Reaper Bones II: Closed at $3,169,610

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**czakk**

Barzam wrote:
I know they're overdone, but I really hope we get a staight zombie expansion in there somewhere.

The last kickstarter had an option at the end where you could purchase extras of a particular group of models in the base set - they will likely do something similar (if you go in the comments I think they confirm that).

**czakk**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I mean, how many thousands of dollars are they going to sink into poorly-sculpted diaper dwarf, six-breasted weasel boo-boo and Puff the Flaccid Dragon? Certainly more than those miniatures will ever make with retail sales, unless there's some huge groundswell of appreciation I'm missing out on. Two of the latest five evil guys look like sad clowns. Reaper could be putting out much better sculpts of characters with the same race, class and load-out that they already have in their back catalog, but they are instead putting these out. I assume it's because they are listening to their inner circle of fans, people who openly state that they haven't moved on from Ral Partha and older companies. As someone who wants Reaper to succeed, the constant one step forward/one step backward is frustrating. As someone who wants enjoyable models as a reward for supporting Reaper, I find their choices are leaving me doubtful.

They are converting the metal minis to bones based mainly on past sales metrics and they've been pretty open about that:

Check out the top selling metal minis they have (top 100 dhl, top 50 chronoscope and top 50 warlord models)

http://www.reapermini.com/RetailSupport/RackContents/00140

http://www.reapermini.com/RetailSupport/RackContents/00201

http://www.reapermini.com/RetailSupport/RackContents/00552

They don't have a top 50 for the pathfinder stuff, but pathfinder stuff sells like hotcakes.

Most of them are going to get bonesed or got boneisized last KS.

Apparently, people online complain a lot about certain type of models - dragon stretch goals for instance but dragons in bones outsell everything else:

Over from the reaper forums:

three things: ONE in our last KS the Dragons were the single most popular add-ons - every dragon beat out every non-dragon. TWO at all 3 conventions we have done since the KS fulfillment concluded, we sold out of every dragon we brought, and online & Distributor sales are high. THREE: for the last year you people have been begging us to put every dragon we have in Bones to make them affordable.

and

We measure popularity in sales, not comments

**czakk**

Do UK kickstarters have to collect VAT on euro and UK pledges?

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decker_cky wrote:

The other thing Reaper should look into is getting a shipping discount. Not sure USPS does shipping discounts, but all the private companies do, and for the volume Reaper is shipping, they should get more than enough discount to be cheaper than USPS, at least internationally. Here's a discussion with some details, though it's a few years old:
http://forums.oscommerce.com/topic/74335-discounted-shipping-rates-fedexups/page__st__20

Reaper has said a couple of times that USPS won't give them a discount (and packages for bones don't qualify for the super cheap bulk mail). They've also said that at their volumes fed ex and UPS are more expensive than USPS for international stuff. I'll go dig up the quote.

**czakk**

decker_cky wrote:
"

edit: By Reaper's graph, they spent about $445k on shipping last kickstarter. There's pretty much no chance they can't get hefty discounts with that quantity of shipping.

Do you think they forgot to phone their rep or something? They got a quote from UPS last time and used it for us Canadian folks instead of USPS.

Having a hard time tracking down the quotes, that kickstarter comments section is a pita to search.

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ced1106 wrote:
Phobos wrote:
The cold hard truth is that they simply don't need International customers.

Volume, volume, volume (economically, not just girthically (:

It's unfortunate that America's so darn big. I think it's less that the postage rates internationally are high, it's that domestic prices for US companies are so low. US taxpayers subsidize the USPS, and the competition has to lower its prices to be, well, competitive -- within the United States. You're also not going to hear an international complain that a KS is in USD, yet one of the first guidelines for non-US KS is to find some way to offer their KS in USD because, otherwise, the Americans won't look at your KS. If you look at Mantic, a UK based company, its KS says "Halethorpe, MD" -- and its currency is in USD! I also notice the division is between US and international. Yet, for the US, there is only one currency, only one set of postal forms to fill out, while, internationally, there are, what, hundred of countries? Everyone mentions shipping costs, but the postage overhead of 100 customers in *one* country is much less than than 100 customers in a hundred *different* countries. I'd also bet that the *time* it took to handle the international shipments took disproportionally longer than domestic, delaying the launch of KS2. Heck, Reaper even had a representative of UPS (?) for Canada (?) at their site, and they didn't get the forms right!

I put the blame more on our governments than Reaper. Protectionism... customs... VAT... postal forms... they're all barriers to international commerce, which, imo, ultimately benefits consumers worldwide.

Yeah, it took UPS a couple of tries to get us our packages in Canada.

Technically speaking though, VAT isn't a barrier to trade. That's why those free-trade fanatics at the OECD love VAT taxes.

As a consumer in Canada, I can either buy reaper locally, and pay GST, or buy from reaper directly and pay GST on the parcel once it crosses the border. As long as the tax is implemented across the board and not selectively my choices as a consumer shouldn't be distorted by the tax.

It may change my mind about whether to spend the money at all of course. I could decide to save it or something.

Hmmm - even more technically speaking, there is a school of thought in the US that considers VAT to be a "free trade barrier", because they are the only developed country in the world who doesn't have a VAT tax and instead goes with sales taxes and other none rebateable taxes. But the WTO, the OECD, NAFTA etc... beg to differ

-----

Anyhoo, the next stretch goal apparently has fewer than 5 heads and more than 2 eyes, according to a teaser from the reaperpeeps. Some type of calvalry?

**czakk**

There is that giant spider mini.. http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/spider/price/03180#detail/03180_p_1_mr

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A bit more on why reaper is charging shipping now rather than waiting a year:

Reaper Miniatures 14 minutes ago

@Scott - here's some of why we won't be able to wait for postage - We had a significant number of non-responses to the pledge manager last time, which has caused some problems. We anticipate that not everyone takes the time to educate themselves about the precise requirements, so a number of backers will either never realize, or forget, that they need to reply to our e-mail notifying them to pay shipping now. We will hold their parcels, waiting for payment, which takes up space, and requires a lot more labor than "pre-paid, ok to ship the instant it is ready". A number of those backers will be more uspet that we have come back and "demanded" more money, and they will report us for fraud by taking their money and refusing to ship.

I know that's unfair, and it may only be 1% of overseas backers, but our experiences with the previous Kick starter showed us that not everybody is reasonable about these things, and we have to make policies that are simple, easy to understand, and clear. It hurts the ones like you, that take the time work with us and understand, and for that, we apologize.

Reaper Miniatures 19 minutes ago

@Scott - We will not be able to introduce a mechanism to wait for shipping until then - here's the quick & dirty version.
If we charge today $50 and it becomes $60, we eat $10 per backer, which is far better than we did last time, and is well within our calculated margins of error. Last time we ate several hundred thousand dollars because of both gross under-calculation and rate hikes.

**czakk**

Bit of an answer as to why they aren't using a european distributor / reshipper:

Reaper Miniatures 2 minutes ago

@Hubert: We have looked into that kind of possibility - and it works very well if you have 1 or 2 items. We have complex orders, which can have dozens of items. In a nutshell, the fee they charge you to fulfill orders for you increases as the # of possible items in the orders goes up. We could have done so, and limited EU backers to Core Set Only, but felt that even more unfair than a variance in shipping rates. We knew coming in to this that it would hurt us with overseas pledgers, and would be unpopular. I should note that we appreciate that you are opening a dialogue with us, instead of the ranting that we sometimes receive. We are more than happy to talk about our reasons.

**czakk**

Sean_OBrien wrote:
Looking at the backer list, it appears about half the backers are from the US, and even at lower rates, a few kilos of tin isnt cheap to ship.

Aside from the cheaper shipping in the UK, if UK kickstarters are required to include VAT, that might even out the cost of shipping to the US, the creators don't have to pay 20% to the government and can use that for shipping.

**czakk**

Is that the big $45 goroloth or the smaller 30 dollar one?

Edit

It's the big one.

**czakk**

It got answered on the comments of the KS, it's the big goroloth. I think someone did the math and expansion #1 is about $360 in metal.

**czakk**

judgedoug wrote:
General Seric wrote:
highlord tamburlaine wrote:

I'd like updates coming even if it's WIPs of new sculpts, alternative shots, something- just keep interest drummed up. Not every update has to have new shinies. Mantic's pretty good about this- keeping you informed, showing off what's coming, teasing future stretches... I'd like to see something similar from Reaper.

I think part of the problem for this is that, unlike the first Kickstarter, they really aren't doing any new sculpts (other than the gelatinous cube). Which seems odd to me, as some of the new sculpts last time were in the end some of my favorites of them all, but maybe they are afraid that some will not get done like last time with the 2 elf sculpts.

What happened with the elf sculpts?

Artist never turned them in, they had to make new ones.

There are actually a number of new sculpts, they just all appeared within the first day instead of getting teased out because of the massive surge, and they are already sculpted instead of being concept art:

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/51663-ks-bones-ii-list-of-miniatures/

For ex (not an exhaustive list):

75,000 - Narthrax Dragon

01 - Couldn´t find (NEW MINIATURE Julie Guthrie)

125,000 - Lords of Darkness (possibly all NEW MINIATURES)

01 - Couldn´t find

02 - Couldn´t find

03 - Couldn´t find

04 - Couldn´t find

05 - Couldn´t find

06 - Couldn´t find

**czakk**

Pretty reasonable shipping for me up to Canada. 40 bucks for 400 dollars worth of minis.

**czakk**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
So I'm currently in for The $12 add on dragon, the core set and I'm thinking about grabbing the core set expansion. I hear tell that the Bones, even for their price... aren't exactly the best, and don't take paint very well. I suppose I'm just trying to talk myself out of $162.... any one have more info? Especially someone who pledged on the last Bones KS?

The PVC plastic used to make the bones is hydrophobic - this means water beads up on the minis. So, if you water your basecoat down, you'll get bad coverage and the paint won't take. Same result if you just slap a wash on.

However, it takes undiluted paint well. Just wash them in soapy water, dry them, and base coat them. Once the base coat is on you can thin your paint down however you like.

Like the other folks have said, buy a couple to see for yourself. I don't think there is anything on the market that can beat their quality at their price point.

**czakk**

We need the thread title to be updated.

**czakk**

Only 15k until the next goal and reveal.

**czakk**

A deal on paint and some bone cavalry. I'm happy. And some shorter stretch goals coming up as well.

We need the thread title updated again

**czakk**

That dwarf on a bear is going to fight my Tre Manor goblin on a bear.

Another little mini stretch goal:

Once again we've drawn a Trick- another surprise miniature added to your Core Set!
This time, It's Trick-or-Treat Mr. Bones! If we can reach $1,745,000, every Core Set gets a our little mascot added - there's no need for you to do anything else!

To help you calculate your pledge, you can use this link: https://ks.reapermini.com/ Simply register or log in, and start playing around! It won't permanently lock in your choices at this time, it's a tool to help you calculate your pledge and (if applicable) postage.

To make it easier for you to track, dark purple images will be added to your Core Set, light purple are Extra copies of those rewards, ochre ones are Expansion 1, orange ones will be available as additional rewards simply by increasing your pledge, and Expansion Set #2 is on a Blue background! If it gets overwhelming the Pledge Claculator can help you keep track of it all at https://ks.reapermini.com/ It saves your pledge, so you don't have to remember what you werepledging for, but it;s flexible enough that you can make changes to your pledge at any time!

Follow along with us on the map, as Mister Bones goes Trick-or-Treating, and be sure to follow us on twitter @Reapermini, talk about the Kickstarter using #ReaperBones, Like us on FaceBook, and join our forums at reapermini.com/forum to join in the conversation!

THANK YOU!

~Reaper

**czakk**

I think my goblin is in trouble....

More dwarf riders would be awesome. I didn't know they had 3 more sculpts.

**czakk**

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A2s4X37CYAI6Xd0.jpg:large
http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2013/5/20/644d4ab8daef3c34ba655cbecf37087a_61721.jpg

I have some other photos kicking around, I'll try to dig up.

By coincidence, the gnoll in that photo is being bonesified in this kickstarter.

**czakk**

Reaper posted some joke concept art:

Creator Reaper Miniatures 9 minutes ago

Naponatom's concept art for the perfect miniature - Sophie riding a Bellydancer Terrasque eating waffles, which is riding Kaladrax, which is riding in a gazebo.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2877/10299018754_e62dffe18b_o.jpg

Also the big paizo email has gone out apparently. Should see an uptick in backers off of that.

**czakk**

Phobos wrote:
frozenwastes wrote:
There really isn't a difference between getting product for funding production and getting product on pre-order.

There is a difference between helping fund a project that would not otherwise be made without the funding, and simply ordering something that's going to be made regardless.

You can get an idea of how many bones figures would have been made without the kickstarter by looking at the growth of reaper's legendary encounters prepainted line. They use the same moulds and are pressed in the same factory. It took reaper years and years to get the tiny amount of moulds they had.

**czakk**

Try the pledge manager - you can't get down to individual models in the core set but you can get smaller groups.

**czakk**

So buy the paints?

**czakk**

Bones 2 model show case video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXPxGcIL0gA

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Ruins teaser photo

**czakk**

Taarnak wrote:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Vic's Paint, Bobby Jackson's Sculpt, Reaper Bones Plastic

now that's a match made in heaven

Tre Manor sculpt, I think. Will check and confirm...

Other than that, agreed.

~Eric

Edit 2: Listed as Bobby J on Reaper's site. My mistake. Very Manor-ish though...

Tre has done many of the other black orcs for reaper though.

**czakk**

Igloo wrote:
Is there any particular reason it will be over a year for most of this stuff to ship?

It takes time to have the steel moulds cut, and then the miniatures made, and then shipped over from china and then mailed out from reaper.

**czakk**

Those bathalians are pretty sizable (triangles at 1/2 and 1 inch):

**czakk**

Joyboozer wrote:
Has there been anything more about terrain other than just the teaser in the pic? It's all I'm holding onto my pledge for.

Nothing so far other than the teaser photos.

Just broke 2 million and the freebee bases were added.

**czakk**

We've hit the next goal and revealed a new stretch goal:

We have now Unlocked the Angels in Expansion Set 2!

Next up - The Tentacular Aliens in Expansion Set 3!

And following this - We Bring to you Mashaaf - Great Old One!

She's a great enormous worm-like creature, suitable as a Lovecraftian horror, the Demon Lord of Charnel Grubs, or the Mother of all Devouring Worms! Once we reach $2,275,000, she can be yours by simply increasing you pledge by $12!!

But there's More to come!

We've still got more coming for the Core Set!

More Options!

More things to fill out the Expansions!

But we need your help to achieve these new goals!

Be sure to follow us on Twitter @Reapermini, talk about the Kickstarter using #ReaperBones, Like us on FaceBook, talk about us on every forum you can, and join our forums at reapermini.com/forum to join in the conversation! The more backers we get, the more sweet rewards we unlock for you!

To make it easier for you to track, Dark Purple images will be added to your Core Set, Light Purple are Extra copies of those rewards, Ochre ones are Expansion 1, Orange ones will be available as additional rewards simply by increasing your pledge, Expansion Set #2 is on a Blue background, and Expansion Set #3 is Red!

If it gets overwhelming the Pledge Claculator can help you keep track of it all at https://ks.reapermini.com/ It saves your pledge, so you don't have to remember what you were pledging for, but it's flexible enough that you can make changes to your pledge at any time! For help with the Pledge Calculator - please see our FAQ on the Home Tab.

THANK YOU!

**czakk**

New map segment too!

Spoiler:

**czakk**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

adhuin wrote:
EDIT: necroquotation removed

Problems with logins and seeing some old bad posts.

Edit - and reply removed. No worries eh.