Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sooo, in our local group our SM player has been raving about the centurions possibilities. I fully expect to see a whole bunch of grav cannons pop up soon. As a CSM player, this is mildly disturbing.

So, I'm already trying to think of ways to deal with this.

I don't think my vindicators will live long enough to take them out. I'm sure my melta bikers,havocs,raptors,and blastmaster noise marines will put wounds on them, but it seems that i'll have to dedicate a large chunk of my forces to neutralize them.

Any suggestions?

Well Cents and Vindicators both have 30" threat range, if you go second make sure you are 31" away.

Spawn rush would do great with maybe the Khorne lord on Juggy hiding in back of you with AP 2 axe.. move 12, run and turn 2 you could probably charge.
Those guns will need 6's to wound spawn.

I played with 2 units of cents the other say, i wasnt impressed with Grav guns in all honesty. Lascannon Cents with chapter tactics Imperial Fist are a better play.

Spawn.
Wounding on 6's is awesome.
Get in and tie them up all game. You might even win eventually.

Some of the best units these days available to CSM, in the current meta, are zombies and spawn. Spawn, because they're actually rather durable and fast, and zombies because they're so incredibly cheap. Neither of these care at all about Grav weapons.

Tsilber wrote:
Well Cents and Vindicators both have 30" threat range, if you go second make sure you are 31" away.

?

So, first turn, they're out of range, then at the bottom of turn you move forward 12", and are out of range, or you move flat-out and don't get to shoot. Turn 2, you're in range, and the grav guns fire. Either way, your opponent is still getting to shoot at the tank before the tank gets to shoot at the centurions.

The question I'm more curious about is why you're still taking vindicators in the first place. Grav guns are hardly the biggest threat that these vehicles have to face.

They're basically obliterators. How do you fight obliterators without invulnerable saves? That's how you fight centurions.

 Ailaros wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
Well Cents and Vindicators both have 30" threat range, if you go second make sure you are 31" away.

?

So, first turn, they're out of range, then at the bottom of turn you move forward 12", and are out of range, or you move flat-out and don't get to shoot. Turn 2, you're in range, and the grav guns fire. Either way, your opponent is still getting to shoot at the tank before the tank gets to shoot at the centurions.

The question I'm more curious about is why you're still taking vindicators in the first place. Grav guns are hardly the biggest threat that these vehicles have to face.

...Um no..

Centurions is 260 points, no one is going to sit back with them. If you are going second, set up 31" away and wait for the Centurion player to move forward. If they dont move forward because they are scared of your vindicator. Then you would also NOT move forward, HENCE staying 31" away... Your 140 point tank is now taking a 260point unit out of play. Didnt realize i had to go that much into detail to spell it out...

Anyway, the original poster asked for help, offer help to him mate...

Also STATUS, Vindicators are not a bad choice, str 10. With all the broad side, tau suits running around. And now the influx of Cents you are going to see. Try it out and see if the Large blast is worth keeping, play test it yourself.
Just consider this, space marines can have 4 of each choice with allying Space marines. I ran a quick game to get a fell for them, proxing 2 units of cents and 2 thunderfire cannons. Centurions in ruins + Tech bolster = 3+ cover save.

But as said by myself and a few more already, spawns look like a fast, cheap, reliable choice if you want a dedicated unit to go Cent hunting.

Sounds pretty scary!

Basically, you should concede every game to him on the first turn. Maybe even before the first turn, during deployment. That way, you can be absolutely certain that the Centurions'll never get a shot off.

In all seriousness, don't worry too much about the Centurions. I don't intend to buy any in the immediate future. I do think that they have a lot of potential, but I'm not that enamored of them. And I have other combinations I want to try out first.

Centurions are vulnerable ton instant death and don't come with an invul save. Planted in some ruins or behind an ADL in the middle of their deployment zone, they'll have plenty of targets.

Relying on your opponent to break cover so that he can charge a vindicator with centurions is silly.

Termicide squads with plasma could work. Oblits using plasma cannons. Vindicators. Spawn. Super killy Khorne lord on juggie +spawn escort.

Hmmm, I haven't really pondered this issue yet. Maybe this Saturday I'll get to play vs some Centurions. Psychic Shriek and lucky Perfectly Timinged Tzeentch Daemon powers come to mind. That and the new CSM Breath of Chaos are all I can think of for ranged attacks, and those are SHORT-range, well I guess the Daemon Tzeentch powers are 18" and 24".

And of course just assaulting them with AP2 melee weapons at I5 or higher. CSM has the Axe, and Daemons have plenty of those!

Spawn would be hilarious. Wound on 6s, 3wounds each model. Dirt cheap too. Only drawback is it denies you from taking any hellchickens but to be frank CSM does not NEED hellchickens, theyre just easier to rely on.

If you have Codex: Chaos Daemons available to you, throw a winged Nurgle Prince with a Balesword at them. Any Greater Daemon actually should be able to squash them in assault. Failing that, rush them with Slaanesh psykers and Psychic Shriek them into oblivion.

I'd go berserker on them. Sending in twelve of them to CC them, they won't stand a chance. Sure, they'll kill a few khornies, but they with sheer amount of attacks you get you'll still win the combat. I'm pretty sure they are both Initiative 4 so you attack at the same time. And 4 * 12 +1 strength 5 attacks is something that even centurions won't be able to cope with.

I am pretty sure devastator centurions have power fists so go at I1. Only the assault variant have non unwieldy cc weapons.

That being said, the best options I am hearing so far are the spawn led by cc chaos lord. A lord with AOBF and spawn escort will smash their faces in while only costing slightly more.

The other option I was toying with was a flying prince without the power armour. That way he is only being wounded on a 6 as well.

Hard Counters =

Chaos Bikers MON
Chaos Spawn MON
Obliterators
Terminators (deep strike)
Vindicators
Predators
Havocs
Ectoplasma Forgefiend
Daemon Prince
Maulerfiend
Chosen
Most any kitted out lord that reaches them in assault

 rohansoldier wrote:
The other option I was toying with was a flying prince without the power armour. That way he is only being wounded on a 6 as well.

Which is fine against Centurions armed with Grav guns. But it's a terrible decision against almost everything else.

Spawn, Bikers (jink and fast) loads on infantry can do it well.

Note: DON'T send in the daemon prince. I have just made that mistake. I killed 1 and wounded another and then they fisted him to death. The only way to avoid insta death is to go prince of nurgle, but then you will take more wounds as you won't get to re roll 1s.

Long story short DON'T send in the big guns, just send lots of medium ones

Spawn against devCAN pop three + a shot

Dev cents have power fists?

dlight wrote:
Hard Counters =

Chaos Bikers MON
Chaos Spawn MON
Obliterators
Terminators (deep strike)
Vindicators
Predators
Havocs
Ectoplasma Forgefiend
Daemon Prince
Maulerfiend
Chosen
Most any kitted out lord that reaches them in assault

No - GravCents murder all things bike as they are wounding on 3's and you get no save.
Yes - GravCents are useless here and Spawn will tie them up.
Maybe - If Obilterators stay out of range, yes.
Good Lord NO - Terminators are food to GravCents and they won't have the firepower or rely on they're saves.
Yes - Hmmmm Str 10 goodness.
Maybe - You'll take out one a turn, but you have range.
Yes - keep at range and use Lascannons.
Hell Yes - I'm a supporter of this unit - it's by far and wide highly underrated.
Maybe - if you get in CC, you'll be fine.
Maybe - same as DP.
Maybe - if you can maneuver yourself in and PG them to death.

Centurions do NOT have Power Fists.

They don't? I saw the fist things and thought that's what they were when he told me that. the guy lied to me about his weaps... I feels foolish

thetallestgiraffe wrote:
They don't? I saw the fist things and thought that's what they were when he told me that. the guy lied to me about his weaps... I feels foolish

Assault Cents have those nasty drills, but Dev Cents do not have any CC weapons at all.

Puscifer wrote:

thetallestgiraffe wrote:
They don't? I saw the fist things and thought that's what they were when he told me that. the guy lied to me about his weaps... I feels foolish

Assault Cents have those nasty drills, but Dev Cents do not have any CC weapons at all.

Speaking of Assault Cents, for note they are better then mutilators, you can actually treat them as a better CC threat.

thetallestgiraffe wrote:
They don't? I saw the fist things and thought that's what they were when he told me that. the guy lied to me about his weaps... I feels foolish

Negative bud. Just the standard cc weapons and 1 attack each. They're pretty squishy if they're the dev version. The assault version have the drills, however

The CC Cents are not good as the need a delivery system and if they do, it's expensive.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

thetallestgiraffe wrote:
They don't? I saw the fist things and thought that's what they were when he told me that. the guy lied to me about his weaps... I feels foolish

Assault Cents have those nasty drills, but Dev Cents do not have any CC weapons at all.

Speaking of Assault Cents, for note they are better then mutilators, you can actually treat them as a better CC threat.

WHAT?! better than mutilators!? Why I never!!

Cultists are better the mutes XD

GoliothOnline wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

thetallestgiraffe wrote:
They don't? I saw the fist things and thought that's what they were when he told me that. the guy lied to me about his weaps... I feels foolish

Assault Cents have those nasty drills, but Dev Cents do not have any CC weapons at all.

Speaking of Assault Cents, for note they are better then mutilators, you can actually treat them as a better CC threat.

WHAT?! better than mutilators!? Why I never!!

Cultists are better the mutes XD

True enough, but I was meaning for their original purpose.

Puscifer wrote:

dlight wrote:
Hard Counters =

Chaos Bikers MON
Chaos Spawn MON
Obliterators
Terminators (deep strike)
Vindicators
Predators
Havocs
Ectoplasma Forgefiend
Daemon Prince
Maulerfiend
Chosen
Most any kitted out lord that reaches them in assault

No - GravCents murder all things bike as they are wounding on 3's and you get no save.
Yes - GravCents are useless here and Spawn will tie them up.
Maybe - If Obilterators stay out of range, yes.
Good Lord NO - Terminators are food to GravCents and they won't have the firepower or rely on they're saves.
Yes - Hmmmm Str 10 goodness.
Maybe - You'll take out one a turn, but you have range.
Yes - keep at range and use Lascannons.
Hell Yes - I'm a supporter of this unit - it's by far and wide highly underrated.
Maybe - if you get in CC, you'll be fine.
Maybe - same as DP.
Maybe - if you can maneuver yourself in and PG them to death.

Centurions do NOT have Power Fists.

A small unit of Terminators dropping down by the centurions and unleashing combi plasma would work. You could easily kill 2.

A big block of them marching across the table would not.

Big difference.

Good catch on the bikers. Forgot about the ignore cover.

Assault Cents... i will laugh if anyone actually fields those things lol. Dont feel like doing the math but arent they more expensive than the same wounds worth of hammer/shield termies, and lack the invul just for T5? Rather T4 and 3++ since theyre both going to be hammered with S7+ weapons anyway for the AP or rate of fire purposes. And my warboss will paste them anyway