFG? How would you feel? You are almost making your opponent look like he is the bad guy for playing a not optimized Necron list.

Necrons will obliterate you if you play into their hands, which is why you defeat them with movement and tactics. They have weaknesses, take advantage of them.

I'm struggling to see the purposes behind these posts. Seriously, how old are you? Your opponent was polite, friendly and a good sport. He did not cheese you into the ground. What exactly are you complaining about? If you can't handle this then maybe 40k isn't the game for you.

Stop whining and start playing Necrons, I think!

I understand the guy may have been a bit of a sore and misguided when he posted the two threads. But honestly, I think some should give him some slack. It's a hard lesson to understand that you make mistakes in the game and that sometimes it's not factors you have no control over. He made the thread right after an embarassing loss and just posted too quickly. It happens. What's important is that he takes it as a learning experience instead of having the embarassment rubbed in his face.

lets all live by the example we're trying to impart. Stop the trolling guys, dude mighta just been venting. If he's young he'll grow up and if he's not... well he can figure things out.

peace it up guys. Games are games for a reason

First rule of Warhammer

Have fun...

Waaaghpower wrote:
This is a sister thread to another one I posted, and vaguely related...
/Rant
The current Necron codex is awful. The lopsided rules were completely fine in 5th edition, but in 6th they've gone from decent to ridiculous. For example...
Several vehicles went from Skimmers (Slightly more agile tanks) to Fliers (Tanks that are all but invulnerable to lots of shooting, incredibly fast, and can take out other fliers) For no points cost increase.
Mindshackle Scarabs are ridiculous with the new challenge rules. It's a free "Your character is unable to do anything" button now that you can direct it against specific models.
Hull Points make the gauss weapons far deadlier. 3-4 6s are guaranteed to kill any vehicle.

These free buffs made an already good codex simply annoying to play against... I don't always mind playing against more powerful armies or even spam lists, but it seems like the new rulebook just gave Necrons all the edges... So am I crazy or is this something that everyone else is already just aware of?

Doesn't matter wha the codex is, someone is going to complain. If it isn't CronAir, it's Tau, or Slaanesh, or Mephiston (who i hate and will always hate) and the parade moves on.

Here's the thing: I never ACTUALLy met a list I can't beat. Not ever. I know when you lose a lot to something it FEELs like the codex is a win button bu heres news that may help: YOU needto change YOUR force SLIGHTLY every time something new comes along. and you need to CHANe how you FIGHT slightly with each new thing. We aren't talking wholsale changes, but I mean I kinda grow annoyedby the propensity for people to blame a codex instead of jus changing what they are doing.

Couple things tjhat counter ALL lists: speed. Have more of it. Barrages: Have mnore of it.

I have found that tese are two changes that REALLY made a difference in the various armies an they didn't require a $700 upgrade package to get it done.

YERS, you may have to get an Aegis line. You might HAVE to buy a flyer too, but really a couple changes in any army AND...AND a change to how you fight will solve this.

Think of it like a puzzle.

Every army has strengths, you must understand these strengths to find the weakness.

For instance, orks are gak at anti-armour, and can get krumped pretty quick by tau.

Anyway, the main point of playing is to have fun, the game is only 1/3 of the wargame hobby (painting and modelling, respectively)

What you sound like is someone who only wants to win and probably only plays internet lists like a min/maxing manchild

Well, to me the game is 9/10th of the hobby.
Painting and modelling is just a way to get to the game.
But winning, that is only a small part of it for me.

I have an absolute gakload of miniatures that is constantly expanding, so getting on top of the huge amount of unmodelled and unpainted miniatures is a big part of warhams for me.

Honestly, outside of my first few small games. I haven't won any game except maybe one.

Losing is just as fun as winning. Even if I have to buy the first round... I still get to drink and poke at my buddy for bringing a cheese list.

To be fair, as noted, Necrons are still probably the army best adapted to 6th edition, even being a 5E codex. They can be very frustrating, especially as they either aren't affected by lots of stuff that was toned down in other armies, or take better advantage of new mechanics, or both (for example...HP's). Where other armies tend to force they're way to being good (DA for example, being able to just drop down all their terminators from reserve on the turn of their choice, and with rerolls to hit as they enter, essentially gaining an alpha strike advantage regardless of who goes 1st), the Necrons are really well adapted to the core rules (e.g. quantum shielding makes them less vulnerable to HP hits while gauss strips HP's well, Tesla weapons adapted to killing flyers and overwatch very well, etc.)

That said, they're beatable, and have some notable weaknesses depend on what they're running.

It's really not the Necrons fault that the game changed to play to their strengths. Necrons have glanced anything on a 6 since third edition. Heck, until the newest codex they wounded anything on a 6 too, making them adept at taking on 'nids as well.

Before they gained 'glance anything on a 6' they could penetrate AV 18 with a gauss flayer before the tank had any scarabs (-3 av per scarab) on it.

I like how the op makes the thread, complains a little bit, gets called out, then says nothing...

Man, he's not even played against my awesome Necron AV13 wall army with Imotek making it night fighting for almost the entire game.

I have made plenty of people hate Necrons with that army.... XD

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's really not the Necrons fault that the game changed to play to their strengths. Necrons have glanced anything on a 6 since third edition. Heck, until the newest codex they wounded anything on a 6 too, making them adept at taking on 'nids as well.

That particular aspect yes. However most of the rest of the book was rather very well informed about the upcoming 6E changes. Increased rear armor over everyone elses to counter nerfs to vehicle CC rules, extra HP on basic transport and AV13 shields to remove medium weapons from the HP "glance to death" equation, flyer transport that ignored bad thing about being a flyer, more ability to manipulate the much more present and powerful NightFight rules, huge ability to take advantage of new character rules (particularly stuff like precision shots, look out sir, and challenges), and CC units that largely didn't rely on transports or outflanking to get into combat and in fact gained from longer average and max CC charge distances making them about the only army better at CC in 6th than it was in 5th, plus Tesla to allow them to fire at roughly BS3 effectiveness with Snapshots vs everyone else's BS1, etc.

They very much had a spy in the works for the 6E rules changeover

Really, though, with the exception of the fliers, all they got was 'more of the same'. They already had teleport shenanigans and night fight shenanigans from Veils and Pulses, their vehicles have always been insanely super-tough compared to everyone else's, Challenges just took over from carefully positioning your leaders to fight the most advantageous enemy IC...

 Vaktathi wrote:
That particular aspect yes. However most of the rest of the book was rather very well informed about the upcoming 6E changes. Increased rear armor over everyone elses to counter nerfs to vehicle CC rules, extra HP on basic transport and AV13 shields to remove medium weapons from the HP "glance to death" equation, flyer transport that ignored bad thing about being a flyer, more ability to manipulate the much more present and powerful NightFight rules, huge ability to take advantage of new character rules (particularly stuff like precision shots, look out sir, and challenges), and CC units that largely didn't rely on transports or outflanking to get into combat and in fact gained from longer average and max CC charge distances making them about the only army better at CC in 6th than it was in 5th, plus Tesla to allow them to fire at roughly BS3 effectiveness with Snapshots vs everyone else's BS1, etc.

They very much had a spy in the works for the 6E rules changeover

I play Necrons all the time, and I think that it's something else compared to other armies.
You just named a bunch of things and most of those aren't even used in the "top lists".

What I have noticed in comparison to other armies is that Necrons are effective.
Let's take the Annihilation Barge for example:
-You pay for an 11-armour Skimmer with Quantum Shielding.
-You get a discount because it is open-topped.
-You pay for a the weapons on board.
-You get a discount because the weapons are AP-

End-result: You pay for what you want and it leaves out everything that is useless!
It's like that with almost everything: Warriors are about as strong as Space Marines, but they don't have any weaponry options and thus they get a discount.
And I have no issues with that since I do not need an upgrade.
Basic Marines have to pay a price because of the number of attacks and for their I4. Most of my units never enter CC, so those points are wasted. Necrons do not waste points.

It's not like in the Space-Marine armies where you have stuff like Stormraven Gunships, where you pay 250 because they want to sell a transport + Gunship with tons of useless abilities.
You should have a Stormraven Gunship for 150 points ánd a Stormraven Transport for maybe 100 points, that would make it fair.

Stormraven gunships at 150pts would be ridiculous, much like the Vendetta or Heldrake, and Stormraven's aren't that bad as is.

The AP- on Tesla is largely irrelevant, pretty much unless it's AP3 nobody much cares about AP anyway and you're aiming to kill vehicles through HP's and not through Explosion results.

Basic marines have the same number of attacks as a Necron Warrior also.

I'm not arguing that everything in the army is broken, just that it's generally so well designed around the 6E rules that it's very difficult to compete, largely since most other armies are either A: still 4E/5E armies or B: play like they are (see Chaos Space Marines).

Exactly as you pointed out, they largely have nothing that's useless and are built very much around exactly what's works well in the current ruleset. They don't have transport-needy CC units, they don't have lots of AV11/12 vehicles (at least not until you manage to penetrate AV13), they have excellent flyers, etc.

Why not? Lower the armour and remove the transport-options, also remove the melta-immunity and take 2 out of 4 missiles away.
That's why they are so bad: Nobody wants to pay 250 points when they aren't even utilising 50% of the rules/options.
My Doomscythe is 75 points cheaper and doesn't have a dozen useless rules and wargear.

The AP- on Tesla IS relevant!
The weapon has no AP, so the rules of the game dictate that it gets a discount.
A Space Marine-equivalent of Tesla would have AP4 and you'd be paying 20 points more for the gun.
And that is my entire point: The army doesn't need AP on Tesla, you don't get AP on Tesla and you aren't paying for it either.
The problem with other armies is that they don't want 'rule X', but they get the rule and they have to pay for it.

I also meant 'number of weapons'.
Space Marines are paying a fee because they are able to get heavy weapons.
Necrons cannot carry heavy weapons, so they do not pay the fee.
The downside is that they 'cannot carry heavy weapons', but since they don't need it it is okay.

Conclusion:
The problem isn't that Necrons are too strong.
The problem is that many older codices are stuck with wargear/rules that they don't want, but they are paying for it.
This seems to be better in the newer codices.