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Hi Dakka, in reference to my thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576759.page I've decided that I am going to run this list in an upcoming tournament.

I'd like some criticism please. I'm looking for Taudar/Eldau players' input here. What would be your strategy against this list? I know it'll depend heavily on the mission being played, so assume book missions. I don't mean to alienate anyone else's critiques either so feel free to share even if you don't play Taudar/Eldau.

Hive Tyrant
Norn crown, BS/LW, Heavy Venom cannon
-Tyrant Guard

Hive Tyrant (Warlord)
BS/LW, Stranglethorn cannon, regeneration
-Tyrant Guard

Venomthrope

30 Hormagaunts

Tervigon
-Crushing Claws
-Stinger salvo

30 Termagants

2 Dakkafexen

Tyrannofex
-Acid spray
-Shreddershard beetles
-Stinger Salvo
-Regeneration

Tyrannofex
-Acid spray
-Shreddershard beetles
-Stinger Salvo

Aegis Defense line

Total: 1850

The foundation of this list is based on 2 things: 1) Hive tyrants getting at least 1 Catalyst power, and 2) Placing the ADL at table half combining with the Venomthrope to confer a 2+ cover save, while blocking TLOS with the Tyrannofexen and Dakkafexen.

Catalyst will be cast on the Tyrannofex that doesn't have Regeneration, most of the army will advance together aside from the Norn Tyrant who wouldn't necessarily need to advance too much. Termagant unit is reserved.

I'd be happy to play this against anyone on Vassal (I'd just need to know how to do a turn based play, I've done battle reports with it in the past)

Shouldn't one of the Tyrants go with Duel Twin Dev w/ Brain? So he can target Flyers?

Aren't Crushing claws kinda useless now on a Terv? I'd rather that poison artifact.

For the price of a Norn Crown you could almost get a Zoan. I'd rather a Zoan. A crown on a Tyrant makes him more of a target which he doesn't need. Let them shoot the Zoan.

I would just target your synapses. Buffmander + Tide or Broadsides will pick off.

This against ovesa star would be stupid they'd take out the tervigon and tyrant turn 1 no problem which would probably kill a ton of gants. I think it would be over by turn 3 because your synapse would be gone by turn 2.

Does the Ovesa star have the ability to bypass 2+ armor? I seriously don't know, which is why I'm asking

Yes it does. Riptides that run IA. They can shoot H3 S7 AP2 or overcharge for a S8 AP2 large blast, Nova charge for a S9 AP2 large blast

So a typical Tau list like this requires ignores cover via either a buffmander or markerlights. Markerlights can ignore cover on 1 target, and then my opponent would use the ignore cover from the buffmander to remove cover on another target. From what I figure, if they target either Tyrant I doubt they'll be able to down them in 1 turn between 3+, LoS!, 2+ cover save from venomthrope and ADL, and finally FnP.

Sure they could target my Tervigon, who will ideally have the same resiliency, they may or may not be able to remove it, kinda up to the dice on that one.

I will not be putting gants near the Tervigon, unless they're spawned, but at that point they're free gants anyways....

All the while, the Tyrannos will be wiping out pathfinders with their cover ignoring template and the Hormies will be advancing.

Sure, I agree that against the craziest hyper competitive tau list ill struggle, but I don't think this list should be discounted as weak.

I understand you are building against a specific group type.

To change this list around I would consider changing some units around

Take the templates off the Tyrannofexes they won't be able to get in range to use them most likely, even then use Dessicator larvae to destroy everything but vehicles which in regards to tau you couldn't get close.

Consider changing some units around, you need to cover the ranged bunched up units. and are playing a mostly ranged army.

Remove the hormagaunts, one unit of 30 Is your entire melee part, either expand it, or throw in some more distractions for melee.

Pick a role for your Hive Tyrants, giving both melee weapons, and range is fine, but consider a role for each.

Read the Miasma cannon details, give it to your melee hive tyrant.

Make one tyrant ranged, maybe the strangethorn one, and give him some more ranged, remove the bonesword and lashwhip.

For the Carnifexes, Dakka is good, but Consider a Heavy Venom Cannon + twinlinked devourer. you can shoot both, and I at least have better results with throwing blasts at my enemy, as it can bust any tank, and decimate anything under T4, but still gives you the ability to put out some bullets at flyers.

I have only played 1 game against an army like this, but in my opinion this should work a little better

 Dylanj94 wrote:


I understand you are building against a specific group type.

To change this list around I would consider changing some units around

Take the templates off the Tyrannofexes they won't be able to get in range to use them most likely, even then use Dessicator larvae to destroy everything but vehicles which in regards to tau you couldn't get close.

Consider changing some units around, you need to cover the ranged bunched up units. and are playing a mostly ranged army.

Remove the hormagaunts, one unit of 30 Is your entire melee part, either expand it, or throw in some more distractions for melee.

Pick a role for your Hive Tyrants, giving both melee weapons, and range is fine, but consider a role for each.

Read the Miasma cannon details, give it to your melee hive tyrant.

Make one tyrant ranged, maybe the strangethorn one, and give him some more ranged, remove the bonesword and lashwhip.

For the Carnifexes, Dakka is good, but Consider a Heavy Venom Cannon + twinlinked devourer. you can shoot both, and I at least have better results with throwing blasts at my enemy, as it can bust any tank, and decimate anything under T4, but still gives you the ability to put out some bullets at flyers.

I have only played 1 game against an army like this, but in my opinion this should work a little better

Thanks for the input. I don't want you to misunderstand, I'm not building this list to only beat Tau, I just want to have a chance against them, so I guess the title is a bit misleading, what I'm looking for is an awesome TAC list that just won't roll over against Tau.

I don't think a melee tyrant is very effective. First off, with 4 wounds, they will surely not make it to melee on the offensive. The role for the tyrants in this case is to provide support to backfield objective holders (termagants) while also putting shots down board. The LW/BS are to discourage an opponent from assaulting them. The only benefit of making a tyrant all melee focused is a single bonus attack.

Have you ever tried to clear out a unit of 30 hormagaunts who are in melee? Especially when they are fearless. Hormagaunts can catch fast units because they are moving 13" a turn on average, plus the turn they change they have fleet so they can reliably make a charge of 7-9 inches. Yes they aren't upgraded. I don't want them to win combats, I want the. To tie up units for the entire game. Oh, you have two riptides near each other? Now they are useless for the rest of the game..

From what I understand, an O'vesa star can shoot 2 different targets with (at most) 3 AP2 rerolling, cover ignoring shots, for each riptide in the star. OR they focus down a single unit. In which case FnP would be extremely important. Actually thinking about it, FnP would be the deciding factor if I had an MC left after the end if that shooting. It would also dictate which of my MCs my opponent should shoot at.

Sure losing an MC a turn will hurt but that's what FnP is for :-)

Have you had much experience versus Tau?

Not tons. I've seen them lots, played them ~5 times.

A bonesword + lashwhip isn't as good as it used to be, you might want to look it up.

I agree that a blob of hormagaunts are hard to stop, but moving 13" a turn will mean that you have them out of synapse range, because nothing could keep up with them, and unless you kept that hive tyrant dedicated to following the hormagaunts, 4 lucky shots from one of the many railguns, and you lose synapse fast. New edition hormagaunts do not want to leave synapse because of the new instinctive behavior rule, so you might want to rethink a dedicated melee tyrant, with miasma cannon and if you insist on it, keep the bonesword and whip. because you will want some creatures to get close to threaten the enemy.

The other downside to this is that you only have 3 synapse creatures, and if you didn't know, that is maybe 2 turns to live, if they miss a lot.

Now here is a little scenario for you;

Camping behind defense line, models all have cover saves
Crisis suit fires an airbursting fragmentation projector
Large blast, no cover save, AP5 you lose a venomthrope and a bunch of gants, gaunts, or whichever was closest.

Now nobody has a 2+ cover, and its up to 4+.

Now the rest of the heavy weaponry starts blasting, aiming for the biggest threats there, 1. tervigon 2. norn tyrant 3. other tyrant.

Lets say you get lucky, tervigon has 6 wounds, no armor save from high ap,but he manages a 4+ save.

You would for sure lose any tyrant guards guarding the hive tyrants, so assuming you get really good rolls, you have lower cover, and have to cower behind cover protecting your synapse.

next turn, your enemy opens even more fire on you after moving more troops into range, you lose all synapse from the 3 beasts.

Scoop right there because you have no hope left, you cannot out range a range army.

In the worst case scenario, they will markerlight the venomthropes, blast them to pieces one turn, then finish off the synapse the next.

My other worry, is that the tau have a ton, a metric ton of systems that can disrupt your plans, they can give themselves ignore cover, reduce charge ranges, and can use supporting fire, or even overwatch at BS2, you charging that riptide sounds good on paper, but then all the close units get to fire everything they have at ap 5 and your gaunts fall apart, better yet, they could have deepstriked some units behind you, and negated your cover save in the first place.

anything you think can go wrong, will always go wrong with tau.

Put the Crown and Reg on Tervigon

I think you're seriously underestimating the firepower that a typical (not even "competitive") Tau[dar] list can pack at 1850pts.

From your list, there's nothing that would seriously worry me from an Eldar perspective, and even less from a Tau.

The problem with your list is that it is incredibly static - you have no fast moving threats which would cause a Tau[dar] player to make a difficult decision. You're basically trying to out-resilience the Tau firepower which I don't think Tyranids are capable of doing.

Iranna.

Dylanj94 wrote:A bonesword + lashwhip isn't as good as it used to be, you might want to look it up.

I agree that a blob of hormagaunts are hard to stop, but moving 13" a turn will mean that you have them out of synapse range, because nothing could keep up with them, and unless you kept that hive tyrant dedicated to following the hormagaunts, 4 lucky shots from one of the many railguns, and you lose synapse fast. New edition hormagaunts do not want to leave synapse because of the new instinctive behavior rule, so you might want to rethink a dedicated melee tyrant, with miasma cannon and if you insist on it, keep the bonesword and whip. because you will want some creatures to get close to threaten the enemy.

The other downside to this is that you only have 3 synapse creatures, and if you didn't know, that is maybe 2 turns to live, if they miss a lot.

Now here is a little scenario for you;

Camping behind defense line, models all have cover saves
Crisis suit fires an airbursting fragmentation projector
Large blast, no cover save, AP5 you lose a venomthrope and a bunch of gants, gaunts, or whichever was closest.

Now nobody has a 2+ cover, and its up to 4+.

Now the rest of the heavy weaponry starts blasting, aiming for the biggest threats there, 1. tervigon 2. norn tyrant 3. other tyrant.

Lets say you get lucky, tervigon has 6 wounds, no armor save from high ap,but he manages a 4+ save.

You would for sure lose any tyrant guards guarding the hive tyrants, so assuming you get really good rolls, you have lower cover, and have to cower behind cover protecting your synapse.

next turn, your enemy opens even more fire on you after moving more troops into range, you lose all synapse from the 3 beasts.

Scoop right there because you have no hope left, you cannot out range a range army.

In the worst case scenario, they will markerlight the venomthropes, blast them to pieces one turn, then finish off the synapse the next.

My other worry, is that the tau have a ton, a metric ton of systems that can disrupt your plans, they can give themselves ignore cover, reduce charge ranges, and can use supporting fire, or even overwatch at BS2, you charging that riptide sounds good on paper, but then all the close units get to fire everything they have at ap 5 and your gaunts fall apart, better yet, they could have deepstriked some units behind you, and negated your cover save in the first place.

anything you think can go wrong, will always go wrong with tau.

It sounds like you are very familiar with Tau and their capabilities. I am not as familiar. I would like to point out, however, that I (as well as you, it seems) are assuming little to no other terrain on the board. Yes, with no LOS blocking terrain, things look meek for the Tyranids, but how could they look any better when placing the worst possible codex since the rules were written against [one of]the absolute books written to date?

FeindusMaximus wrote:Put the Crown and Reg on Tervigon

Any suggestions as to why? With the list I'm running, I'm trying to pack as many MCs in as I can while staying resilient to firepower. Are you potentially suggesting to turn each Tyrant + guard into a Flyrant? I haven't thought of that possibility as of yet and as I am spending 295 and 250 points respectively on the Tyrants so I could definitely make that happen.

So with what I think you're suggesting, the list would look like this with 15 points left over:

Flying Hive Tyrant
-Dual Brainleech devourers

Flying Hive Tyrant (Warlord)
-Dual Brainleech devourers

Venomthrope

30 Hormagaunts

Tervigon
-Crushing Claws
-Stinger salvo
-Norn crown
-Regeneration

30 Termagants

2 Dakkafexen

Tyrannofex
-Acid spray
-Shreddershard beetles
-Stinger Salvo
-Regeneration

Tyrannofex
-Acid spray
-Shreddershard beetles
-Stinger Salvo

Aegis Defense line

Total: 1835

Iranna wrote:I think you're seriously underestimating the firepower that a typical (not even "competitive") Tau[dar] list can pack at 1850pts.

From your list, there's nothing that would seriously worry me from an Eldar perspective, and even less from a Tau.

The problem with your list is that it is incredibly static - you have no fast moving threats which would cause a Tau[dar] player to make a difficult decision. You're basically trying to out-resilience the Tau firepower which I don't think Tyranids are capable of doing.

Iranna.

I think you're right on the first part of your comment. I bet I am underestimating the firepower Tau can bring to bear. I am hoping to position myself advantageously to mitigate some of that firepower, and while hopeful, I have been able to do this in the past pretty effectively.

I do agree with your last part though. I think, maybe, I'm attempting to build a list that is more resilient than Tau can put out in damage and I'm realizing that probably can't be done. I've amended my list to hopefully add more offensive capability to hopefully remove threats from opponents before they have too much time to do the same to me.

Eldar, however, I'm much less worried about in terms of WS spam. A list like my original compilation would (in my opinion) deflect almost all incoming fire since Eldar rely much more on TLOS, and weapons that don't have an AP value low enough for me to worry about.

Please feel free to review my amended list above and critique it. I am open to removing the Tervigon in place of possibly warriors, genestealers, or some other creative idea. If I were to drop the Tervigon and associated gants I would gain ~400 points to work with.

I did some small thinking about this list of yours and how I would improve on it, so I looked up a few things about Tau and Eldar.
The Main thing about Tau at least, is that their shooting everything, but fold in melee. I have asked around with samples, and something you would consider would be either:

1. Outflank a bunch of Genestealers with a Tyrant.

2. Deep strike Trygon Primes, then send in Genestealer broods with a Broodlord, watch them split the fire, and reduce their chances to kill either.

I have done the second one, and although it semi-relies on good dice rolls for reserves, it gives them a few different key targets to shoot for, and most people underestimate the tyranids now because of the ever popular tervigon shooting army lists. Their melee is still as strong as ever.

I Love doing it, simply because its super effective against armies that rely on picking off targets. If your list was bigger, I would throw in some zoanthropes and hold one is reserve to really mess with the enemy, the more deadly tank killing targets there are, the more their gonna spread out their shooting, and if they don't you may lose a Synapse creature, but the others are still there and your other squads are protected.

Don't know if I explained that good....any questions and I can try to fix it.

I think the biggest problem this list has is the humble SMS. S5 AP5, I believe a 30" range, and has built-in Ignores Cover and Homing, which means it can be fired at the Venomthrope when you don't even have LOS and the Venomthrope gets no cover save.

Most Tau vehicles will have a twin-linked SMS, and most Broadsides come with it stock as well. You might even see some Riptides with it. Once your venomthrope is gone, Fire Warriors will make short work of your hormagaunt horde, and ST5 30" weapons will put a hurting on your ground-based MCs too. Yes, you'll get saves, but they'll hit you -- A LOT -- and eventually you'll fail them.

Dylanj94 wrote:I did some small thinking about this list of yours and how I would improve on it, so I looked up a few things about Tau and Eldar.
The Main thing about Tau at least, is that their shooting everything, but fold in melee. I have asked around with samples, and something you would consider would be either:

1. Outflank a bunch of Genestealers with a Tyrant.

2. Deep strike Trygon Primes, then send in Genestealer broods with a Broodlord, watch them split the fire, and reduce their chances to kill either.

I have done the second one, and although it semi-relies on good dice rolls for reserves, it gives them a few different key targets to shoot for, and most people underestimate the tyranids now because of the ever popular tervigon shooting army lists. Their melee is still as strong as ever.

I Love doing it, simply because its super effective against armies that rely on picking off targets. If your list was bigger, I would throw in some zoanthropes and hold one is reserve to really mess with the enemy, the more deadly tank killing targets there are, the more their gonna spread out their shooting, and if they don't you may lose a Synapse creature, but the others are still there and your other squads are protected.

Don't know if I explained that good....any questions and I can try to fix it.

Good suggestions, but a few comments. Genestealers don't need the Tyrant to outflank, they come with that ability stock.

The other downfall regarding genestealers is that I get away from my original goal which was to overload the board with MCs. I did, however, mention that the Tervigon isn't a requirement as part of my list. So adding 2 MSU of stealers with a Broodlord would definitely force Tau to make decisions on whether or not to ignore them and go for my synapse or sacrifice a turn of shooting to stay it of melee.

milo wrote:I think the biggest problem this list has is the humble SMS. S5 AP5, I believe a 30" range, and has built-in Ignores Cover and Homing, which means it can be fired at the Venomthrope when you don't even have LOS and the Venomthrope gets no cover save.

Most Tau vehicles will have a twin-linked SMS, and most Broadsides come with it stock as well. You might even see some Riptides with it. Once your venomthrope is gone, Fire Warriors will make short work of your hormagaunt horde, and ST5 30" weapons will put a hurting on your ground-based MCs too. Yes, you'll get saves, but they'll hit you -- A LOT -- and eventually you'll fail them.

So maybe the answer is to embark a venomthrope in a bastion? I'm tinkering with that idea too.

I play both the ovesa star and tyranids.Any tau mix list have a truckload of firepower, probably more than you wreliably xpect expecially a competiive list piloted by an experienced player. Not only can they field ap2 wielding shooty mcs, high rate of fire from broadsides and ignore cover.they have this unit known as the sniper drone team, my meta sees 1/3 of tau player run a unit of those to quickly despatch one mc per turn.

The ovesa star is a natural counter to tyranids. Skyrays skyfiring 6 S8 AP3 missiles with possible cover ignoring marker lights can almost take out a tyranid flier or mc in a single turn each. The ovesa star with ignore cover and monster hunter can take out another mc confidently as well.

2 remaining aiming another mc would deal it alot of dmg or kill another mc.

Im not even talking about the sheer amount of SMS even. My list packs six SMS guns. 24 30" TL S5 AP5 homing and cover ignoring. I can pluck venoms and pour wounds easily.


So against the ovesa star, you can reliably see two mcs die a turn or if bad rolls up to four. I played both sides so the hard truth is painful.

That being said I still am 8-2 with the new nids. So fsr what I find works against taudar are mass fmcs spam, mawlocs that hit, biovores or an incredibly fast horde army. Those are still very effective against most taudar lists, just not the ovesa star.

Hi, I've built a list for the exact same role a TAC army that has a fighting chance against Tau. (just shave some points off to get it into your points value)

1990pts
HQ - 520
Hive Tyrant + 2x twinlinked devourers + Wings + Regeneration
Hive Tyrant + 2x twinlinked devourers + Wings + Regeneration

Troops - 350
- 20 x Hormagunts
- 20 x Hormagunts
- 20 x Hormagunts
- 10 x Hormagunts

Elites - 195
- 2 x Zoanthropes
- 1 x Zoanthropes
- 1 x Venomthrope

Fast Attack - 465
- 1 x Crone
- 1 x Crone
- 1 x Harpy + Twin linked Heavy Venom Cannon + Clusterspines

Heavy Support - 460
- 3 x Biovore
- 1 x Exocrine
- 1 x Exocrine

The basic strategy is this:
Opening salvos will be heavy support, use Biovores to soften Fire Teams / infantry.
Use both exocrines to focus fire on the same Riptide as soon as possible
Keep 1x Venom and 1x Zoan up the back with the heavy support for shorud and synapse

Move the 5 FMCs into combat to harras and hammer high threats. The 5 FMCs will always move and stay together.

Run the 70 Horms up the board moving from cover to cover with the 2x Zoans for synapse
If the enemy sucessfully kills the 2x Zoans providing synapse for the Horms, peel off a Flyrant and scoop them up andkeep them charging in.

Reasoning for this build:
Both Heavy Support and Fast Atack units will be able to attack and apply pressure from early on (even turn 1).
This provides cover and distraction to overwhelm them with horms.
The Tau will have to pick their targets amongst a lot of high threats:
Do I fire on :
- The 6 artillery units wreaking havok?
- The 5 FMCs ripping appart my favorite units?
- The 70 Horms rushing in to hug me?

doomminion wrote:


Reasoning for this build:
Both Heavy Support and Fast Atack units will be able to attack and apply pressure from early on (even turn 1).
This provides cover and distraction to overwhelm them with horms.
The Tau will have to pick their targets amongst a lot of high threats:
Do I fire on :
- The 6 artillery units wreaking havok?
- The 5 FMCs ripping appart my favorite units?
- The 70 Horms rushing in to hug me?

Really hate to burst that little bubble...but any competent Tau build will do the following.

Snipe Tyrant 1 & 2 lots of seeker missiles, smart missile systems and railguns.....most of which are T/L and aiming at one tyrant at a time until it dies.

After both tyrants are dead, kill the zoanthropes.

Camp the cover, watch the tyranids crumble.

I personally hate FMC, so I am probably biased, since I never had anything good come out of them...Might run a single flyrant with the new 6th edition just to see how well it goes.

doomminion wrote:Hi, I've built a list for the exact same role a TAC army that has a fighting chance against Tau. (just shave some points off to get it into your points value)

1990pts
HQ - 520
Hive Tyrant + 2x twinlinked devourers + Wings + Regeneration
Hive Tyrant + 2x twinlinked devourers + Wings + Regeneration

Troops - 350
- 20 x Hormagunts
- 20 x Hormagunts
- 20 x Hormagunts
- 10 x Hormagunts

Elites - 195
- 2 x Zoanthropes
- 1 x Zoanthropes
- 1 x Venomthrope

Fast Attack - 465
- 1 x Crone
- 1 x Crone
- 1 x Harpy + Twin linked Heavy Venom Cannon + Clusterspines

Heavy Support - 460
- 3 x Biovore
- 1 x Exocrine
- 1 x Exocrine

The basic strategy is this:
Opening salvos will be heavy support, use Biovores to soften Fire Teams / infantry.
Use both exocrines to focus fire on the same Riptide as soon as possible
Keep 1x Venom and 1x Zoan up the back with the heavy support for shorud and synapse

Move the 5 FMCs into combat to harras and hammer high threats. The 5 FMCs will always move and stay together.

Run the 70 Horms up the board moving from cover to cover with the 2x Zoans for synapse
If the enemy sucessfully kills the 2x Zoans providing synapse for the Horms, peel off a Flyrant and scoop them up andkeep them charging in.

Reasoning for this build:
Both Heavy Support and Fast Atack units will be able to attack and apply pressure from early on (even turn 1).
This provides cover and distraction to overwhelm them with horms.
The Tau will have to pick their targets amongst a lot of high threats:
Do I fire on :
- The 6 artillery units wreaking havok?
- The 5 FMCs ripping appart my favorite units?
- The 70 Horms rushing in to hug me?

I will say that I really have wanted to incorporate Biovores into my list because of their utility. They can outrage anything that will engage them that don't need LOS, and the things that can need LOS, just stay out of LOS.

The other important thing you have is a horde. Tau can't simply ignore them because they'll tarpit their important units. Gaunts will also probably win in assault eventually so there's that to think about.

Synapse is a huge issue though and without forcing Tau to use their markerlights on a ton of units, they can pick a select few to take out and tear you apart piecemeal.

Dylanj94 wrote:

doomminion wrote:


Reasoning for this build:
Both Heavy Support and Fast Atack units will be able to attack and apply pressure from early on (even turn 1).
This provides cover and distraction to overwhelm them with horms.
The Tau will have to pick their targets amongst a lot of high threats:
Do I fire on :
- The 6 artillery units wreaking havok?
- The 5 FMCs ripping appart my favorite units?
- The 70 Horms rushing in to hug me?

Really hate to burst that little bubble...but any competent Tau build will do the following.

Snipe Tyrant 1 & 2 lots of seeker missiles, smart missile systems and railguns.....most of which are T/L and aiming at one tyrant at a time until it dies.

After both tyrants are dead, kill the zoanthropes.

Camp the cover, watch the tyranids crumble.

I personally hate FMC, so I am probably biased, since I never had anything good come out of them...Might run a single flyrant with the new 6th edition just to see how well it goes.

I think you are still counting on a positionally stupid Tyranid player. Tyranid players know how to use cover better than the rest of the fools out there, not to mention LOS blocking terrain. There should be at least 1 or 2 pieces of terrain like that.

I like the fexes having the acid spray I agree with electroshock beetles as this gives you something for vehicles and if troops it is still S5 AP5. I think the Acid spray being torrent will be effective early on. Yeah you can ignore cover, but except for a lucky Wraithknight 6 roll (which you will still get cover for), and Riptide guns I do not see a lot else taking them out 1 turn unless concentrate everything on it, but then everything else has survived and gone further and your synapse is alive. I do not think regen is worth it on the air flyrants as they will usually be killed once targeted in one turn making regen worthless. I do think it would be worth it if you had the points on the tyranos and tervigans as they have 6 wounds. On the ground I think guards are amazing as they auto pass look out sirs so better chance of delivering a buffed out tyrant. I think having hive commander may be worth it to outflank a unit and dakka the tau line from up close. It will be a hard fight but not an impossible one... I also think Nids have a good chance against Screamer stars as their shadows of the warp will help prevent the 2up reroll shennanigans...

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:I like the fexes having the acid spray I agree with electroshock beetles as this gives you something for vehicles and if troops it is still S5 AP5. I think the Acid spray being torrent will be effective early on. Yeah you can ignore cover, but except for a lucky Wraithknight 6 roll (which you will still get cover for), and Riptide guns I do not see a lot else taking them out 1 turn unless concentrate everything on it, but then everything else has survived and gone further and your synapse is alive. I do not think regen is worth it on the air flyrants as they will usually be killed once targeted in one turn making regen worthless. I do think it would be worth it if you had the points on the tyranos and tervigans as they have 6 wounds. On the ground I think guards are amazing as they auto pass look out sirs so better chance of delivering a buffed out tyrant. I think having hive commander may be worth it to outflank a unit and dakka the tau line from up close. It will be a hard fight but not an impossible one... I also think Nids have a good chance against Screamer stars as their shadows of the warp will help prevent the 2up reroll shennanigans...

I think the reason that I'm not typically as worried about Eldar variants is because of SitW. I know it's toned down a bit from before, but in the past against any type of army that has psychic units, they become my main target for SitW. As I typically use Flyrants, that's not too hard to achieve... So as this list has evolved, I've realized the necessity of SitW and how important the additional mobility Flyrants possess.

It sounds like you are very familiar with Tau and their capabilities. I am not as familiar. I would like to point out, however, that I (as well as you, it seems) are assuming little to no other terrain on the board. Yes, with no LOS blocking terrain, things look meek for the Tyranids, but how could they look any better when placing the worst possible codex since the rules were written against [one of]the absolute books written to date?

He really isn't. No Tau player takes rail guns. The ABFP is S4 so can't 1 shot your venomthrope it is also 18" range and not barrage so no way is it hitting your Venomthrope until you're on top of him.

Look at the level of advice he gave you for Nids. Genestealers for something other than just spamming the Horror are terrible whilst the Trygon Prime is the worst HS option. He destinations on Tau are if anything even less enlightening. Don't listen to the advice it will make your list worse.

Looking at the latest version of the list drop regent and get toxinon all the FMC you'll need it for fighting other MCs.

Possibly drop the unit of 10 gaunts for another Venomthrope or Zoanthrope. This looks a completely different type of list to the first and ai believe Mawlocs suit this list better than the Exocrine. Whilst Genestealers could make a good troops choice. You could get 3 units of stealers and an ADL to hide them behind, if you made the Mawloc swap. This way they put 3 pinning checks on your opponent turn 1 at -2 LD. And they're in your opponents face at the same time as the FMCs.

@roxor08:

I hope you'll be at the LVO? We may play each other day 2, as I'm bringing Orks. You know Reese said you may use either the old or new tyranid codex? You just have to inform the TOs at registration.

Regarding your list. My experience with new Nids is only one game and my "fun ork list" dismantled them handily. The BatReps I've seen (quite a few from frontlinegaming LVO host) indicate to me that synapse and fast attackers are key for the Nids. I think vs Tau the Malwocs show great promise for killing scoring units and the buffing HQs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Two fights actually:
I should mention that I got TROUNCED by a superior tactician in an LVO practice tourney. 2crones 2flyrants

Unfortunately, I will not be attending the LVO. I'm more of a local player and lets just say: Beyond Adepticon, there isn't much available to me here...

Mobility for Nids in my opinion is critical to winning a game. So once again I think filling the Fast Attack slot is non-optional to be competitive in the new codex. The amount of mobility gained by FMCs is enormous, and a lot of the battle reports coming out are stating that the Crones were the MVP of the match. I also think at an absolute minimum of one Crone is a must for Anti-Air, previously an area Nids really struggled with and the idea for his army is to be TAC not just to stomp Tau and other factions will take flyers.

My reasoning for 5 FMCs is they will dominate the skies, and once the skies are controlled by Nids they can very quickly change to harassing ground forces and making surgical strikes against high threat targets. Couple that with high mobility and you can strike your opponent where they are the weakest.

Also by virtue of the fact they’re flying it means ground based Template, blast and large blast weapons cannot fire at them. The Tau do have Skyfire which means it won’t affect them too much but other armies without Skyfire will have to make snapshots to target them. Once again very useful in a TAC list. So especially for Tau it comes down to positioning and forethought so you your FMCs don’t end up in range of lots of fire power. You can also use this to your advantage and use your FMCs to lure safe units closer to your artillery to get ripped apart.

Does your opponent foolishly have only one squad of Crisis suits guarding an objective in his back field thinking it’s safe? Swing that Flying Circus of death around show him he’s wrong.

The thing you don’t want to do is strike in the heart of a big mass of ranged units while unsupported. What you do want to do is pick off high threat targets on the edge of their formations or squads foolishly deployed too far from the main mass.

That is why my strategy is what I’ve dubbed H.S.S. or Hammer, Scalpel, Shield.

The Artillery (Bio’s and Exo’s) are the Hammer, they fire from range into the opponents ranks decimating units and destroying formations. Bios focussing on Infantry and Exos on armour (Riptides/ Land Raiders etc.).

The FMCs (Crones, Harpys and Flyrants) are the Scalpel, striking very hard and cutting down specific squads or high threat targets.

The broods of Horms are the Shield, they absorb fire or really start to freak the opponent out if they completely ignored them. Ignoring 70 Horms and then have them in charge distance of your army is going to make them freak out a bit. Use them to tear apart infantry and tarpit high value targets to buy you more time to Hammer and Scalpel to victory.


I have mixed feelings about the Mawloc. They can DS in around turn 2 but the most you’re going to get out of them is 2 wounds per Riptide. And yes I would want them specifically hunting riptides or high armour high threat targets. If they successfully come up you get 1 wound at most and then have to hope that nothing is within 1” of your mawloc or you can’t hit and run. IMO the strength of the Mawloc is in its TFTD opening attack not protracted melee combat.

The Exocrine on the other hand can do a S7 AP2 large blast attack or perform a S7 AP2 Assault 6 attack. Putting two Exocrines on a Riptide for 12 shots at S7 AP2 the riptide is going to hurt if not explode that turn. Meaning GW designed the Exocrine to be a counter to the Riptide / Land Raiders etc.

 FlingitNow wrote:

It sounds like you are very familiar with Tau and their capabilities. I am not as familiar. I would like to point out, however, that I (as well as you, it seems) are assuming little to no other terrain on the board. Yes, with no LOS blocking terrain, things look meek for the Tyranids, but how could they look any better when placing the worst possible codex since the rules were written against [one of]the absolute books written to date?

He really isn't. No Tau player takes rail guns. The ABFP is S4 so can't 1 shot your venomthrope it is also 18" range and not barrage so no way is it hitting your Venomthrope until you're on top of him.

Look at the level of advice he gave you for Nids. Genestealers for something other than just spamming the Horror are terrible whilst the Trygon Prime is the worst HS option. He destinations on Tau are if anything even less enlightening. Don't listen to the advice it will make your list worse.

Looking at the latest version of the list drop regent and get toxinon all the FMC you'll need it for fighting other MCs.

Possibly drop the unit of 10 gaunts for another Venomthrope or Zoanthrope. This looks a completely different type of list to the first and ai believe Mawlocs suit this list better than the Exocrine. Whilst Genestealers could make a good troops choice. You could get 3 units of stealers and an ADL to hide them behind, if you made the Mawloc swap. This way they put 3 pinning checks on your opponent turn 1 at -2 LD. And they're in your opponents face at the same time as the FMCs.

First of all...Airburster is AP:5, venomthrope is 5+, so no armor. It ignores cover, so no cover save. and finally, yes it is barrage. it hits, it wounds, venom takes a wound. One more shot, it dies for good. Or they just shoot a few ignore cover missiles at it. I did forget they had 2 wounds however, since I personally don't like bringing fragile fire magnets.

Second of all, Railguns are still used by many tau armies, their called Hammerheads and they are still used. Broadsides less, but still used by many different tau players.

Third of all, Trygon primes are amazing, you probably do not play them yourself, but they are heavy hitting melee and deal quite a bit of damage for what they do. Mawlocs on the otherhand, got a heavy hit. when they arrive and follow their terror the deep rules, if it fails, the mawloc mishaps, so if you scatter onto a couple tanks, or a riptide, you may as well kiss that mawloc goodbye. Mawlocs are decent units I will not deny that, but for how bad things can get, I would rather have a more reliable MC.

Spamming genestealers for horror...seriously? 130points for a barebones minimum size unit just to spam horror?
Genestealers are heavy hitting melee units with a ridiculous WS and rending, claiming that their useless but for a single power makes me think you are not a tyranid player..

I'm aware of the Ap5 of the ABFP but with an 18" range its not killing that Venomthrope until its too late. There are better and easier ways to kill Venomthropes with Tau. SMS for example has 30" range 4 twin linked shots S5 AP5 and ignores line of sight. That is a weapon that kills venomthropes. If you'd talked about SMS it would have been useful helpful advice that would have illustrated an understanding of Tau and their capabilities.

Rail guns are not used by any competitive Tau players. No one uses them on Broadsides and Sky rays are the other competitive HS slot. If you take a Hammerhead in the competitive scene it is for the Ion Cannon. He's looking for a Nids army to take to tournaments if you don't go to tournament and don't play against tournament armies its probably best to not give advice on tournament lists or you'll say stuff like Tau have lots of Rail guns when in fact on the Tournament scene they have none.

Genestealers are not a combat unit because they simply don't work as one. WS and rending are irrelevant if you never live longenough to strike. They are as expensive as marines with a 5+ armour this means they get bombed by flamers and die to overwatch. Outflanking is often just a good way to die in your movement phase as you get intercepted off the board. Add in the lack of grenades meaning if by some miracle any actually survive to make combat you get punched in the face and die before you strike. They are not a main line combat unit because against tournament players there is no way to get a useful number of them into combat. The Horror is however a very useful tactical tool and if you can pin your opponents best and second best shooting units in turn 1 that will make a huge impact to how well the early game goes for you. Stealers have been useless as a combat unit since the 6th Ed rulebook came out this codex failed to change that but instead gave them a different purpose as a disruption unit.

Trygons got worse in this codex. They dropped just 10 points and lost rerolls to hit. Whilst all the other HS options got serious buffs by either large points reductions (Cfex, Tfex) or rules buffs coupled with points reductions (biovore, Mawloc). This has made the Trygon and Prime the weakest thing in HS (from being the strongest in the previous book).

You seem to think the fact that a Mawloc can misshap is a nerf. Again this illustrates a level of understanding of the game that isn't useful to someone trying to play at Tournaments. The fact that the Mawloc can misshap is a buff and a good one to. Check out the misshap table only on a roll of a 1 is it a bad result for the Mawloc. 2-3 is basically the same as not misshapping as your opponent can either place the Mawloc in front of his lines to shoot it which is where it would have been anyway or he can put it out of the way where it can just burrow again anyway. A 4+ means you go back into reserve and get to do your attack again a turn earlier with no chance for your opponent to shoot your Mawloc.

So my advice is if someone is telling you they want help with their tournament army is to only give advice if you know and understand the tournament scene.