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2013/12/29 19:00:27
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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It's widely stated and agreed that Angron is amongst the worst Primarchs and is over costed to boot. So here we go.
WS:9 BS:6 S:7 T:7 W:6 I:7 A:7 LD:10 SV: 3+/4++ 495 points
Special Rules: Hatred (everything), Rage, Primarch, Sire of the World Eaters, Blood on the Sands, God of War, Rampage
Wargear: Gorefather and Gorechild, The Butcher's Nails, Armor of Mars
-Gorefather and Gorechild: S:+2, AP:2, +1 Attack (already in profile), Murderous Strike, Armorbane
-The Butcher's Nails: For every Character, or Infantry Unit Angron kills (removes the last model from) he gains an additional base attack with a max base attack stat of 10 (Gorefather doesn't count)
-Armor of Mars: This grants Angron a 3+ armor save and a 4+ Invulnerable save
-Sire of the World Eaters: Unchanged.
-Blood on the Sands: Angron may issue as many challenges as he has attacks, and can accept challenges with only one attack.
-God of War: Angron gives all World Eaters Infantry within 9 inches the ability to reroll charge distances and the Rampage USR.
Now this is truly an ungodly monster.
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This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2013/12/31 03:48:30
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/29 19:11:13
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Why is he tougher in this form than he is as a daemon prince?
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hello |
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2013/12/29 19:29:46
Subject: Angron Buff
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
Connah's Quay, North Wales
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I have always seen T7 as Mortarion turf, while I understand you are lacking one of his wounds Angron is better in other areas. Your Sire rule needs fleshing out, is it a permanent buff 'cause im feeling t should be a fantasy like you get rage until you lose a combat kind of thing.
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2013/12/29 19:30:12
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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 Daba wrote:Why is he tougher in this form than he is as a daemon prince?
These are a buff to the Forgeworld rules which are tougher than the White Dwarf ones to begin with.
It's widely believed he isn't worth a Lords of War slot due to being amongst the worst Primarchs for cost efficiency.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:I have always seen T7 as Mortarion turf, while I understand you are lacking one of his wounds Angron is better in other areas. Your Sire rule needs fleshing out, is it a permanent buff 'cause im feeling t should be a fantasy like you get rage until you lose a combat kind of thing.
Ferrus Manus, & Vulkan also both have T:7. Angron is as tough as Manus.
Good tips. Thank you.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/12/29 19:44:11
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/29 21:23:32
Subject: Angron Buff
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Calm Celestian
Windsor Ontario Canada
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Give him a 2+ armour save, done.
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2013/12/29 22:01:12
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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My rules or the original FW ones?
If it's the original alot more needs to be done than that.
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/30 03:15:27
Subject: Angron Buff
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Fireknife Shas'el
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 ThePrimordial wrote:
My rules or the original FW ones?
If it's the original alot more needs to be done than that.
Original. And no, not much needs to be done in the first place.
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2013/12/30 05:34:18
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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 McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:
My rules or the original FW ones?
If it's the original alot more needs to be done than that.
Original. And no, not much needs to be done in the first place.
He's weaker than Lorgar durability wise. There's so much wrong with that fluff wise. Yes alot needs to be done.
Fulgrim is better against most characters than him, is cheaper, and has army buffs.
He's horrifically overcosted.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 05:35:39
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/30 14:42:16
Subject: Angron Buff
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Fireknife Shas'el
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ThePrimordial wrote: McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:
My rules or the original FW ones?
If it's the original alot more needs to be done than that.
Original. And no, not much needs to be done in the first place.
He's weaker than Lorgar durability wise. There's so much wrong with that fluff wise. Yes alot needs to be done.
Fulgrim is better against most characters than him, is cheaper, and has army buffs.
He's horrifically overcosted.
He's overcosted, but not horrifically. Angron has 7 S9 attacks on the charge. Coupled with armorbane, he can easily crush a land raider a turn or completely faceroll any other unit he touches.
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2013/12/30 18:20:33
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote: McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:
My rules or the original FW ones?
If it's the original alot more needs to be done than that.
Original. And no, not much needs to be done in the first place.
He's weaker than Lorgar durability wise. There's so much wrong with that fluff wise. Yes alot needs to be done.
Fulgrim is better against most characters than him, is cheaper, and has army buffs.
He's horrifically overcosted.
He's overcosted, but not horrifically. Angron has 7 S9 attacks on the charge. Coupled with armorbane, he can easily crush a land raider a turn or completely faceroll any other unit he touches.
Fulgrim is better in combat against characters (Angron's supposed specialty) due to having an equal number of attacks, and increased durability. Fulgrim has some of those sick Primarch army buffs that basically add a whole 'nother set of legion special rules. And he's 20 points cheaper.
There's a whole mess of problems fluffwise with Lorgar being more durable than Angron, and another mess of problems fluffwise with his standing statwise with the other primarchs.
Just take a look at the rules from my point of view that Angron needs some serious work and tell me what you think.
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/30 19:15:46
Subject: Angron Buff
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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Your changes seem mostly fine to me, but I'd say T6 is enough. Instead, give him a 2+ save. Seriously, every Primarch should have a 2+ save when they are in their plate.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 19:16:03
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2013/12/30 19:19:48
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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ThePrimordial wrote: McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote: McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:
My rules or the original FW ones?
If it's the original alot more needs to be done than that.
Original. And no, not much needs to be done in the first place.
He's weaker than Lorgar durability wise. There's so much wrong with that fluff wise. Yes alot needs to be done.
Fulgrim is better against most characters than him, is cheaper, and has army buffs.
He's horrifically overcosted.
He's overcosted, but not horrifically. Angron has 7 S9 attacks on the charge. Coupled with armorbane, he can easily crush a land raider a turn or completely faceroll any other unit he touches.
Fulgrim is better in combat against characters (Angron's supposed specialty) due to having an equal number of attacks, and increased durability. Fulgrim has some of those sick Primarch army buffs that basically add a whole 'nother set of legion special rules. And he's 20 points cheaper.
There's a whole mess of problems fluffwise with Lorgar being more durable than Angron, and another mess of problems fluffwise with his standing statwise with the other primarchs.
Just take a look at the rules from my point of view that Angron needs some serious work and tell me what you think.
Angron statistically beats every Primarch but Horus in a 1v1 (except Lorgar when he casts powers and sweeps him but they really didn't think that through) I have also play tested it and the same results come back.
Primarchs don't need to be particularly cost effective, that's not their purpose at all.
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2013/12/30 20:32:18
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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BaconUprising wrote: ThePrimordial wrote: McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote: McNinja wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:
My rules or the original FW ones?
If it's the original alot more needs to be done than that.
Original. And no, not much needs to be done in the first place.
He's weaker than Lorgar durability wise. There's so much wrong with that fluff wise. Yes alot needs to be done.
Fulgrim is better against most characters than him, is cheaper, and has army buffs.
He's horrifically overcosted.
He's overcosted, but not horrifically. Angron has 7 S9 attacks on the charge. Coupled with armorbane, he can easily crush a land raider a turn or completely faceroll any other unit he touches.
Fulgrim is better in combat against characters (Angron's supposed specialty) due to having an equal number of attacks, and increased durability. Fulgrim has some of those sick Primarch army buffs that basically add a whole 'nother set of legion special rules. And he's 20 points cheaper.
There's a whole mess of problems fluffwise with Lorgar being more durable than Angron, and another mess of problems fluffwise with his standing statwise with the other primarchs.
Just take a look at the rules from my point of view that Angron needs some serious work and tell me what you think.
Angron statistically beats every Primarch but Horus in a 1v1 (except Lorgar when he casts powers and sweeps him but they really didn't think that through) I have also play tested it and the same results come back.
Primarchs don't need to be particularly cost effective, that's not their purpose at all.
The main purpose of these rules are to fit with the Angron the fluff potrays. Or at least what I have in my head.
He has to compete with other LOW for cost efficiency and power. He cant. Automatically Appended Next Post:  BrotherHaraldus wrote:Your changes seem mostly fine to me, but I'd say T6 is enough. Instead, give him a 2+ save. Seriously, every Primarch should have a 2+ save when they are in their plate.
The 3+ save is supposed represent Angron's recklessness. Plus if he had T:6 grots could wound him.
Thank you for the comment and feedback.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 20:35:32
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/30 21:06:53
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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By that logic (and it has absolute truth) Lorgar is better than Horus. My point is though that he IS the second strongest Primarch. Primarchs aren't meant to be compared against one another on a points scale otherwise Lorgar would always be the one you pick.
But I can see the reasoning in your argument.
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2013/12/30 21:29:23
Subject: Angron Buff
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Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
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ThePrimordial wrote:
The 3+ save is supposed represent Angron's recklessness. Plus if he had T:6 grots could wound him.
Thank you for the comment and feedback.
Every T6 model has that problem. Carnifex, Avatar, Horus. He really should not be tougher than Horus. I insist T6. I'd prefer if all Primarchs were at least T7, but really, in the current situation he is good at T6.
A 2+ SV is a must though. Berzerkers don't get reduced SV. Neither does, say, Death Company, or Flayed Ones. Angron certainly should not.
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2013/12/30 21:39:27
Subject: Angron Buff
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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I like how you're complaining that hes the worst of the Primarchs, but we only have rules for half of them...
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2013/12/30 22:47:47
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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chaos0xomega wrote:I like how you're complaining that hes the worst of the Primarchs, but we only have rules for half of them...
This argument is really pointless. Angron is the only primarch who isn't cost effective.
From a fluff perspective Angron is supposed to be the best primarch in melee by a large margin but he isn't.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BrotherHaraldus wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:
The 3+ save is supposed represent Angron's recklessness. Plus if he had T:6 grots could wound him.
Thank you for the comment and feedback.
Every T6 model has that problem. Carnifex, Avatar, Horus. He really should not be tougher than Horus. I insist T6. I'd prefer if all Primarchs were at least T7, but really, in the current situation he is good at T6.
A 2+ SV is a must though. Berzerkers don't get reduced SV. Neither does, say, Death Company, or Flayed Ones. Angron certainly should not.
Agreed. Changes made.
Starting to question this. The standard primarch toughness is 6. Lorgar has T6. I think Angron is tougher than the standard primarch.
He can't have both T7 and the 2+. I think T7 is just a bit more important to his durability. Opinions?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/30 23:12:04
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/30 23:13:10
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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ThePrimordial wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:I like how you're complaining that hes the worst of the Primarchs, but we only have rules for half of them...
This argument is really pointless. Angron is the only primarch who isn't cost effective.
From a fluff perspective Angron is supposed to be the best primarch in melee by a large margin but he isn't.
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No, Horus is next to always described as the most powerful Primarch in melee with Sanguinus coming in at second and Angron a very close third. That doesn't mean Angron couldn't have beaten Sanguinius, it would have been very very close. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Angron, my second favourite Primarch but not the strongest in melee.
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2013/12/30 23:21:19
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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BaconUprising wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:I like how you're complaining that hes the worst of the Primarchs, but we only have rules for half of them...
This argument is really pointless. Angron is the only primarch who isn't cost effective.
From a fluff perspective Angron is supposed to be the best primarch in melee by a large margin but he isn't.
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No, Horus is next to always described as the most powerful Primarch in melee with Sanguinus coming in at second and Angron a very close third. That doesn't mean Angron couldn't have beaten Sanguinius, it would have been very very close. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Angron, my second favourite Primarch but not the strongest in melee.
Horus is the most balanced primarch. This is what is stated constantly.
Angron would have torn Horus apart. Angron's whole schtick was "I'm the most brutal and best at melee".
Why did you think the War God chose him?
Edit: Just remembered. Horus was the only primarch who could tie or beat Angron in a duel. How old Angron was, and what type of duel it was is left unclear.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 23:27:33
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2013/12/30 23:25:05
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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ThePrimordial wrote:BaconUprising wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:I like how you're complaining that hes the worst of the Primarchs, but we only have rules for half of them...
This argument is really pointless. Angron is the only primarch who isn't cost effective.
From a fluff perspective Angron is supposed to be the best primarch in melee by a large margin but he isn't.
.
No, Horus is next to always described as the most powerful Primarch in melee with Sanguinus coming in at second and Angron a very close third. That doesn't mean Angron couldn't have beaten Sanguinius, it would have been very very close. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Angron, my second favourite Primarch but not the strongest in melee.
Horus is the most balanced primarch. This is what is stated constantly.
Angron would have torn Horus apart. Angron's whole schtick was "I'm the most brutal and best at melee".
Why did you think the War God chose him?
No Horus is specifically stated by many sources (my primary one is Corax) as being the best in close combat. He specifically states that Horus would kill Angron in a 1v1. There are no sources that state Angron was the most powerful... Automatically Appended Next Post: If you want to know why the war god chose him read Betrayer.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 23:26:04
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2013/12/30 23:29:57
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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BaconUprising wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:BaconUprising wrote: ThePrimordial wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:I like how you're complaining that hes the worst of the Primarchs, but we only have rules for half of them...
This argument is really pointless. Angron is the only primarch who isn't cost effective.
From a fluff perspective Angron is supposed to be the best primarch in melee by a large margin but he isn't.
.
No, Horus is next to always described as the most powerful Primarch in melee with Sanguinus coming in at second and Angron a very close third. That doesn't mean Angron couldn't have beaten Sanguinius, it would have been very very close. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Angron, my second favourite Primarch but not the strongest in melee.
Horus is the most balanced primarch. This is what is stated constantly.
Angron would have torn Horus apart. Angron's whole schtick was "I'm the most brutal and best at melee".
Why did you think the War God chose him?
No Horus is specifically stated by many sources (my primary one is Corax) as being the best in close combat. He specifically states that Horus would kill Angron in a 1v1. There are no sources that state Angron was the most powerful...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to know why the war god chose him read Betrayer.
Look at the above edit. Corax also isn't the best source due to being buds with Horus and hating Angron.
Keep in mind this is simply what I view in the mythos. Angron needs some stat boosts regardless of my take on the changes though. I think we can agree on that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 23:32:31
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2013/12/30 23:34:44
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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This was after the heresy. Dom also stated that he believed that Horus was far more of a threat than Angron. That's 2 primarchs in Horus' favour. I would love to see your source that claims Angron is the most powerful
Why do you think Horus has been made more powerful by the FW team? He IS better in a 1v1...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would disagree that he needs stat boosting. He's an absolute tank as he is. I mean he causes far more devastation than Horus. I would say you make him nigh unstoppable if you give him one extra attack to start with, make his saves 2+ 3++. He could take Horus I believe then.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 23:37:31
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2013/12/30 23:55:01
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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BaconUprising wrote:This was after the heresy. Dom also stated that he believed that Horus was far more of a threat than Angron. That's 2 primarchs in Horus' favour. I would love to see your source that claims Angron is the most powerful
Why do you think Horus has been made more powerful by the FW team? He IS better in a 1v1...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would disagree that he needs stat boosting. He's an absolute tank as he is. I mean he causes far more devastation than Horus. I would say you make him nigh unstoppable if you give him one extra attack to start with, make his saves 2+ 3++. He could take Horus I believe then.
As it stands he's the single frailest primarch. Angron the red angel is the single frailest primarch.
I'm not upping his saves. Here's the changes I made origionally
Wounds: 5 to 6. He is no longer the frailest primarch
Strength: 8 to 9. Effective +1 due to changes to Gorefather and Gorechild.
Toughness: 6 to 7. Cementing being tougher than the average primarch.
Attacks: 6 to 7. Upped for destructive purposes.
Removed the Spite Furnace.
Lowered Max possible attacks from 17 to 16 with changes to Butcher's Nails language.
SV: 3+/4++. Unchanged.
Added Rage and Rampage for 2+d3 additional attacks on the charge when outnumbered. How these were not present to begin with is beyond me.
Added God of War granting a fairly fluff friendly army buff.
Cost: 400 to 495. How is this bad? Automatically Appended Next Post: ALEXisAWESOME wrote:I have always seen T7 as Mortarion turf, while I understand you are lacking one of his wounds Angron is better in other areas. Your Sire rule needs fleshing out, is it a permanent buff 'cause im feeling t should be a fantasy like you get rage until you lose a combat kind of thing.
Mortarion is also immune to poison, can reroll his IWND, and is immune to Dangerous Terrain. He also has a better save.
There's a lot more to his durability than that.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/31 03:56:22
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/31 18:02:41
Subject: Re:Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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Does anyone have anything else to say?
I'd appreciate feedback.
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/31 22:33:54
Subject: Angron Buff
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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I know you won't like it but angron is fine, I have used him extensively and he wrecks whatever he hits, sure he could be a little more survivable but that's only if you send him in alone, throw him into a 10 man squad of butchers and he will wreck face while his unit takes the big hits, in a challenge he beats almost all the other primarchs one on one.
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2013/12/31 22:37:42
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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 Formosa wrote:I know you won't like it but angron is fine, I have used him extensively and he wrecks whatever he hits, sure he could be a little more survivable but that's only if you send him in alone, throw him into a 10 man squad of butchers and he will wreck face while his unit takes the big hits, in a challenge he beats almost all the other primarchs one on one.
Meh I agree with you about Angron. Honestly he doesn't need a buff. Butchers though? Red butchers? Come on they suck...
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2013/12/31 22:59:13
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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BaconUprising wrote: Formosa wrote:I know you won't like it but angron is fine, I have used him extensively and he wrecks whatever he hits, sure he could be a little more survivable but that's only if you send him in alone, throw him into a 10 man squad of butchers and he will wreck face while his unit takes the big hits, in a challenge he beats almost all the other primarchs one on one.
Meh I agree with you about Angron. Honestly he doesn't need a buff. Butchers though? Red butchers? Come on they suck...
41 AP:3 attacks on the charge?
No they kick mother***king ass like no one's business. Automatically Appended Next Post: Formosa wrote:I know you won't like it but angron is fine, I have used him extensively and he wrecks whatever he hits, sure he could be a little more survivable but that's only if you send him in alone, throw him into a 10 man squad of butchers and he will wreck face while his unit takes the big hits, in a challenge he beats almost all the other primarchs one on one.
Fluffwise, and to be worth his points he needs a buff.
Primarchs may not normally be cost efficient but Angron has it the worst.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 23:00:54
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/31 23:03:40
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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They are too expensive. Many units have the ability to do that and more for far less. Hit them with anything with 2+ saves and they will get f***d up. They also get hit on a 3+. For their cost they suck...
Edit: Maybe a bit harsh. Ok the don't suck but, I would never ever take them competitively. They are only useful when they are charging over and over again. 2 wounds is good but put them against deathshroud who cost less and they get screwed over.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 23:08:28
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2013/12/31 23:07:59
Subject: Angron Buff
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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BaconUprising wrote:They are too expensive. Many units have the ability to do that and more for far less. Hit them with anything with 2+ saves and they will get f***d up. They also get hit on a 3+. For their cost they suck...
We're aware that they also have 2 wounds, 2+/ 4++, and a 6+ FNP right?
I still tend to use Gal Vorbak over them though. I give your argument weight.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BaconUprising wrote:They are too expensive. Many units have the ability to do that and more for far less. Hit them with anything with 2+ saves and they will get f***d up. They also get hit on a 3+. For their cost they suck...
Edit: Maybe a bit harsh. Ok the don't suck but, I would never ever take them competitively. They are only useful when they are charging over and over again. 2 wounds is good but put them against deathshroud who cost less and they get screwed over.
Deathshroud have far fewer attacks and are 5 points less.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/12/31 23:11:52
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/12/31 23:14:01
Subject: Angron Buff
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Ghastly Grave Guard
Uk
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And yet are far better but then again deathshroud are one of the best units in 30k save a moritat.
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