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I'm really looking forward to more troops and cavalry. But, as Azazel pointed out, this round of Reaper KS Magic feels like a lot less of a great deal.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

ced1106 wrote:
I thought I asked already, but any thoughts on the 2nd paint set?

I generally like Reaper's paints, and that includes the HD line. They are designed as a high coverage base paint, and they do the part well. Even when thinned down for airbrushing, they seem to cover faster than regular paints. These particular colors are new, so I havent had a chance to try them, but the rest have been quite good...especially when doing base coat work in those tough colors like yellows and reds.

Much appreciated!

Any thoughts on the color selections of set 2 vs. set 1? Another backer commented that set 2 would make good base color coats since their colors are more subdued. The black and white can be used as mixing.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'm really looking forward to more troops and cavalry. But, as Azazel pointed out, this round of Reaper KS Magic feels like a lot less of a great deal.

It's still a great deal in the strictest sense - and in raw numbers/size, but the "grab-bag" element that worked so well in Bones 1 works a lot less well when the price is more than doubled. With the first campaign, there were a lot of figures that I'm not especially interested in, but at the price? Sure, whatever, I'll take them, no problem. This time around, the figures I don't want are almost as relevant as the ones I do want - like Expansion 1 - only interested in about half of them. So while on paper, it's still a deal - is it worthwhile for me to buy them all, pay for them all to ship, and a year in advance? I'm just not sure yet. Especially when there's a lot of other things I could do with that money right now...

For me clutter is an issue... I'm trying to avoid having minis lying around that I have no direct, immediate use for. I don't like having random junk lying around, if I can't see a use for it at any point in the next 5 years, into the bin/ ebay /charity shop it goes.

So, down to $1 pledge for now and I'll see if there's anything I want to add when the pledge manager rolls out that will come in under the customs limit and be reasonably OK for shipping.

 pretre wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
Is it me or does it seem like this kickstarter is going really slow? It broke 1 mil in 24 hours, and now just under a week later it's done less than half that.

It's you. Most KS start big and slope down until the end or start small and explode. I haven't seen a lot of solid all the way through KSs.





Bones I was super slow until the end.

I'm just gonna quote this to remind everyone saying that this kickstarter feels underwhelming. We're only 15 days in. 15 days into Bones 1 it was August 7th, and they had just unlocked the ogres and gnoll archer option and were looking to unlock the townsfolk and fire elementals freebies.

Take a look at the spoilered image below. See how many figures are below the townsfolk and fire elementals? See how few are above them? We'll get lots of new stuff as this campaign goes on.

 scarletsquig wrote:
For me clutter is an issue... I'm trying to avoid having minis lying around that I have no direct, immediate use for. I don't like having random junk lying around, if I can't see a use for it at any point in the next 5 years, into the bin/ ebay /charity shop it goes.

I am disappoint.

I think I'm gonna bail out. Just more I can do with the cash elsewhere for more immediate return.

I'm really pleased with the range of miniatures so far. I can think of several scenarios I'd like to run that include most of these figures, and players can figure it out for the rest of them. It's also very likely I'll have to up my pledge several more times before this is over.

Sway wrote:

I'm just gonna quote this to remind everyone saying that this kickstarter feels underwhelming. We're only 15 days in. 15 days into Bones 1 it was August 7th, and they had just unlocked the ogres and gnoll archer option and were looking to unlock the townsfolk and fire elementals freebies.

Take a look at the spoilered image below. See how many figures are below the townsfolk and fire elementals? See how few are above them? We'll get lots of new stuff as this campaign goes on.

A key difference this time is that they're putting many (most? yet to be seen!) of those additional figures into the $50 expansions, rather than the $100 core.

Oh I don't know... For now I still stand by my previous statement; its kind of slow and underwhelming.

And the more that I think about it, I'm going to retract my other comment about shipping charges internationally. They should at least have a basic idea of what those charges could be or eaten the cost. And these paid add on expansions are starting to rub me the wrong way. Plus there is no Sophie!

Bones one was a true Kickstarter. Kickstarter is to fund projects that would otherwise not be made. Reaper didn't make a lot of money from the first Kickstarter, but they got all the molds for the bones created. And they are certainly making money from those molds right now. Which was the original point.

This Kickstarter feels more to me like a glorified pre order system.

They have got a pledge calculatior that gives you the posyage costs now

https://ks.reapermini.com/login

There really isn't a difference between getting product for funding production and getting product on a pre-order.

I actually think this KS is better than the first one. Sure, less miniatures right now, but it seems more focused and less overwhelming. I didn't pledge on the first one, I am pledging on this one. When they make expansion 1 available as individual options like they did for core, I'll be adding more.

Reaper posted some joke concept art:

Creator Reaper Miniatures 9 minutes ago

Naponatom's concept art for the perfect miniature - Sophie riding a Bellydancer Terrasque eating waffles, which is riding Kaladrax, which is riding in a gazebo.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2877/10299018754_e62dffe18b_o.jpg

Also the big paizo email has gone out apparently. Should see an uptick in backers off of that.

 frozenwastes wrote:
There really isn't a difference between getting product for funding production and getting product on pre-order.

There is a difference between helping fund a project that would not otherwise be made without the funding, and simply ordering something that's going to be made regardless.

And I realize that there is a shipping calculator up right now. But it really should have been there from the start, or better yet a simple flat rate for international customers.

And now that I think about it, the fact that they are charging sales tax to Texas residents is more proof that this is just a pre order.

 Phobos wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
There really isn't a difference between getting product for funding production and getting product on pre-order.

There is a difference between helping fund a project that would not otherwise be made without the funding, and simply ordering something that's going to be made regardless.

You can get an idea of how many bones figures would have been made without the kickstarter by looking at the growth of reaper's legendary encounters prepainted line. They use the same moulds and are pressed in the same factory. It took reaper years and years to get the tiny amount of moulds they had.

Metal molds aren't cheap. You can lose a lot of money on them if you don't know the demand. The current Reaper KS FAQ says, "Lastly there is the risk we will not produce a specific model shown. This will only occur if there is not enough interest in the model measured by the number of backers that actually pledge for a buy in level model."

Maybe Reaper's being overcautious, but it *is* run by accountants. If your customers are willing to fund your project and remove the risk of not knowing demand (as frozenwastes said, that's part of the point of a preorder), why not take this funding? With Reaper's catalog of hundreds of models, it's entirely possible they can make too many metal molds, make molds of the wrong models, etc. Without crowdfunding, they would return to the pre-KS Bones days of erring on the side of making few plastic molds and sticking to metal. If you want to see the result of that business decision, just look at RAFM. Sure, it's easy to post on a forum that Reaper should do such-and-such a business decision, but it's easy to do this with NOT your money.

I'm still staying at the $200 mark. I might add a little more if needed.

Currently getting the core, lords of darkness, heroes and villains, cube, water elementals, dungeon decor 2 and the 1st expansion.

 Phobos wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
There really isn't a difference between getting product for funding production and getting product on pre-order.

There is a difference between helping fund a project that would not otherwise be made without the funding, and simply ordering something that's going to be made regardless.

And in the case of Reaper, it would not be. Certainly not at this rate. As has been pointed out, the first 30 Legendary Encounters prepaints took a couple years to come out and the first 16 bones that came out pre-kickstarter took like 6 months to be followed up by another 14 or so. Without the Kickstarters, they'd probably add a couple dozen a year and that would be it.

And now that I think about it, the fact that they are charging sales tax to Texas residents is more proof that this is just a pre order.

Or their jurisdictions tax code demands it?

Any and every time you charge for product in advance of general release it is a pre-order. Whether it's through your own website, via crowdfunding or some other mysterious process. Your or my perception of whether a given project would happen anyway is 100% irrelevant.

Fortunately for the industry as a whole, what works will be what continues and Kickstarters don't have to line up with people's ideals or the stories they tell themselves about how things should be if only companies used crowdfunding in some noble and pure way.

 Phobos wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
There really isn't a difference between getting product for funding production and getting product on pre-order.

There is a difference between helping fund a project that would not otherwise be made without the funding, and simply ordering something that's going to be made regardless.

And I realize that there is a shipping calculator up right now. But it really should have been there from the start, or better yet a simple flat rate for international customers.

And now that I think about it, the fact that they are charging sales tax to Texas residents is more proof that this is just a pre order.

They are required by law to charge sales tax to texas residents..

 Phobos wrote:
Oh I don't know... For now I still stand by my previous statement; its kind of slow and underwhelming.

And the more that I think about it, I'm going to retract my other comment about shipping charges internationally. They should at least have a basic idea of what those charges could be or eaten the cost. And these paid add on expansions are starting to rub me the wrong way. Plus there is no Sophie!

Bones one was a true Kickstarter. Kickstarter is to fund projects that would otherwise not be made. Reaper didn't make a lot of money from the first Kickstarter, but they got all the molds for the bones created. And they are certainly making money from those molds right now. Which was the original point.

This Kickstarter feels more to me like a glorified pre order system.

You are correct in many ways. They didn't make a lot of profit, but they funded all of the figures, added a wing to the warehouse, and bought "Thomas" the plastic machine with the money they made. It looks like this time they're not only looking to fund the figures, but also add a few more machines (which, according to Tre' KS doesn't like, but they're not exactly consistent with their enforcement of their "rules" at the best of times..)

Thanks Azazelx


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Phobos wrote:
Oh I don't know... For now I still stand by my previous statement; its kind of slow and underwhelming.

And the more that I think about it, I'm going to retract my other comment about shipping charges internationally. They should at least have a basic idea of what those charges could be or eaten the cost. And these paid add on expansions are starting to rub me the wrong way. Plus there is no Sophie!

Bones one was a true Kickstarter. Kickstarter is to fund projects that would otherwise not be made. Reaper didn't make a lot of money from the first Kickstarter, but they got all the molds for the bones created. And they are certainly making money from those molds right now. Which was the original point.

This Kickstarter feels more to me like a glorified pre order system.

I think I would prefer some kind of pre order system where I could pick out the individual models I want. There are many models I would love to order but many more that I have no intrest in. It just isn't worth it for me to buy a load of models I will never touch no matter how good of a deal they are.

Try the pledge manager - you can't get down to individual models in the core set but you can get smaller groups.

Im flabbergasted by everyone.

KS2 is like, what, a million dollars and 50 models ahead of where KS1 was at the same point?

But that's why KS1 made 75% of it's money in the last few days... a lot of complaining that 90 cents is just too much to pay for a miniature! But when it's 75 cents, i'm all in!

I have a Wave 1 shipping pledge that I have to drop because I just found out my wife's expecting twins so money's going to be tight. Still going to pick up a couple of kraken since money's not that tight , but I'll be shifting to a $1 pledge.

If anyone's interested in trying to slid in to my Wave 1 slot PM me so we can set up a time. Of course first come first serve. If I don't hear anything I'll be dropping at 10:00 EST tonight.

I just dropped my wave 1 $100 spot. Hopefully it sticks around for someone here to grab!

 judgedoug wrote:
Im flabbergasted by everyone.

KS2 is like, what, a million dollars and 50 models ahead of where KS1 was at the same point?

But that's why KS1 made 75% of it's money in the last few days... a lot of complaining that 90 cents is just too much to pay for a miniature! But when it's 75 cents, i'm all in!

The additional S&H and import fees for the ROW customers are a concern - so people are looking for possibly even more value per mini to offset that.

A lot of it is just the mid-KS duldrums. Especially after such an explosive opening. Compared to the first KS which started slow and built up more and more buzz and momentum all the way to the end.

Indeed - I'm stuck here a bit, in that as a ROW pledger I've worked out that it will cost over $200 to get the $100 core set shipped to me in the UK and taxed. If I want to add stuff on, this lowers the (relative) cost of the shipping, but pushes up the taxable amount in dangerous territory.

I should point out that I only went for the core set in Bones 1, and that if I do the same now this will only cost me about $30 more than last time. The difference is more one of perception - I know about the hidden costs more in advance, and most stretch goals don't relate to the core set this time.

 carlos13th wrote:
I think I would prefer some kind of pre order system where I could pick out the individual models I want. There are many models I would love to order but many more that I have no intrest in. It just isn't worth it for me to buy a load of models I will never touch no matter how good of a deal they are.

No disagreements here! I mean, aside from KS, that's (almost) how you bought Reaper miniatures most of the time -- individual blisters (or themed boxed sets), rather than a bulk purchase!

I wouldn't be surprised if Reaper looks at the KS2 ROW pledges and feedback, and looks more closely into a EU distributors / fulfillment partner, or at least the impact of ROW on KS2. I don't know if they're complacent with the US market, or have been seeing how Mantic and CMON have been taking over the miniature markets overseas.

Especially if you missed KS1, you can go to the Reaper online store, or your xLGS, and compare buying the mini's individually vs. the KS2 "bulk purchase". Reaper online store and many OLGS have free shipping thresholds, so might be cheaper (especially if you want some non-KS Bones in your gaming order!). Reaper will have a "12 Days of Reaper" promotion in December as well. Get your free Christmas Wreath paint sample! (:

BONES TERRAIN!!!! HELLO SHIPPING CONTAINERS!



Also, Numenéra figures.

Bones shipping container.

*ahem*

Hell yes!

Hopefully the damn thing is hollow and doesn't weigh a ton.