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So I haven't actually got either book, but I really want to do a Dark Angel army, because I love the fluff and the models (the hoods are just awesome), and I also think that Asterion Moloc is one of the coolest models ever. So basically my question is, as he is used with C:SM, would it be viable to take a standard hq from DA, with a C:SM detachment containing Moloc? I was thinking maybe a Moloc plus deathwing knights combo could be pretty deadly? I don't know if there is anything overwhelming in the standard Space Marine codex that makes them worth taking as a detachment however

Failing that, could I use Moloc as a standard DA terminator captain, or Belial for example, and just have an all DA army? Using them the two detachments I'd probably aim for 1750-2000 pts to make sure I get the most I can to make it worthwhile

Pretty much yeah, you can also use him from the Siege assault vanguard list which allows for predator spam (squadronned trilas predators, enjoy turn one nuking land raiders). Oh and rerollable armor saves for space marines.

Pretty much to what, both? haven't heard of the siege list, would that still allow me to use Dark Angels? Also, what would you suggest if anything for the space marine detachment or would it be better to just use him as say Belial?

Moloc's updated IA rules are absolutely badass, he's the best space marine CC character there is, by far.
Problem is: you're gonna sink a ton of points in HQs if you're gonna combine it with Deathwing...
You'd be better off keeping your army out of the SM codex.

I don't See it as to much of a problem. Take your C:SM scout squad, and Moloc. Cheap DA Libby and troops, Some tactical squads, and then A nice fat deathwing knight deathstar with a LRC. Of course that is what I would do just off the top of my head. Probably a better way to do it though.

If you just like Asterion Moloc for his model, you might be better off just using him as Belial or some other DA terminator with a Stormshield and Power Axe/Lance/Unusual Power Weapon rather than trying to add a Minotaurs allied detachment.

I'm not necessarily looking to make a deathstar, just to have a cool unit of like 5 knights with Moloc in a land raider, because it sounds awesome :p I am thinking of a fairly balanced list with all the elements from the DA book, e.g. Some bikes, tactical marines with the knights, backed up by some armour... Would that be reasonably competitive? Also, taking the space marines as a detachment, can Moloc be the warlord, and does he still confer his chapter tactics: preferred enemy space marines? I read somewhere that it was faqed so that only his detachment is affected, is that right?

He certainly won´t give PE:SM to your DA.

You can't put Moloc in a DA Land Raider; allies can't embark on the main Codex's transports and vice versa.

althazar03 wrote:
Pretty much to what, both? haven't heard of the siege list, would that still allow me to use Dark Angels? Also, what would you suggest if anything for the space marine detachment or would it be better to just use him as say Belial?

Use them as allies.

Here's the 1d4chan tactica for the SAV

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Space_Marines/Siege_Assault_Vanguard

As you can see it's pretty awesome but there are big drawbacks.

question.... if you take the siege list as allies, do you have to take the siege objective too?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
question.... if you take the siege list as allies, do you have to take the siege objective too?

Yes, that is the primary drawback to the list.

Hmm, the siege list does sound cool, but it doesn't really fit with what I was thinking, plus I have no where near enough money for a FW army :p though I am loving the emperors children heresy stuff atm :p better hope they do some DA stuff... I may just take him as belial then, and on that note is it better to have belial or a standard termy hq?

Belial, no scatter deep strike and a fleshbane powersword while also having terminator troops? Yes Please!

In seriousness his special rules will make you take him over a standard company master

althazar03 wrote:
Hmm, the siege list does sound cool, but it doesn't really fit with what I was thinking, plus I have no where near enough money for a FW army :p though I am loving the emperors children heresy stuff atm :p better hope they do some DA stuff... I may just take him as belial then, and on that note is it better to have belial or a standard termy hq?

The SAv list actually requires precisely zero forge world models.

Muzwa wrote:
Belial, no scatter deep strike and a fleshbane powersword while also having terminator troops? Yes Please!

In seriousness his special rules will make you take him over a standard company master

I'm actually considering him with a TH/SS instead.

Edit:
I'm making my own converted version of Belial. I plan on giving him all 3 weapon options. Just in case LCs ever become more viable.
I like the added save of the SS, which is why I'm leaning that way. There are lots of way to die by AP2 weapons in 6th....

I was planning on putting the knights in a land raider, so would belial be better going with a normal DW squad or a command squad instead? I've literally never played with a space marine army before, but my general idea was 2/3 tactical squads maybe in rhinos, a unit of knights, maybe another unit of termies, a unit or two of bikes, backed up by tanks (thinking two vindis and a pred?) How does that sound as a general composition? Will I be able to get all that in roughly 1750 points?

I've fielded my fledgling siege assault vanguard with moloc in a 1000pt game. He is all that. He isn't a bag of chips; he's the whole damn factory. With the spectacular 'seems fair' 5 S6ap2 attacks on the charge, and being the only terminator in the non-GK to have even quasi-assault grenades... yeah. Stuff died.

tanks are pretty hard to play this edition (unless Land Raiders) because of the hull point things. I had nothing but bad experiences with vindicators to be honest. They always died or always got blown up before they could do anything. I tried that whole army push thing, and i couldnt get it right.

but if you do what you described, take azreal. he makes everyone LD10, and makes both terminators and Ravenwing troops.


I would think a couple of predators would be good for some range stuff. maybe a rifleman

I've heard lots of things good about the vindis, however one of the key negatives was that they die a lot, however one pie can make back their points... Which is why I figured take two, one will get where I want :p and then a pred for some long range support. What is a rifleman? If I could azrael, what unit should he go in?

the knights in a land raider is as good of an escort as anything else.

and the rifleman is a x2 autocannon dred.

So can a land raider hold 10 men regardless of size? I.e. ten termies?

Hmm ok, that could be a consideration for some anti tank, I just think the vindis look awesome, although they aren't overly anti tank as such due to the pie plate

althazar03 wrote:
So can a land raider hold 10 men regardless of size? I.e. ten termies?

No, Terminators are bulky and take 2 slots each.

Then how can I have 5 knights and azrael in a land raider?

LRRs and LRCs have more than 10 Transport Capacity.

Ahhh, how much can they hold?

 phoenix darkus wrote:
Moloc's updated IA rules are absolutely badass, he's the best space marine CC character there is, by far.
Problem is: you're gonna sink a ton of points in HQs if you're gonna combine it with Deathwing...
You'd be better off keeping your army out of the SM codex.

Lysander's a beast as well, a Str10 MC thunderhammer (that is +2 on vehicle damage charts)...

althazar03 wrote:
Ahhh, how much can they hold?

That'd be in your Codex. Dakka is not a substitute for the books.

Alright, sheesh, just asking a question :p and as I said in my original post I don't have te book yet, I'm just trying to get an idea of whether my idea would work...

Sorry if I came across as harsh, but there's been a load of people lately trying to get stuff for free. Suffice to say that both the Redeemer and Crusader can carry enough to fit your five Knights and Moloc.