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Hey all,

I apologize if this thread has already been created, I had a hard time finding one like it, but I could be wrong!

I bought my first Dark Eldar model today, a Raider. I really like the feel of their army, and I think it would be a lot of fun to play, but I want to know what people's thoughts are on it. I have seen very few Dark Eldar players in general, but even fewer without Eldar allies or similar. Are they viable alone, or at all in the new 6th? I don't expect them to be hyper-competitive or I'd see them more in tournaments, but then again I've heard that Necrons and Chaos aren't hyper competitive, but I still see them do relatively well.

Also, would it be worth trying to build an army now, or is the 6th edition codex close enough on the horizon that it's not worth it?

Cheers,
Chris

6th ed Dark Eldar will probably need to wait till next year around the same time.

Honestly all Dark Eldar vehicles will probably end up spending more time on painting than them actually being on the table.

All DE vehicles are tradeoff types, more poison or more anti-tank? Raiders are anti-tank as main.
BUT, it really comes down to what you are trying to transport, 5 man vs 10 man.

Dark Eldar are super duper hard to play, and with everything ignoring cover nowadays make them a steep curve.

Dark eldar are even bigger glass hammers now. Wyches can go use their haywire grenades and easily kill a LD in one turn, and MC spam is easily brought down thanks to poisoned weapon spam. However, their FNP rolls are worse than before and now their precious flickerfields aren't that special anymore with every single skimmer getting a jink save. Many of tgeir slecial characters are weaker thanks to their CCW's new AP values, and some character restrictions are annoying (Duke Sliscus, mandrake man and their Imcubi god). While they have gotten stronger, they're also a lot more unforgiving now.

Thanks for the quick responses, guys.

So what it sounds like is that they're how the older Eldar used to be: incredibly fragile, but incredibly deadly, with a steep learning curve. I've got the makings of a few other Armies, so I might start with those before I jump into what sounds like a fairly difficult army to field. A few related questions:

- With armies like Tyranids being pretty underpowered in 6th due to a lot of close combat issues, what makes a fast attack/raider type army like DE better? Or am I missing something there?

- and if one is to build a good DE force, are there any choices that are basically mandatory? Anything that is really an "Oh god whatever you do don't take that" pick? I'm a little partial to a Saim-Hann style skimmer army, with Wyches and a Succubus, maybe with Eldar allies, but is that even remotely viable?

Frankly, I'm not going for tournament level competitive-style lists, but something that's not going to get curbstomped by anyone with a Heldrake or a Riptide or two.

Cheers,
Chris

I don't know a durn thing about Dark Eldar, but I highly recommend checking out the 1d4chan tactics review of their army. They give you a description of every single model and upgrade you can take as well as some basic tactics. As an added bonus, they are really funny (assuming you aren't offended by wildly innappropriate humor).
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Dark_Eldar

Mikillangelo wrote:
I don't know a durn thing about Dark Eldar, but I highly recommend checking out the 1d4chan tactics review of their army. They give you a description of every single model and upgrade you can take as well as some basic tactics. As an added bonus, they are really funny (assuming you aren't offended by wildly innappropriate humor).
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Dark_Eldar

Hahahaha, I'm so glad you brought that up. No, I love 1d4chan, I'll take a look at the tactics guide, thanks!

 SweaterKittens wrote:
incredibly fragile, but incredibly deadly, with a steep learning curve.

Something like that, yes. They can put out a lot (A LOT!) of dakka, they are fast enough to outmanuever almost anything, but make one mistake in placement and you'll be paying heavily in skimmer debris and burned corpses.

I was originally very pessimistic about Dark Eldar at the onset of 6th Edition, due to having to massively change play-style from how my 5th edition list worked, but with tweaking and time I find the army is starting to come back into its own again. You're not likely win a tournament due to the nature of the beast, but you will have good matchups along with the bad.

That said they are indeed extremely fragile. Your toughest vehicle, and you will need vehicles, is armor eleven open topped. Their transports also tend to cripple the unit inside (with only a couple of exceptions) when they get blown up. So if you do play them keep one thing in mind. Never fight a fair fight. Dark Eldar live and die by that motto. If your opponent does not think your list is "beardy" then they are likely winning.

Dark Eldar are a great 6th Edition army. You need to know your list & play style well before you expect to be winning games. DE are not a point & click army like Necrons & Eldar, you need to use tactics.

Use the movement phase to pick your fights & keep your opponent on the back foot.
50% chance of it being Nightfight is very useful to DE.
NightShields are pretty boss on your skimmers.
Allying with cheese Eldar works very.
Poison shots laugh at high toughness units
DE can play the MTO game very well.
The model range is the best in 40k.

Dark eldar are still pretty awesome. My farsight enclave got a very brutal awakening when he spammed ravagers with dark lances and night shields. My broadsides were constantly 6" out of range unless I moved then - making their shots all snap shots.

 gossipmeng wrote:
Dark eldar are still pretty awesome. My farsight enclave got a very brutal awakening when he spammed ravagers with dark lances and night shields. My broadsides were constantly 6" out of range unless I moved then - making their shots all snap shots.

Oh man, that's crazy. It's nice to hear that you can use the DE mobility to do something other than run in and impale yourself on your opponent's gunline, like I have seen so much of in batreps.

Nakor The BlueRider wrote:Dark Eldar are a great 6th Edition army. You need to know your list & play style well before you expect to be winning games. DE are not a point & click army like Necrons & Eldar, you need to use tactics.

Okay, I'm getting that they're very high risk/reward, which is good. I was a bit concerned that with what I'd heard, this edition with it's Eldar/Tau gunlines, fragile armies like DE were going to get stomped.

Nightwolf829 wrote:I was originally very pessimistic about Dark Eldar at the onset of 6th Edition, due to having to massively change play-style from how my 5th edition list worked, but with tweaking and time I find the army is starting to come back into its own again.

Good to know, I'm glad that they weren't made irrelevant by 6th (although frankly, that would be poor planning on GW's part by making armies unplayable by releasing a new edition... but it wouldn't be the first time either, haha).

Everyone else has covered all the salient points, but here are my little additions:

We have the best looking models in the game. Every one of them oozes malevolence and a sense of predatory evil.

Wyches with HWG are excellent anti-tank, and can kill a LR in one assault (dont forget to throw one in the shooting phase!)

We can put out a LOT of shots. Dual Cannon venoms pump out 12 poisoned shots at 36". Most DE players will have 3+ in any list. Thats a lot of shooting from 3 little transports.

Our Anti-Infantry is (almost) all Poisoned, out Anti-Tank is all Lance or Haywire. Bring the rights tools and use them correctly, and you can bathe in the tears of your enemy.

We can be surprisingly durable, despite the nerfing of FNP. Pain Tokens are when the fun times happen. Get an Archons unit (be they Incubi, Grotesques, whatever) FNP and FC, and they will steam roll their way through enemy infantry.

We are the most evil race in the setting. Yes, yes we are. Those Chaos boys are DOING IT WRONG. Khorne is more brutal and violent maybe, Slaanesh may be more depraved (barely) and Tzeentch may be more scheming, ambitious and clever, but we are ALL 3 OF THOSE in almost a big quantities as they are.

Deldar are still great in this ed.

They are more of an upset army now days (an army that will take out otherwise stronger lists since they aren't a big part of the meta which means not many people prepare to fight them) so they won't be winning many tourneys but they can place rather high depending on what armies they are paired against.

Really enjoying my DE this edition! I have found that, since most of my local players have switched to foot-sloogers, that the DE natural speed advantage is even better. I find that I can use my Raiders to pick when and where the fights happen and can be almost garaunteed of having a last round objective grabber/contestor if
I hold one or two raiders full of troops in reserve. Beast packs and Grots are useful as well.

Don't get me wrong, as others have said, they are not easy to use. I actually feel like they are performing the way they always have - glass cannons that will win big or lose big. That said, they are certainly viable.

 SweaterKittens wrote:
Hey all,

I apologize if this thread has already been created, I had a hard time finding one like it, but I could be wrong!

I bought my first Dark Eldar model today, a Raider. I really like the feel of their army, and I think it would be a lot of fun to play, but I want to know what people's thoughts are on it. I have seen very few Dark Eldar players in general, but even fewer without Eldar allies or similar. Are they viable alone, or at all in the new 6th? I don't expect them to be hyper-competitive or I'd see them more in tournaments, but then again I've heard that Necrons and Chaos aren't hyper competitive, but I still see them do relatively well.

Also, would it be worth trying to build an army now, or is the 6th edition codex close enough on the horizon that it's not worth it?

Cheers,
Chris

They are still playable. Have lost some uniqueness with rules like jink being available to all now, but their vehicles are still open topped and can be assaulted out of as always which puts DE up a few steps on The MEQ armies that can only assault out of land raiders now. So definitely a plus. The key is to stay in motion, keep to cover as much as possible and hit hard and fade as best you can. Having an army full of units that have FNP eventually can be very useful despite the FNP roll needing a higher target number. They were and still remain quite the finesse army, but are definitely still eminently usable and fun to play.

Skriker

I am not a great player so my experience with Dark Eldar is mixed.

I got a few wins by allying them up with Tau, people where more focused on the harder hit units and near the end of the game my raiders came in behind their gun lines and started wreaking havoc.

On their own, not so much. Not sure if it was the list I used or just the conditions of the game or my skill level, but I cant seem to get them to work for me. Put them off to the side for now until I get better at the game.

On their own, not so much. Not sure if it was the list I used or just the conditions of the game or my skill level, but I cant seem to get them to work for me. Put them off to the side for now until I get better at the game.

Getting better at the game is a huge key. They have always been difficult even in the best of times. They are NOT a good beginners army.

Im a big dark eldar player and i agree they are a glass cannon and you will only win by use of clever tactics.

There are some really good units in the list and some pretty pathetic ones. Dont get suckered into the 'their is only one way to play' DE.

Go visit thedarkcity.net and you will get some good DE specific advise, especially from mushkilla who likes to play with 27 reavers.

With De you need to always be on the move, pick you fights, surgically extract parts of the opponents army untill it crumbles. Also dont be afraid to try and shake it up.

I once in a 2k list fielded 6 talos - you should have seen the look on the opponents face! They though they were going to be playing a DE venom spam list and not a Heamonculi coven list. ( i didnt tailor my list and didnt know what army they were bringing. They challanged me for a game the following week)

This is absolutely excellent. Thank you everyone so much for the ton of responses. I'm getting that these guys will be ridiculously fun to play, but I should definitely start with something a little easier. I'm a big fan of the concept that you could feasibly pick a non-traditional list with DE and do just as well, being that it's all in the tactics.

And Cammy, thank you for mentioning Thedarkcity.net, I checked it out and it definitely is full of DE specific tactica

Cheers!

From a why to take Samuel thread "because jetbike!"

Still relevent to this thread a year later. DE jetbikes are fun, competitive and frustrating for most opponents. Ignore cover does kill them, but usually after they have killed something first.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t4204-the-big-thread-of-illustrated-battle-reports

That is a link to heaps of illustrated battle reports for dark eldar vs a wide variety of opponents if you want to get ideas for list building and tactics to use.

Don't try to run wyches really anymore.

Unfortunately DE are more glass than cannon.. But they can work with a few builds.

Yes. Why would they not be? Viable? Having fun makes 'em viable. I play them. Four up wounding?...umm yeah. Very viable. Hive Tyrants...done.

DE can still hand out a commoragh-style ass-whipping (and Commoragh does those very well).

They are frail. Very very frail. Don't try to play thyem as skinny marines with pointy ears, because they just can't do that.

The best way to play DE for me is to abandon caution and defensive play. Run them balls-out psychotically aggressive, and make a point of fething over at least one unit a turn.

For example i'm prone to pointing at a unit, preferably one the other player has made a point of digging in, protecting and/or pouring a ton of points into, and then pouring fire onto that unit until there's nothing left but ash. Then picking another unit for the next turn.

Use your mobility and high initiative to your best advantage. Haywire-death his vehicles and pour poison on the passengers like it's from a fire hose.

Turn his prized LRs into craters with focussed volleys of DL fire. Burn down his HQ's.

Razorwings are actually pretty boss at killing flying MCs like Daemons and Nids are fond of.

Kit them with dissies and a cannon, and just pummel that tyrant out of the air. Works well on ground targets too.

Do DE work when both eldar and tau ignore cover and outrange the DE shoting units? On a normal board non city fight board DE would be losing 2-3 venoms per turn , which can be a real blow to them , if they go second.

Well nothing outranges DE on a night fight, that's for sure. But you have to use speed to your advantage if you do get outranged. You can just bring the fight to them in 1 turn.

Dark Eldar is one of the most fun armies in the game, imo. Hell, half my troops are still Wyches and Hellions are they're doing better than ever, despite the changes to CC. As has been stated they are extremely unforgiving and the moment you make a single, slight mistake (in any phase, from an unwise usage of your Dark Lances to moving a little bit in the wrong direction in the movement phase) it may very well cost you the game. There are probably going to be points repeated from previous posts, but I'll give my rundown of what DE is like:

-You need to win the game during the first and second turn.
Now I don't mean that the game needs to literally be over by turn 2, but you damn well need to have the enemy's fate sealed. Deployment, and the first two turns are when you need to lash out at the enemy. Go right for the throat and keep them on the defensive for the rest of the game. In particular it's the early movement phases that'll decide the game: with all the mobility of DE you can easily pick where the firefights happen and where the assaults occur.

Your best defence is a defence-ignoring offence
It's been stated to death here: DE are glass cannons and have very little defensive ability. Never get put on the defensive. We have the skills of Space Marines with the defences of guardsmen (and we don't have the numbers to take the horrific number of casualties that IG can take). Furthermore our vehicles are made out of paper. There is nobody who plays the defensive game worse than us. When things go bad other armies can castle up and weather the storm, but DE cannot. However, pretty much every weapon DE brings to the table ignores the enemy's defences in one way or another. Be it the 4+ poison of splinter weapons, the AP2 of disintegration cannons, or Lances. AV14 is never a problem, nor high Toughness, and even 3+/2+ armour saves are easy to ignore with the right weapons--or we can simply drown them in shots. All those defensive measure that the opponent pays a premium for go to waste against DE's insidious tools.

Your objective is to kill.
Most of the games are objective based, sure. Do you know who's really bad at camping in one place and holding back the enemy? Pretty much every Dark Eldar unit. Abandon any notion of taking and holding objectives early in the game. Every last unit in your army must be brought to bear against the enemy and be entirely focused on gutting the opposition. A tabled enemy army can't score, after all. If the enemy is not tabled but crippled then it will be an easy matter to zoom a few troops to some objectives and ensure victory. If the enemy isn't even crippled at that point then you've probably lost--their firepower will be blowing the last of your boats off the table and your frail troops' bodies will be ground 'neath ceramite boots.

Play to Win
It doesn't matter if your list is casual, semi-competitive, or competitive--it cannot be played casually and have good results. Regardless of what list you're using and its competitiveness, success with DE requires an aggressive, cutthroat approach to the game. You need need to hit every pressure point, stab every weak point, and tear into the soft underbelly of the enemy army like a half-starved wolf rending apart a hapless squirrel in a crimson, visceral shower of predatory malevolence. Every dirty trick and every low blow must be taken (within the scope of the rules, of course). Any notions of honour, fairness, sporting chances, and the like have to be forgone. The DE army has to be a knife that rams right into the heart of the enemy and keeps on twisting. To play DE to its fullest you have to embrace the army's maligned character. This does not mean you have to be a jerk when you play DE, but you do need to be a sociopath: you are not at the table to give your opponent a glorious battle, you are there to (politely, to ensure future games) slaughter prey.

For club play, they can be really nasty

For tournament play, they can die looking really pretty

All good points Likan... I agree, +1

While I agree that dark eldar are likely harder to play than the craftworlders due to their increased fragility, I disagree that eldar are point and click.

After all a bit of thicker armour only goes so far when you are t3 with a 4+ or 5+ save and cost upwards of 13-15pts a man.

Sure, battle focus, bladestorm etc are all very nice and I won't deny eldar got a huge boost with the new codex, but they are not the point and click army that some people think.

Dark Eldar are just the glass cannon army taken to the extreme. I do look forward to what their 6th edition codex will bring.

oraj wrote:
Well nothing outranges DE on a night fight, that's for sure. But you have to use speed to your advantage if you do get outranged. You can just bring the fight to them in 1 turn.

most tau stuff ignores night fight