Road/Kill Ultimate Car Combat - Kickstarter

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**Lord GreyWolf**

Car combat game from a Canadian Game Designer.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1936639747/road-kill-ultimate-car-combat-tabletop-strategy-ga

not sure on this just thought I'd show you something different.. I never got a round to playing Car Wars and Dark Future games I was more into playing WHFB and WH40k...

The game looks good not sure on the pricing seems expensive... currently pledge in for reward #2 [PDF copy of the rules]

One comment I did see what the Dropzone Commander terrain could work with this scale:

Now that would be a blast playing a car battle on something like that set up.... will update as more info comes to light. the Vehicles are fully customizable and offer different versions. Each Faction has one type that is theirs and you can upgrade your vehicles with certain drivers. There are more expansions planned I believe 4.

We have to wait until they get to $79kCAD before the Box set pledge gets unlocked [Which is reward #6 and is $130CAD which gives you tiles, dice and rules for the game.] Time will tell if this is possible.

Cheers
LGW

**ephrael**

This looks pretty cool. I wonder how the vehicles compare to mechs from games like Macross or Battletech? They might make for some interesting scenarios at least.

**Lord GreyWolf**

As far as I can tell the Size of the Road/Kill vehicles is N scale and if my google powers are correct that is around 9mm which should fit in with Dropzone at 10mm...
so any game sytem that is around the size of DZ should work.

I like the look of the armoured transport truck could be a fun mission to try and high jack it.
plus the objective pack looks interesting...

LGW

**AegisGrimm**

It looks really awesome, with some cool background, but seems really expensive to get a full game. $120 just to buy at the level that has a Goliath?

**cincydooley**

Anyone get a game of this in at GenCon?

**CptJake**

AegisGrimm wrote:
It looks really awesome, with some cool background, but seems really expensive to get a full game. $120 just to buy at the level that has a Goliath?

Yeah, roughly $10 for a 10mm car? $20 for 12 weapons and 3 accessories that fit on 10mm cars?

I can get parts and rules to customize hot wheels scale cars a lot cheaper...

http://www.stanjohansenminiatures.com/Road.htm

http://www.stanjohansenminiatures.com/Road%20Rage%20Rules.htm

And the box set with road tiles needs to be unlocked at almost 80k?

I'll watch this one, but it has not grabbed me yet.

**Lord GreyWolf**

another option are Micro machines there are plenty to choose from as far as my googling powers has shown they are slightly bigger then N scale so more 10mm... So should work for this game.

wouldn't take much to sci-fi them up with some bitz and pieces. just checked evil bay and there are quite a few that will offer you a lot more vehicles for $10USD...

food for thought..

LGW

**GreenLaborMike**

AegisGrimm wrote:
It looks really awesome, with some cool background, but seems really expensive to get a full game. $120 just to buy at the level that has a Goliath?

Miles at The Infinity Gate (producers of Road/Kill) is offering a money-back guarantee, so that takes some of the sting out of the price (at least for US and Canadian backers). And if the game fully unlocks, the top tier offers 47 minis (in addition to all the other components) for $300, including three Goliath trucks. That many vehicles will make for an awesome convoy assault scenario!

**CptJake**

The money back guarantee really doesn't address a lot of the issues folks are bringing up. And the great deal offered by the top tier is pretty darned unlikely at this point. But heck, welcome to Dakka. Hopefully you enjoy the community and find more of interest than just pushing for Road Kill.

**GreenLaborMike**

I enjoy pushing for Road/Kill at least as much as you seem to enjoy pushing against it.

Thanks for the welcome. As it happens, I haven't been a miniatures game player before, but I've backed a number of Kickstarter miniatures game projects besides Road/Kill (Sails of Glory, All Quiet on the Martian Front, Kaosball, Wrath of Kings, Cthulhu Wars, etc.), so I'd better learn how to paint!

**Wehrkind**

Wow, even with that extra terrain and bits from the stretch goals, that is still unfortunately salty :( 10mm cars for more than 2$ a piece is a lot of money, especially for a KS.

Then again, I am cheap and usually don't get into KickStarters for models unless they are <2$ a pop, so I might be an outlier.

Best of luck, but this is too rich for my blood.

**Lord GreyWolf**

I was a backer for this project, first at $100 then dropped down to $15CAD and hence why I left and bought another car battle game [Outrider] which my kids will enjoy.

why have I left:
* No box set offered as a pledge...
* Funding goals.. even if the game funds at $39k your not getting the full game not until $79k is reached.
* The price of the minis is expensive $25CAD for one 10mm car and leader card etc is almost $30NZD which is freakin expensive in my neck of the woods.. considering I could buy a full pack of plastic 15mm tanks from The Plastic Soldier Company or even buy 10 hot wheel cars and convert them up to combat cars.... even the basic road kill car is around $10CAD per car...
* Don't have any confidence in the creator..

Its just not happening for me... I did at first but the sore points just to much to ignore...
And regardless of the money back guarantee its still to much of a risk as there is no guarantee that the full game will get made.

good luck to TIG and their fanboys...

LGW

**AegisGrimm**

* No box set offered as a pledge...

Actually you can get all that you need to play the game, but you have to pay at least $70CDN for the pledge level, and you only get a PDF rulebook.

I just think this game sounds really expensive for what amounts to a playable game out of the box.

**Lord GreyWolf**

AegisGrimm wrote:
* No box set offered as a pledge...

Actually you can get all that you need to play the game, but you have to pay at least $70CDN for the pledge level, and you only get a PDF rulebook.

I just think this game sounds really expensive for what amounts to a playable game out of the box.

True you do get the BASIC stuff to play a BASIC game at the $70CAD pledge level.

But the creator has mentioned it many times that the key to this game is the Command box and Command dice that will be unlocked at $79k hell even the tiles you need to drive on won't be unlocked until $79k. and the rules in the current form are designed to be played on the "steelback" not off road [Off road rules will be in the 5th edition of the game]

its a real shame that its ended like this for me the game looked promising there is just to many gaps and uncertainty for me to back...

LGW

**GreenLaborMike**

Lord GreyWolf wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
* No box set offered as a pledge...

Actually you can get all that you need to play the game, but you have to pay at least $70CDN for the pledge level, and you only get a PDF rulebook.

I just think this game sounds really expensive for what amounts to a playable game out of the box.

True you do get the BASIC stuff to play a BASIC game at the $70CAD pledge level.

But the creator has mentioned it many times that the key to this game is the Command box and Command dice that will be unlocked at $79k hell even the tiles you need to drive on won't be unlocked until $79k. and the rules in the current form are designed to be played on the "steelback" not off road [Off road rules will be in the 5th edition of the game]

its a real shame that its ended like this for me the game looked promising there is just to many gaps and uncertainty for me to back...

LGW

I might quibble with the details, but your basic point is fair. I think it was a mistake that the creator, Miles, structured the new KS project the way he did. I understand that it was a reaction - in part - to the concerns that the $89,000 goal in the first project was too high and scared people away.. No way of knowing now, but if he had taken the other steps suggested by backers the first time around - getting third party reviews, more playtesting, and a more developed/complete set of rules for backers to look at and tinker with, then I think he would have hit $79k (or even $89k) with no problem.

I suppose I am a fanboy in some sense, because I'm a huge fan of Car Wars and would love to see a fully developed car combat game with cool minis produced now rather than later. But I'm just as aware as anyone of how the KS project could have been structured. That's a flaw of the project, though, not the game itself. Everyone who played the demo and has written in seems to love the game, and that's a good sign. I am prepared to pledge at the highest level (not unlocked yet) which would have meant minis for about $5 a piece when you figure all the other game components that would come at that level. Alas, it is not unlocked...

**AegisGrimm**

I would very likely want to buy this game off the shelf for a normal "miniatures" boardgame price(50-70 dollars), but not as a Kickstarter with the pledges set like they are.

**Lord GreyWolf**

@GreenLabourMike you know from my comments on the KS comment page that I have nothing against the game it looks fantastic, the concept looks great, the minis though expensive are sweet looking.

But its the drastic difference from his first attempt to this current version that makes this not for me.

firstly he had a reasonable goal and had the pledge levels to back that funds up with. As the BOX game was one of the pledge levels.
Also it seems you got more stuff per pledge for less compared with the current version of KS.

I really wish the Road kill fans and TIG all the luck for this venture but I am taking the express exit and taking a different road.

I think that I will also be like AegisGrimm and wait for a retail version and see what the cost is like then....

LGW

**GreenLaborMike**

No worries, LGW. And I hope you continue to have fun playing Outrider with your kids! Let me know if it's worth picking up.

@Aegisgrimm. - As a US backer, the Road/Kill money back guarantee is useful. That may not address your concerns completely, but there really does seem to be very little risk involved with backing R/K for US (and Canadian) backers.

My biggest beef of all is that Steve Jackson Games isn't putting up the Car Wars Kickstarter project until 2014. *sigh*. I've wait 25 years, I guess I can wait one more...

**CptJake**

Lord GreyWolf wrote:

firstly he had a reasonable goal and had the pledge levels to back that funds up with. As the BOX game was one of the pledge levels.
Also it seems you got more stuff per pledge for less compared with the current version of KS.

That is a good point. With the original project (which by the way got more funding in a shorter time than this iteration) backers would indeed have gotten more for their money. I assume (and yes I know that is dangerous) Miles decided he could not afford to make the packages as attractive at those prices. It really is too bad, I would have pledged for a much higher level than I currently am if the reward packages were as attractive as they were first time around. Now I'm currently just going for the rule PDF.

Here is a link to the original project so folks can see what we mean: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/infinitygate/road-kill-ultimate-car-combat-miniatures-tabletop

Note it made 21k in about 10 days. The current iteration has not hit that as of the time I type this, two weeks into the project. That should be an indicator. I suspect the Real Road Warriors will poo poo the facts though.

**Breotan**

I'm not excited about the vehicle designs. They look like something out of bad 70s/80s scifi. I'd be more inclined to fund were they designed along the Mad Max / Death Race 2000 aesthetics.

**Lord GreyWolf**

GreenLaborMike wrote:
No worries, LGW. And I hope you continue to have fun playing Outrider with your kids! Let me know if it's worth picking up.

@Aegisgrimm. - As a US backer, the Road/Kill money back guarantee is useful. That may not address your concerns completely, but there really does seem to be very little risk involved with backing R/K for US (and Canadian) backers.

My biggest beef of all is that Steve Jackson Games isn't putting up the Car Wars Kickstarter project until 2014. *sigh*. I've wait 25 years, I guess I can wait one more...

Have you played X-wing? or Wings of War/Glory?
both have a set up where you place down a movement dial or card and then move the plane that distance.
So with Outrider you have your car which can be either a card or Hot wheel sized vehicle attached to the card if you want the 3D look.
You get heaps of tokens to keep track of the vehicle and its damage. Each car has 4 sections Engine, Driver, Armour and Weapons. With each of these you allocate a dice strength [D6, D8, D10, and D12]. It also has an Action Point system and the amount of action points you get and use for movement is determined by the type of Engine you have. D6 being the low end and D12 being the biggest baddest block your going to have.

there are cool auxiliary weapons you can add to each vehicle from Land mine dispenser to a big Mortar. The dynamics around the game is a simple dice roll to do any tests and a Vs roll when attacking or crashing [eg ramming] into vehicles.
The game has some great potential and the creator is planning on doing a kickstarter sooner rather then latter [well before car wars gets one] and has been taking advice, ideas, wish lists and other general tid-bits from those who have downloaded the game and played it. This rule set may not be for everyone as some Car battle players may not like the movement cards but for me I am cool with the concept.
There will be rules for Pedestrians, planes, helicopters, tanks, trains, trucks, and BIG rigs... these may be added during the Kickstarter time will only tell.
you can make your own vehicle but its not quite there yet as you have limited range of weapons [small arms, Light Machine guns, Heavy Machine guns, and Friggin Ordinance weapons]

He has a thread on BGG asking if he did a kickstarter who would be keen to be part of it and what would they like to see get done... Have been talking to him about the Kickstarter.
The game costs $5USD to buy and then you print it off. It would be dam loads cheaper to print in the states here it cost me $50USD to print but well worth it for me and the kids to play.

http://dicefestgames.blogspot.com.au/p/outrider.html

cheers
LGW

here is one of the finished trucks...

This Vehicle is armed with Large Friggin Ordinance and twin-linked rear secondary Light machine gun.
The front arc is swivel and the rear arc cover most of the back. Buzz saw in the front to rip it up against enemy cars.
Hoping that energy weapons will be in the future of this game as this guy will upgrade to one.

**Elindiel**

I like the Semi

Twisted metal

**CptJake**

Great truck!

Damn that is cool.

**Lord GreyWolf**

CptJake wrote:
Great truck!

Damn that is cool.

Will put a thread up soon of the other 10 cars and trucks in the next hour or so...

cheers
LGW

**GreenLaborMike**

Here is some more info from the Road/Kill Kickstarter project. It's definitely struggling, which is unfortunate, because the game itself looks very cool. This is a gameplay description of the four factions in the Road/Kill universe

Road Warriors!

You asked for more details on the four factions in Road/Kill, so here they are! What follows is an abbreviated excerpt from the faction rules chapter as I've written for the first draft of Road/Kill! The full faction rules will include the complete rules along with a painting guide and faction territory maps and history. Enjoy...

Across the wastelands of Helen IV, the clans exist in unknown numbers. In this edition, rules featuring three of the most notorious clans and the rightly feared constabulary of the fortress city of Port Athens are included.

When constructing a vehicle as a member of one of these factions, you are automatically granted a number of unique benefits for that vehicle:

·Faction Perks

·Construction Modifiers

·Exclusive Gear and Vehicle

·Honcho Perks

You may also opt to paint vehicles as a clan of your own design, with “plays as” rules from the choices below.

Honchos

When three or more vehicles from one faction are in play on the same team, one among them may be upgraded to a “honcho”.While city guard and the clans are organized differently, a “honcho” is an ad hoc squad leader allowed to equip a few extra goodies. For each vehicle in the squad past two, a honcho may select a Honcho Perk, to a maximum of three.

Cerulean Guard

The constabulary of the largest city on Helen IV, Port Athens is the Cerulean Guard. Well armed and equipped with powerful satellite support, they are the only law in the wastelands beyond the city walls. This faction is led by the ruthless Captain Shayna Reese.

Faction Perks:

Eye in the sky: All Cerulean Guard vehicles gain +1 Initiative during the tactical phase.

Drone Uplink: Cerulean Guard will never be targeted by drone turrets, and may opt to remote operate one in play, using it in place of their own weapons.

Construction Modifiers

Weapon discount: Lasers, Shotguns
Weapon premium: Grenade Launchers, Cannon

Exclusive Gear

Siren Array: This powerful sonic weapon can be activated as a defensive weapon.Any vehicle within 6” must test against its disruptive effects.

Exclusive Vehicle

Spartan variant 3 (body/chassis)

Honcho Perks (1 of 3 available)

Satellite strike: Once per game, the honcho may fire a high power laser from an orbiting satellite.The shot is STR 10 and uses the Deviation Die. The honcho does not require line of sight to make the shot.

Scions of Man

The Scions are a nomadic band of cyborgs led by the charismatic and savage Rastor Cray. They hate any unlike themselves, and constantly seek the parts that allow them to sustain and modify their bodies.
Faction Perks:

Tough as Nails (because they’re made of nails): Always reduce the overkill bonus against Scions by half, rounding down. Scion vehicles also ignore any Driver kill results on the D6 roll of 4+.

Construction Modifiers

Weapon discount: Ram, Flamethrower
Weapon premium: Railgun, Rockets

Exclusive Gear

Harpoon Gun: This primitive weapon fires a barbed spike into the target attached to length of high tensile wire. A penetrating hit with the spike allows the target vehicle to be pulled D6” directly towards the firing vehicle.

Exclusive Vehicle

Viking variant 3 (body/chassis)

Honcho Perks (1 of 3 available)

Neural Uplink: Once per turn, the Honcho may share one fortune point to any vehicle in his squad. He also gains one fortune point whenever another vehicle in his squad does.

Cutter’s Wraiths

That they even exist is in debate among the thirteen cities. Those few who have seen them and lived tell only of phantom vehicles that appear from mist and swiftly return to it when all is in ruins. In truth, they are a vengeful pirate clan that survived the war by burrowing underground.They are led by Cutter Yolo, an enigmatic man who has not slept or removed his chrome visor in ten years.

Faction Perks:

Like Ghosts: Wraiths may always choose to deploy by Ambush. Any To Hit penalty against a Wraith suffers an additional -1. In addition, Wraiths gain a +1 To Hit when firing through smoke.

Construction Modifiers

Weapon discount: Machine Guns, Railgun
Weapon premium: Shotgun, Flamethrower
Exclusive Gear

Smoke Launchers: This roof mounted defensive weapon is a series of launch tubes that place D3 smoke markers anywhere within 8” of the firing vehicle.Once placed, roll to deviate.

Exclusive Vehicle

Spartan variant 4 (body/chassis)

Honcho Perks (1 of 3 available)

EMP bomb: Once per game, the Honcho may launch an EMP bomb from a smoke launcher he has equipped.This weapon uses AOE 1 and leaves any vehicle it hits disrupted on a D6 roll of +2.

Las Viboras

They are the sworn protectors of the only settler town to survive the war. As nearby fortress cities threaten to take the land and lives of her people, Lucia Yeung ensures they pay for their trespass in blood.She and her pack are experts in demolitions and traps, and have evaded countless capture attempts by city guard.
Faction Perks:

It’s a trap: obstacle markers placed with a Las Viboras vehicle in play may be booby trapped. Once per turn, the Las Viboras player may attempt to detonate an obstacle as though it were a Proximity Mine, on the D6 roll of +5.

Masters of Disaster: Las Viboras may always re-roll the deviation when firing AOE weapons.

Construction Modifiers

Weapon discount: Mines, Grenade Launcher
Weapon premium: Laser, Machine Guns

Exclusive Gear

Heavy Mortar: This roof mounted weapon is a series of launch tubes that may make five attacks. The Mortar is a STR 8 attack using AOE1 anywhere within 16” of the firing vehicle.Once placed, roll to deviate. Vehicles hit are stunned in addition to any damage they may suffer.

Exclusive Vehicle

Centurion Variant 3 (body/chassis)

Honcho Perks (1 of 3 available)

Ranging Fire: A Las Viboras Honcho that hits a target with a ranged attack allows a friendly vehicle to reduce scatter by 1” for an AOE attack on the same target.

**Lord GreyWolf**

@GreenLaborMike its great that your passionate about this game it certainly needs more backers like yourself, but to be honest your flagging a dead horse.

I think the kickstarter has been to focused on the minis TO MUCH! yes they are nice and have been designed by the best with the best quality of material.
but its about the game the rules getting that system into the hands of gamers so they can play it at its FULL potential. Not some half cocked rules set that looks more like a turn sequence then actual rules.

he should have made the box set with cardboard tokens or standees of the various vehicles and then used the stretch goals to add in the 3D versions of them.
Done that way the game would have been funded by now and he could have been working on getting the minis made.
also the choice of scale has not been thought out at all. 10mm why? just because Hawkwargames did it with Dropzone [which has a massive range and following] doesn't mean he should or could do it with such a niche market game like Raod/Kill.

why or how he made his decisions only time will tell if this game makes it to market. With the absurd amount of ridiculous comments that have been thrown around, and heated arguments it has gotten out of hand. Its why I walked away in the end, and moved on to Outrider.

I wish Miles and Jennifer all the best but Road/kill is not a game for me hence why I cancelled my pledge. I do hope for the fanboys sake it does get funded but with each day ticking over its looking unlikely. Then again, there is still the final week and final 48 hours where more pledger's usually join a kickstarter. even then if that happens [and its a BIG if] they still need a huge influx at least $1,571CAD per day for the next 13 days, just to get to the funding goal of $39k CAD and for the main goal when the actual box set is unlocked of $79k CAD your needing $4,648CAD per day...

I've said my piece you know where I stand... the game does look cool and it would fill a void that is lacking in the gaming world... I am just not happy as to how its was handled, set up and executed... the actual game, minis, and game play really does look like it would have be an exciting game.

LGW

**cerbrus2**

So its just Dark Future then...... But with smaller cars.

**Lord GreyWolf**

cerbrus2 wrote:
So its just Dark Future then...... But with smaller cars.

not sure as I didn't play Dark Future and I haven't seen the Rule Book for Road/kill but this is the basics

Here it goes, right from your web page, the Basic Rules for Road/Kill!

"Following is a break-down of the Turn sequence.

1. Initiative Phase: Players determine their actions and set them in secret. They set Speed, Maneuver, Target and may select one Holdout ability. Roll for initiative.

2. Movement Phase: In initiative order, players activate their vehicles, revealing the Speed and Maneuver setting from their command box. Resolve any collisions, defensive weapons or Holdout abilities as appropriate. Add a road tile as appropriate.

3. Shooting Phase: In initiative order, players activate their vehicles, revealing their Target. If eligible, players shoot using either aimed or snap fire. Holdout abilities may be played as appropriate.

4. End Phase: Check scenario victory conditions. If victory has not been achieved, play continues another turn. In initiative order, players attempt damage control; reboot, repair, reload, clear jam, douse flames, etc. Holdout abilities may be played as appropriate.

taken from another thread. The game Road/kill utilizes a new type of dice set up in the form of the Command Boxes and Command dice. [basically its a black pill box with an image of the what dice goes into each slot.] you select the dice you want for each compartment [4 different sections]. this is so your opponent does not see what you chose.

from there not sure what else you do the Road warriors [fanboys] can explain it better. But don't hold your breat about using them as its another item destined for the $79k CAD goal.

LGW

**CptJake**

cerbrus2 wrote:
So its just Dark Future then...... But with smaller cars and no motorcycles or pedestrians.

Or at least they are not mentioned as included in the rules as far as I can tell. I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong.

**Lord GreyWolf**

The 2nd ~~Edition~~ Expansion covers the Bikes. ~~not sure about~~ Pedestrians are covered in the 5th Expansion as well as city fighting.. no Eta on when these were planned for.

LGW