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Greetings dakka,

I'm putting together a list that I'd like to pack as many MCs in it as I can. With that being said, I also want those MCs to be resilient. I'd like to hold off on revealing the rest of my list but if you feel you need to know it I'll post it at a later time. As many of us can attest, a T6 3+ MC isn't too difficult to handle, so I considered this current plan:

Heavy1
Carnifex brood
-Carnifex with dual TL-Devs + Adrenal glands
-Carnifex with dual TL-Devs + Adrenal glands

Tyrannofex
-Adrenal Glands

Tyrannofex
-Adrenal Glands

Total: 710

However, as this would indicate I'm running a much more of a foot slogger army, I've added an ADL to grant me a 4+ cover save and a venomethrope hidden out of LOS behind all these baddies to improve it to a 2+. Question 1: Would it be worth adding Regen to both Tyrannofexen to increase their resiliency? Being a foot slogger army, it'll be slow and I can't threaten enemy psykers with SitW. So another iteration of the HS force org that I want to do is:

Heavy2
Carnifex brood
-Carnifex with dual TL-Devs + Adrenal glands
-Carnifex with dual TL-Devs + Adrenal glands

Tyrannofex
-Adrenal Glands

Trygon Prime

Total: 750

My idea with this HS slot is to have the same T6 saturation, but be able to provide forward synapse + SitW to disrupt enemy psykers and force my opponent to deal with threats other than the oncoming trample. I can all but guarantee Trygon arriving via deep strike T2 due to a Comms relay.
Question 2: What are the disadvantages adding the Prime? Is it more advantageous to add the Trygon or keep the Tyrannofex?

Last question: I realize that there are plenty of hyper competitive lists (Tau specifically) that comes to mind that has ignore cover. But how many armies have Ignore cover AND massed AP2/3?

I actually ran option two a little while ago, got focussed down with weapons specific to each creature.

Tyrannos (and exocrines...and trygons I guess) run best in pairs

I also don't like the fex's adrenal glands, fexes win by being cheap

A few points:

1) I'm not sure you need AG on the shooty Carnifexes when the T-Fexes have them too. Melee is basically plan B for these guys, and they're rarely going to run unless you get Onslaught.

2) If you're running Acid Spray T-fexes, you may as well throw on a Thorax Swarm for the sake of 10pts. It'll generally double the number of wounds you're putting out.
I tend to go with the Electroshock one because if you can catch a vehicle with it that's basically a free hull point gone.

3) The Prime really depends on the rest of your list, how much other Syanpse is in it, and how mobile/durable that is.
If you're going to deep strike the Prime, it might be worth a miasma cannon which can fire alongside it's other weapon on arrival.

ductvader wrote:I actually ran option two a little while ago, got focussed down with weapons specific to each creature.

Tyrannos (and exocrines...and trygons I guess) run best in pairs

I also don't like the fex's adrenal glands, fexes win by being cheap

xttz wrote:A few points:

1) I'm not sure you need AG on the shooty Carnifexes when the T-Fexes have them too. Melee is basically plan B for these guys, and they're rarely going to run unless you get Onslaught.

2) If you're running Acid Spray T-fexes, you may as well throw on a Thorax Swarm for the sake of 10pts. It'll generally double the number of wounds you're putting out.
I tend to go with the Electroshock one because if you can catch a vehicle with it that's basically a free hull point gone.

3) The Prime really depends on the rest of your list, how much other Syanpse is in it, and how mobile/durable that is.
If you're going to deep strike the Prime, it might be worth a miasma cannon which can fire alongside it's other weapon on arrival.

Regarding the AG on the Fexen: I have played several games with them recently, and they seem to be unable to do any shooting T1 because of their range. This bothers be because they are a waste of space if they aren't shooting. The AG are to provide me additional distance so I dominate the center of the board (because T1 they aren't shooting, I might as well be reliably be running. (I guess now that I'm talking it through, I'm paying 30 points for a single extra maybe inch or two on Turn 1). Alright, drop the AG on the fexen....

Regarding Thorax swarm: My response above allots me more points to add them. Consider it done.

Regarding synapse: I have 2 Tyrants with guards (one will have norn crown) but that's all the synapse I have otherwise. My hope is, with good chances at catalyst and being behind all other large MCs I can either BLOS or at lease get a 2+ cover save.

roxor08 wrote:
Regarding synapse: I have 2 Tyrants with guards (one will have norn crown) but that's all the synapse I have otherwise. My hope is, with good chances at catalyst and being behind all other large MCs I can either BLOS or at lease get a 2+ cover save.

You need Warriors a Tervigon or Zoeys...

2 Synapse Creatures are simply not enough.

2-3 Zoeys or 3 Warriors (Barbed Strangler) is a great buy...

A Tervigon with the Norn Crown is also fantastic for supporting the heavies.

roxor08 wrote:

Regarding synapse: I have 2 Tyrants with guards (one will have norn crown)

Never take the Norn Crown. For just 10 points more you can add a Zoanthrope which gives you more synapse and an extra psychic roll. Plus any of your psykers can use Dominion if they roll a power that isn't useful to you, giving the same effect for free.

ductvader wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
Regarding synapse: I have 2 Tyrants with guards (one will have norn crown) but that's all the synapse I have otherwise. My hope is, with good chances at catalyst and being behind all other large MCs I can either BLOS or at lease get a 2+ cover save.

You need Warriors a Tervigon or Zoeys...

2 Synapse Creatures are simply not enough.

2-3 Zoeys or 3 Warriors (Barbed Strangler) is a great buy...

A Tervigon with the Norn Crown is also fantastic for supporting the heavies.

xttz wrote:

roxor08 wrote:

Regarding synapse: I have 2 Tyrants with guards (one will have norn crown)

Never take the Norn Crown. For just 10 points more you can add a Zoanthrope which gives you more synapse and an extra psychic roll. Plus any of your psykers can use Dominion if they roll a power that isn't useful to you, giving the same effect for free.

Shoot, sorry guys, I forgot to mention I have a Tervigon with CC in this list.

I understand your point, xttz about not taking Norn crown, but if you take a Zoanthrope, now you have the chance to give up another KP (that isn't really that difficult @ T4 3++). I do see the value of the additional psychic power though.

roxor08 wrote:
Question 1: Would it be worth adding Regen to both Tyrannofexen to increase their resiliency?

I don't feel its worth it, it leads to people to make sure something is finished off rather thenn have it sit on low wounds to deal with later.

The Zoey isn't bad, but the norn crown covers more ground than a zoey.

While a Zoey adds 113 sq. inches of synapse...the crown gives a creature 141 more sq. in of synapse.

You're covering more ground for less of a cost...this is even more exaggerated when you take base size into account...which I did not.
And even more exaggerated when you factor in dominion for both.

EDIT: But I would never take it on a flyrant...some enemies are just going to lawndart that synapse turn 1/2...its safer on a walkrant, trygon prime, tervigon, or even prime.

Amoras wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
Question 1: Would it be worth adding Regen to both Tyrannofexen to increase their resiliency?

I don't feel its worth it, it leads to people to make sure something is finished off rather thenn have it sit on low wounds to deal with later.

But do most hyper competitive armies have what it takes to remove a 2+/2+Csv/5+FnP T6 W6 model in 1 turn reliably? What about 2 of them?

ductvader wrote:The Zoey isn't bad, but the norn crown covers more ground than a zoey.

While a Zoey adds 113 sq. inches of synapse...the crown gives a creature 141 more sq. in of synapse.

You're covering more ground for less of a cost...this is even more exaggerated when you take base size into account...which I did not.
And even more exaggerated when you factor in dominion for both.

EDIT: But I would never take it on a flyrant...some enemies are just going to lawndart that synapse turn 1/2...its safer on a walkrant, trygon prime, tervigon, or even prime.

Yes, I also won't be making the Norn Walkrant the Warlord so he doesn't have a large of a bullseye on his back.

Being that our psychic powers are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO awesome (*sarcasm*) you have a 50% chance that you'll get a sub par power. So with that Norn Walkrant it isn't a disadvantage to have to swap out for Dominion. Now you've got an 662 sq inches of synapse coverage (if I did my math right).

Zoan with Dominion > fail crown

 Zande4 wrote:
Zoan with Dominion > fail crown

any model with fail crown with dominion > zoey with dominion

I'd really like to hear what TauDar and Eldau players think. What would you RATHER have facing you?

I'd like to see if the poll can at least get 20 participants. That would be at least a decent representation...

I don't understand why people dislike the Norn crown....Yeah, lets get over the fact that GW F*cked us on the IB deal and now we HAVE to take extra synapse. But for 40 points, you seriously can't get ANY synapse for that cheap. Why would you not take it simply based on points conservation?

roxor08 wrote:
I'd really like to hear what TauDar and Eldau players think. What would you RATHER have facing you?

I'd like to see if the poll can at least get 20 participants. That would be at least a decent representation...

I don't understand why people dislike the Norn crown....Yeah, lets get over the fact that GW F*cked us on the IB deal and now we HAVE to take extra synapse. But for 40 points, you seriously can't get ANY synapse for that cheap. Why would you not take it simply based on points conservation?

Because you get a smaller synapse bubble by taking a zoey over it...for 10 more points...unless you sacrifice a psychic power for dominion...then the zoey wins out actually...but I'd much rather have 10 more points, a psychic power, one less kill point, and that all packed into a reliable synapse anchor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...but a Zoey allows you to be in two places at once...

I see the value of being able to be 2 places in once, however, it seems that since Spods were removed from the dex Tyranid forces should rarely be split up.

Tyranids have always worked best when the force is kept together as singleton units are typically focused down. This is even more apparent with the new IB rules and synapse being so important.

I would argue, that due to this *relatively* new interaction within the codex, the Norn crown has more use than a single Zoey....

For those that are interested, the list I'm running, and am concerned with:

Hive Tyrant
Norn crown, BS/LW, Heavy Venom cannon
-Tyrant Guard

Hive Tyrant
BS/LW, Stranglethorn cannon
-Tyrant Guard

Venomthrope

30 Hormagaunts
-Adrenal glands

Tervigon
-Crushing Claws
-Stinger salvo

30 Termagants

2 Dakkafexen

Tyrannofex
-Acid spray
-Shreddershard beetles
-Stinger Salvo

Tyrannofex
-Acid spray
-Shreddershard beetles
-Stinger Salvo

Aegis Defense line

roxor08 wrote:
I'd really like to hear what TauDar and Eldau players think. What would you RATHER have facing you?

I play Tau, Eldar, and a mix between the two.

The only thing that worries me in the Nid codex is multiple T-fexes in a list where they are a) not the only MCs, and b) backed up by Hive Guard. I haven't actually played against it yet, so I could just be paranoid, but still.

Might have to drop a HG to fit it in at 1850, but something like this looks scary to me:

2 Flyrants - 460

9 Hive Guard - 500ish

Tervigon + 30 Gants - 300ish

3 T-Fexes - 600ish

Now, bear in mind, I'm not a Nid player, I don't have the codex in front of me, so I don't know how vulnerable the T-Fexes are to going out of synapse, and I might be glossing over some major pitfalls in this list (especially against other lists than mine). It has Hive Guard to threaten my Serpents, the Tervigon and its kids to hold the backfield, T-Fexes to push me back and keep me busy, and Flyrants to open up a flank. Then again, I do have a lot of fire power so I might just murder everything in a couple of turns.

The only thing I would recommend:

regen on the walkrants, give them a wound two then pass vthe rest onto the guard, then regen them back. They will be taking A LOT of fire every round so they can destroy your synapse and hope to watch you fall apart

Wolfnid420 wrote:
The only thing I would recommend:

regen on the walkrants, give them a wound two then pass vthe rest onto the guard, then regen them back. They will be taking A LOT of fire every round so they can destroy your synapse and hope to watch you fall apart

I've thought about that too, so I considered giving both guards to the Norn crown Tyrant, but then my Warlord will be naked and vice versa....

Although, since the Tyrannofexen will probably be doing most of the heavy lifting, I'd like them to be the ones that get any of those upgrades (if I can afford them.)