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Have to agree that a lack of concrete shipping fees is worrying, not to mention dodgy, as it feels like they can just charge what they want when the campaign is well over and done with. I'd love to pledge, but how much is it going to set us unfortunates back in shipping?

I'm in at $200 now, but if I don't have an idea on the shipping before the end, I am going to have to drop that down to the core set just to make sure that I keep inside the budget I have put aside for this

 BrookM wrote:
Have to agree that a lack of concrete shipping fees is worrying, not to mention dodgy, as it feels like they can just charge what they want when the campaign is well over and done with. I'd love to pledge, but how much is it going to set us unfortunates back in shipping?

They're not going to charge what they want,

they clearly say they're going to charge the actual cost (ie the sticker price of the postage)

(not to say that this won't be high, and it is a scary prospect, but that's the reality of international shipping nowadays)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Have to agree that a lack of concrete shipping fees is worrying, not to mention dodgy, as it feels like they can just charge what they want when the campaign is well over and done with. I'd love to pledge, but how much is it going to set us unfortunates back in shipping?

They're not going to charge what they want,

they clearly say they're going to charge the actual cost (ie the sticker price of the postage)

(not to say that this won't be high, and it is a scary prospect, but that's the reality of international shipping nowadays)

That does suck.. I feel for you ROW guys and gals.. Shipping outside our borders is beyond stupid for the price they charge..

Hmm.
The reality of shipping costs is starting to make me think.
The actual shipping cost for the Vampire package + addons I got would have been in the vicinity of $80 - depending on weight, which is only going to go up as the kickstarter goes along

(Assuming a 45x30x20 cm box weighing 5kg, which I think is roughly what my Vampire bundle came in, but will weigh when I get home)

I missed the first bones KS due to personal finance issues and been kicking myself ever since. Absolutely not missing it this time around, I got in for wave 1 a half hour after it opened.

Many of the complaints I've seen about shipping are silly to me. Just Looney-Toons preposterous. I can understand hesitation because of not knowing the cost, and I can understand how knowing that shipping and customs fees might possibly nearly double the amount you pay would turn it from an amazing deal to a not-good-enough-for-me deal, I get that, I really do and I sympathize. But more than that I've seen a lot of outright hate on various forums about having to pay the ACTUAL shipping cost, as though it's somehow totally unfair and how DARE Reaper even THINK of charging the ACTUAL, EXACT amount that it ACTUALLY costs to ship the EXACT package to your EXACT address! Now it's "extortionate", it's gone from unfair to illegal! Silly, hyperbolic nonsense.

It sucks, I'm personally in the free shipping for this one, but I've certainly been on the receiving end enough times ordering items from UK, EU and Oz Kickstarters and online shops. It ain't fun, but there's this thing called the ocean in the way that is kinda costly to move stuff across, especially when it's not in bulk. I doubt I'd blindly pledge without having a better understanding of what I'd have to pay in shipping and fees either, but it's not like they're overcharging you. They aren't quoting a ridiculously high price just to be safe. Certainly isn't "extorionate." it's literally the exact opposite, you're going to pay the exact, real amount it's going to cost. Based on some of the PMs people have posted in various forums it sounds like Reaper is working to figure the best way to ship to different countries.

It sucks and it sucks a lot, but thems 'da breaks, kid. Disapointment in not getting nearly so great a deal just because of geography? Yup, totally justified. Hate-spewing at Reaper just because they learned from their last kickstarter that international shipping will be incredibly costly and problematic? Disgusting.

Lemures, Osyluth, and Gelugon. Oh my.

 Kalamadea wrote:
It sucks and it sucks a lot, but thems 'da breaks, kid. Disapointment in not getting nearly so great a deal just because of geography? Yup, totally justified. Hate-spewing at Reaper just because they learned from their last kickstarter that international shipping will be incredibly costly and problematic? Disgusting.

You're shooting flies with a bazooka, friend. Nowhere on this thread do I see the kind of vehement hate you're raving at.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
It sucks and it sucks a lot, but thems 'da breaks, kid. Disapointment in not getting nearly so great a deal just because of geography? Yup, totally justified. Hate-spewing at Reaper just because they learned from their last kickstarter that international shipping will be incredibly costly and problematic? Disgusting.

You're shooting flies with a bazooka, friend. Nowhere on this thread do I see the kind of vehement hate you're raving at.

Indeed.

Though i dont see him complaining about row backers subsidising the free us shipping and then having to pay the full row shipping as well

Hmm, does this free US shipping also include army postal thingies that are overseas?

 BrookM wrote:
Hmm, does this free US shipping also include army postal thingies that are overseas?

You mean APO addresses? If they are using the US Postal Service I would think it would, but UPS and FEDEX types don't ship to an APO.

Best ask Reaper for a real answer.

Thanks, this might be worth looking into then, as shipping from the UK or Germany is hella cheaper than from the US.

How much is it to send a mid-size box in the mail in the US? Unless it's free Reaper is obviously absorbing huge costs that the rest of the world has to subsidize. Reaper could easily tell US backers they have to pay shipping too and, really, with the deals and the insanity, I doubt it would affect their campaign much. 1st time as an experiment, yeah, ok. 2nd campaign though, they already know it's gonna hit a high amount.

It's just so annoying when people tell us not to complain about shipping.

greywulf wrote:
How much is it to send a mid-size box in the mail in the US? Unless it's free Reaper is obviously absorbing huge costs that the rest of the world has to subsidize. Reaper could easily tell US backers they have to pay shipping too and, really, with the deals and the insanity, I doubt it would affect their campaign much. 1st time as an experiment, yeah, ok. 2nd campaign though, they already know it's gonna hit a high amount.

It's just so annoying when people tell us not to complain about shipping.

Kickstarter doesn't allow US campaigns to charge US shipping though. So presumably the shipping estimate is factored/absorbed into the package value.

I also think that they get internal shipping pretty cheap in bulk, but no such luck with international.

I've got a feeling they're making a killing either way and they could still easily cover shipping state-side.

I think it also has to do with them having gotten it hard from behind when the US postal services upped their non-US shipping costs in between the end of the campaign and the actual shipping phase.

People are estimating $65 to ship to the UK based on the bones 1 size/dimensions at current USPS rates.. customs should be around $35 so I think I'm looking at around $200 total for the $100 pledge level.

Will hang on to the early bird I have until the end of the campaign and then make a more informed decision about whether to drop it or not... think I'd need a core set with about 300 minis in it to make it worthwhile.

I might bail and go for a $1 pledge with add-ons totalling less than $60.. no customs fees, only get stuff I want and shipping should be vastly less.

They will be posting a calculator in the next week or so in order to help lock down the shipping costs. One of the issues that you need to remember when considering shipping is that they greatly expanded access to options in the campaign.

If someone backed for just a few dragons, they might only pledge $30 or so, but shipping to Europe or Australia will probably exceed that. I dont think it will end up being much more than $50 or so per backer though, as I have shipped a lot of things to far flung corners and it only gets much above that when things get really bulky.

Shipping fees are a worry, the import taxes I've paid on stuff like zombicide and the first bones were bad enough. If shipping ends up being $60 then suddenly the cost of the core set is doubled by the time it's delivered and the whole thing isn't such a great deal.
That being said I'm still in. I just wish reaper had a UK distributor for this stuff so that you could buy it in the shops over here. Is there even an online vendor that sells Bones in the UK?

I really don't get why every kickstarter has the same "worries" about international shipping. It sucks that it's so expensive, but it's expensive on everything due to price increase and there is absolutely no way around it.. it should be no surprise imo.

In either case, this kickstarter looks awesome so far.

I do also have to remember that while shipping + VAT will almost certainly double anything I pledge, as long as the majority of the models interest me this will still be far, FAR cheaper than picking these up in UK shops.

The Orc's Nest in London is charging a straight 1:1 for $:£ on model prices for Bones - that $3.00 for a vampire becomes £3. And honestly, that's not that much cheaper than ordering something in metal from local indies - most Heresy human-sized models are £3.20 right now, for example.

I'm just perplexed as to why CoolMiniOrNot was able to sort out a local distributor for Europe with minimal hassle, and Reaper isn't. CoolMini's thing is roughly $25 extra in shipping per $100 pledge, no VAT or extra surprise fees from the postman!

 scarletsquig wrote:


I might bail and go for a $1 pledge with add-ons totalling less than $60.. no customs fees, only get stuff I want and shipping should be vastly less.

That's actually what Ive done, dropped down and gave up my eb wave 1, I weighed up the number of models i liked vs the number that I'd never use and decided id just get the add on's which interest me.

So far its the Vampires, Dragon and Hill Giants all of which i have a use for. Plus there's Mars attacks coming up and I was thinking about spending more on the Darkland's stuff.

I think i mentioned in the other thread the international shipping was a concern having never ordered over seas before in this way. Each other ks ive backed has used a European distributor to sort this stuff out.

Could someone please define "high-quality plastic"? I shouldn't have to ask but after Mantic and McVey, I really do.

^ Basically mage knight or heroclix sort of plastic, but without the pre-painting.

It holds detail well enough, but is bendy and rubbery.

The material is at its best for larger minis where it really shines in terms of quality/ value/ ease of assembly.

greywulf wrote:
How much is it to send a mid-size box in the mail in the US? Unless it's free Reaper is obviously absorbing huge costs that the rest of the world has to subsidize. Reaper could easily tell US backers they have to pay shipping too and, really, with the deals and the insanity, I doubt it would affect their campaign much. 1st time as an experiment, yeah, ok. 2nd campaign though, they already know it's gonna hit a high amount.

It's just so annoying when people tell us not to complain about shipping.

Not very much at all due to volume and economy of scale. My workplace sends a few hundred packages per day via UPS and we have negotiated rates, which can be up to 90% off (they are negotiated per service level based on our volume of packages) and include other incentives (for example, our 3-Day Guaranteed Air rates are the same as Ground rates due to our company's requirement to be able to ship anywhere in the USA in 3 days). UPS, Fedex, and USPS are all brutally competitive right now for business contracts. I could easily see Reaper having at least a 50% off UPS negotiated rate, which would make a box about that size cost less than 5 dollars to ship via 1-5 day Ground.

 Kirasu wrote:
I really don't get why every kickstarter has the same "worries" about international shipping. It sucks that it's so expensive, but it's expensive on everything due to price increase and there is absolutely no way around it.. it should be no surprise imo.

There are ways around some of the cost and a lot of the hassle if only companies want to make the effort. See all CMON Kickstarters. And Secret Weapon, too. For others, international orders seem to be an afterthought and I think it's not completely outrageous to feel miffed when you're treated as a second-class customer. In this particular case, it seems that international backers even subsidize US backers, which is outrageous to say the least. Maybe that's not what's going on, but Reaper really could be more clear on it.

International backers are not subsidizing US shipment.


They have stated international shipping is AT COST. If that is true, and you have no legitimate evidence to support it is not true, then there are NO extra funds from that shipping to subsidize US shipping costs.

How much clearer does this need to be?

I agree it's frustrating and possibly outrageous but I've not backed international kickstarters because of the same thing happening.

Seems to be the common place thing to do, ship domestically for free and then make international people pay crazy fees. In my own auctions I won't even ship to places like australia due to international shipping costs (unless you really want to pay 50$ for something small..)

Not saying it's right, but it's almost expected nowadays to pay out the nose for international shipping.

 Breotan wrote:
Could someone please define "high-quality plastic"? I shouldn't have to ask but after Mantic and McVey, I really do.

The Bones stuff I have is VERY soft as in you can bend it. It is more like a what I consider a toy plastic instead of a miniature plastic BUT the detail isn't that bad. I would consider it worse than Sedition Wars but it depends on what you like I suppose.

 scarletsquig wrote:


I might bail and go for a $1 pledge with add-ons totalling less than $60.. no customs fees, only get stuff I want and shipping should be vastly less.

I went form $1 to $100 to get 1st wave shipping but the add ons are starting to look more attractive to me than the core..I dunno. Going to wait on my current level for a few more days to see what pops up.

I would think that shipping would still make Bones an excellent deal.

 CptJake wrote:
International backers are not subsidizing US shipment.


They have stated international shipping is AT COST. If that is true, and you have no legitimate evidence to support it is not true, then there are NO extra funds from that shipping to subsidize US shipping costs.

How much clearer does this need to be?

I just think that people don't want to believe how insane international shipping is nowadays.