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I love the models, the options and the play styles. You can go heavy shooty,or heavy CC. Not to mention their fluff is amazing.

Because their units are made out of wet toilet paper and they have no "point and win" stuff, *ahem*... having the latter is what made Tau's fluff so "interesting" to so many people recently... *cough*

I tried using them on Vassal and I have no idea how I'm supposed to win with this stuff. An update also wouldn't hurt.

Competitively or in General? It must be a Meta thing for you because in my store, including me, there are 3 other DE players. But in a competitive meta DE re usually reserved to be the allies to the their much more competitive cousins. This is quite simply because the most common armies at tournies are Eldar and Tau. Both Eldar and Tau have access to mid-high strength guns with the ability to ignore cover at long range. Dark Eldar have nothing that can defend against a serpent shield, whatever it fires at WILL die. Same with missile pods.

Yes they have lovely models, Yes that have lovely fluff. Heck, they even have great rules, in my opinion being one of the best codex's there is for internal balance. But the power creep is getting the better of them and while they get a huge buff with allied CWE, then the question becomes why not just play CWE?

Good Info. My tourney army is daemons and they sure are powerful. I just got tired of auto stomping most armies. I start dark eldar a few weeks ago, and now I'm hooked...

I started them just a little bit before you did, and it seemed like there was a flurry of new DE players here on Dakka around the time. Given that we're all squabbling like hobos on a taped bum fight down in the Swap Shop forum, I'm not sure Dark Eldar ARE that rare.

Kidding aside, they do seem to be a little less common, probably because they aren't easy to figure out. Frequently, people want to play an army that they can understand easily. Most armies have one or two strategies that require very little experience to master. (Serpentspam, Screamerstar) Dark Eldar don't really have an army-wide strategy that's super easy to understand and exploit. Beaststar or Baronstar are probably the closest they can come. I think that makes the Dark Eldar a less attractive army for people who are looking to start a new one.

In my experience de are one of those armies that got popular then sixth edition came in and the users threw their toys out of the pram rather than adapting their lists

Now, if you search online the world will tell you they suck, when in fact there's some good stuff that can be done, as well as some good models.


Another reason might be that some of the best units (especially hq) don't have models

Yea the whole lack of hq models does irk me... i use an archon for vect, but i would love them to actually release a vect model...

Part of the reason they're so rare is because they don't have quite the same staying power in their fan base as other armies. I mean, I've played guard for many years, and when you pick up an ork army, you're an ork player for life. That kind of hardcore loyalty has sort of never materialized for DE. The end result is that armies like orks, SM, guard, etc. sort of "ratchet" over the years, where they fall back on their player base in lean times, and then add new permanent members during the good times.

Another problem too is the peculiarities of the codex cycle. There was a time recently where DE was going on 10 years with the same codex. This meant they had old rules, and no excitement generated from a new codex. It meant that they were stuck with old models that really, really didn't age very well (and were in more expensive metal, rather than plastic). There were even rumors flying around for awhile about GW just straight dropping DE entirely, sort of like how people are wondering about sisters of battle for the exact same kinds of reasons. All of this meant that there was a stretch where very few people started a DE army, which means their numbers will be relatively lower now.

And then there's the more technical reasons. DE has always been a win big or lose big kind of army that's been difficult to play and not terribly user-friendly. More recently, half of their codex (the close combat part) got completely gutted thanks to 6th edition (especially the old WWP). On the other side, some of the fluff for DE is pretty good, but a lot of it isn't very engaging. In a setting of vast, interstellar empires vying for control of the whole galaxy, DE's role is very minor - they're just sort of a spoiler in the grand scheme of things. This is also why eldar hasn't been very popular with the exception of very recently, but that's just because they just got an overpowered codex - we'll see how much of their fan base is sustained over time, or if it will just be another xenos sugar rush/crash.

On the plus side, though, as jimsolo notes, when an army is out of favor, that's the time to buy minis. Given that we're starting to get close to a new IG codex, it might be time to pick up some stuff...

It's funny you mention this, I've been a chaos player (daemons and csm) for two years. Dark eldar seems very engaging. I can see myself playing them for years. Not to mention its pretty awesome the way commoragh is set, and it can't be infiltrated by any other race!

They're (arguably) weaker than Orks... and Orks are not weak in most ways but they are often getting flattened at tourneys.
Also the models look incredibly hard to paint

Oh, yeah, that too. Not only have their models been old and ugly for most of their run, but even now their models are still not the best, and those that are decent are really hard to make look properly good.

They're sort of like tyranid in that regard. A master-class paintjob makes them look very good, but anything less tends to make them clownish or cartoonish.

Because many people can not handle their sheer awesomeness.
Dark Eldar were my first army. I love them. They are by the far the most fun faction to play and they have the best models as well. They are difficult to play, but when you play them well, they are very competitive. Tactics are everything when playing DE.

One of the best players in our local scene is running Dark Eldar. Granted, as soon as the guys building their Eldar lists finally get rolling he'll stop doing well, but he's been doing quite well against the Chaos Marines, Ghostdar, and Chaos Daemons armies that had been winning around here. If he had the first turn, it tended to be GG as his overwhelming number of shots with poison and all the AP2 lance weapons would cripple anything not in reserves.

Personally, they don't appeal to me as an army, though there are a handful of models I really like. Chaos Marines are more my flavor of badguys than Dark Eldar, but I appreciate the people who do love them.

Anyone else ever notice the personality types that end up being most attracted to each army end up being similar people? Ork players are all almost universally silly, Marines players in all their various flavors tend to be the nerdy guys who love the entire universe and the books especially, IG players almost all have military service backgrounds either personally or through family members. All the Dark Eldar players I know tend to be hyper anime nerds, but the kind that like the badguys because all the other hyper anime nerds love Tau.

I think that Ailros has got a large part of the reason. They just don't have the established fan base that other armies have. This fan base is what advertises armies to new players and how they can be good.

DE are a hard army to learn. Any army where you take 50%+ casualties by the end of turn 2 is always difficult for new players as they usually give up. Then you add how important movement and target priority are to DE and you get a tacticians army.

There is a misconception that DE are weak. That they cannot effectively get into melee. These conceptions are rooted in people who could not figure out the new 6ed DE and are now largely false. Frankie from frontline gaming has a great series of batreps where he just murders Tau with his DE and in the LVO 2 of the top 8 were DE beast pack lists, though admittedly they were CWE as primary. If you get good with your DE you can do very well. Funny enough not a single Tau player made it to top 8 at said GT.

The thing about the models is also fair. They are some of the hardest models to look good and they take forever to pick out all the details. The models are fragile and tend to end up with broken spikes. In some ways DE are the army for people that want to experience every facet of the hobby to the max. If painted and played with skill and determination you will have a gorgeous army that stomps face.

I don't understand it. DE Venoms give me a massive headache as Tau because they're juuuust too far away to deal with properly, (with the range reducing thingy and the 5++ thingy).

The DE player and myself have a mutual fear and loathing for each other that I have never seen before. It's quite an event when we play, glaring daggers at each other during our respective shooting phases and occasionally exclaiming to nobody in particular "wait...you have MORE shots?".

I've absolutely loved Dark Eldar ever since picking up the new codex. I love the wild, aggressive, and sometimes even reckless style needed to play the army. What everyone else has said has been true: that they're an unforgiving learner's army, that their models are hard to really do justice, that there are armies out there with easy-to-pick-up win button tactics. But I think there's another big factor...

Most people seem to play their miniature games at a GW Store or FLGS, yeah? Where the players cart their models to the location and set up a game? Well, has anyone ever tried storing a DE army over 1000pts in an Army Transport box using micro-perforated foam blocks? It is an absolute nightmare to fit all those boats in there. It's also a nightmare to get crazy-pose Hellions in there. And then taking them and all their spiky bits out of the foam can become a tussle. All in all it's a frustrating experience.

A lot of people at my FLGS have DE collections of various sizes, but only one guy regularly brings them to the table. Even mine usually stay at home--though I have a suitably-sized gaming space and plenty of terrain so fortunately still get game time.

 SRSFACE wrote:

Anyone else ever notice the personality types that end up being most attracted to each army end up being similar people? Ork players are all almost universally silly, Marines players in all their various flavors tend to be the nerdy guys who love the entire universe and the books especially, IG players almost all have military service backgrounds either personally or through family members. All the Dark Eldar players I know tend to be hyper anime nerds, but the kind that like the badguys because all the other hyper anime nerds love Tau.

You are incorrect. I love Dark Eldar, but I've never read a single anime in my life. I also higly doubt most IG players have a military background and I know plenty of SM players that are not nerdy at all. (altough 'nerdy' is extremely vague).
I agree on the Ork players though but they are silly in a good way.

As to the DE, the main reason they are less popular than other armies is because they are so much harder to play, as they require very risky, reckless tactics with no certainties.
But as I already said, in the hands of a skilled player the Dark Eldar are really amazing and certainly among the strongest armies.
I also have to agree that a reason is that their models (despite being awesome) are fragile and hard to transport (whether they are hard to paint or not depends on your colour scheme).

Arnt Dark Elder due a new codex sometime soon?

I'm pretty sure there are a few other armies more in need of updating than DE.

I don't know if this question is in the right spot, but I'll ask anyways.

How exactly would I start DE and how do you play them. I understand the vague basics of movement, and target priority, but what else?

Here you go. This is a comprehensive tactical guide updated for 6th edition, followed by a unit guide. I used it when creating my Dark Eldar, and I've been doing remarkably well with them so far.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

You are incorrect. I love Dark Eldar, but I've never read a single anime in my life. I also higly doubt most IG players have a military background and I know plenty of SM players that are not nerdy at all. (altough 'nerdy' is extremely vague).
I agree on the Ork players though but they are silly in a good way.

As to the DE, the main reason they are less popular than other armies is because they are so much harder to play, as they require very risky, reckless tactics with no certainties.
But as I already said, in the hands of a skilled player the Dark Eldar are really amazing and certainly among the strongest armies.
I also have to agree that a reason is that their models (despite being awesome) are fragile and hard to transport (whether they are hard to paint or not depends on your colour scheme).

I don't mean nerdy in a bad way! I love nerds. To me, being nerdy just means being really into something to the point where it creeps into your being. When talking casually to people if you make jokes relating to something you really enjoy even though they might not quite appreciate it, you're probably a nerd, and I love you for it.

Anyway, I was just pointing out my own experiences with players. I mean it with the IG though. Literally ever last guy I know with an IG army at least here in the States is either military or has military service somewhere in the family. Obviously it's never going to be "everybody." I'm willing to bet there's a disproportionately high number of military people who play IG compared to other 40k armies, though.

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

You are incorrect. I love Dark Eldar, but I've never read a single anime in my life. I also higly doubt most IG players have a military background and I know plenty of SM players that are not nerdy at all. (altough 'nerdy' is extremely vague).
I agree on the Ork players though but they are silly in a good way.

As to the DE, the main reason they are less popular than other armies is because they are so much harder to play, as they require very risky, reckless tactics with no certainties.
But as I already said, in the hands of a skilled player the Dark Eldar are really amazing and certainly among the strongest armies.
I also have to agree that a reason is that their models (despite being awesome) are fragile and hard to transport (whether they are hard to paint or not depends on your colour scheme).

I don't mean nerdy in a bad way! I love nerds. To me, being nerdy just means being really into something to the point where it creeps into your being. When talking casually to people if you make jokes relating to something you really enjoy even though they might not quite appreciate it, you're probably a nerd, and I love you for it.

Anyway, I was just pointing out my own experiences with players. I mean it with the IG though. Literally ever last guy I know with an IG army at least here in the States is either military or has military service somewhere in the family. Obviously it's never going to be "everybody." I'm willing to bet there's a disproportionately high number of military people who play IG compared to other 40k armies, though.

I think a lot of people mistake nerdy for geeky...

Dark Eldar have very strong builds, and possibly the only form of armour that actually benefitted from the new hull points rules. Add to that a flyer that is impressive at anti-tank as well as dogfighting, and never needs to jink and you have yourself a recipe for a very powerful list.

Did I mention beast packs? They hurt when they're done well.

Oh, and Sathonyx is just the fething cherry on top, isn't he?

The reason there are so few DE armies is that they are harder to play. I can't explain it any other way.

What other posters have said is true, they are incredibly devastating on the board and have good units. That said, you have to know how to use them. I can't tell you how many times I have tabled DE armies with my CSMs against players who just didn't really know how to time their attacks with these guys.

haha I laughed when I saw the ttile of the thread. good one

 Iron_Captain wrote:

You are incorrect. I love Dark Eldar, but I've never read a single anime in my life.

>Never read an anime

Obviously.


I ran some Dark Eldar back in 3rd where you couldn't shoot through an enemy infantry unit at other infantry, but you could shoot through your own, so I had grotesques line up at the front of my army to be a shield while a ton of infantry with dark lances in the units took down absolutely anything threatening for the first couple turns, then we moved forward and mopped up. IIRC, you couldn't wound grotesques at all with less than a s5 or 6 shot, forget which.

The army works pretty much like their statline. high initiative, high damage output, no defense.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The army works pretty much like their statline. high initiative, high damage output, no defense.

This is an excellent metaphor for dark eldar. Tip my hat.

 Gitsmasher wrote:
I don't know if this question is in the right spot, but I'll ask anyways.

How exactly would I start DE and how do you play them. I understand the vague basics of movement, and target priority, but what else?

In short: get lucky, go first+ night fight for maximum trolling and do not roll crap either. As you either bounce off and die painfully and you can do sod all about it, or you go 'GG' as your army kills everything in sight.

That does not excuse the incredibly boring game I had with mine last week. I looked forward to it and it was like watching paint dry , yuck no playing 40k for a few more weeks or perhaps give it another month

I have always wanted to collect a dark eldar army (I also have eldar which I started back in early 5th edition) and even had a bunch lined up to buy off a friend.

Unfortunately, and this is nothing to do with competitiveness, the army my friend played was a venom spam list and this is not something I really want to play.

I might still pick them up off him as the amount of models for the price was a complete steal, but they would likely only be used in 1500pt games or less or as allies to my eldar because I don't really want to be spending a fortune on them to get them where I want them to be as an army.

Oh and if I did, I would not be fielding baron sathonyx in a unit with a farseer for the 2++ invuln with fortune. That is nasty cheese of the highest order.