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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 00:40:46
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Dakka Veteran
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I've been wondering if anyone else has this particular tic. I need a fair amount of symmetry in my army lists or they make me physically uncomfortable. One unit in a given FOC slot is fine, same with if I take 2 or 3 of the same thing. I can take 1 of one unit and 2 of another, but 1 of each (or, god forbid, 3 different ones) and I'm usually scrapping the list as garbage. HQ seems to be an exception in that two different HQ choices doesn't really bother me. I read someone saying that they'll take Zoanthropes as 1 brood of 1 and 1 brood of 2 thought 'My, what an ugly choice.' Might work just fine, but it's just so... untidy.
So, anyone else share this little idiosyncrasy, or am I alone in this particular little corner of crazy?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 00:47:12
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I totally relate to your posts. One associated problem, I can't buy one of anything!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 00:49:48
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Stormin' Stompa
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I am right there with you, brother. You are not alone.
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
18.000 3.500 8.200 3.300 2.400 3.100 5.500 2.500 3.200 3.000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:15:32
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Me too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:17:44
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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I advise you to never compete in a Highlander tournament, you'd go nuts.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:27:24
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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cookie cutter?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:27:30
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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What really bothers me is when I have, say, two of the same expensive HS choice, except I'm just 5 points away from making them a matched set. And in order to get 5 points I have to make something else asymmetric.
My customary solution to this problem is to have in my army a single of something that can take a bunch of upgrades that I can then add to or remove points from without making it different than a similar squad (CSM terminators are great for this, for example). In the case of me playing guard, though, I'd just have to relegate an unfortunate PCS or two to just being wrong.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:27:32
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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cookie cutter?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:31:24
Subject: Re:Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Hellish Haemonculus
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If I'm fielding multiples of a unit, it drives me absolutely bananas if they aren't all identical.
As another list building quirk, I can field units either at maximum size, minimum size, or maximum size for their dedicated transport. Any other number just crawls under my skin and takes a dump there. I play DE now, and every time I have to take only 9 Kaballite Warriors so I can fit an HQ into the Raider, I have to fight down the urge to chew my own tongue out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:44:28
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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SW GKs in pods work well for this compulsion, but taking a odd number of pods...
ARRRGGGHHH!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:47:54
Subject: Re:Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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I have much the same problem. It doesn't help that in many cases fluff would really support it more than otherwise. I always feel weird taking just one of something.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:50:43
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Minneapolis, MN
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I totally get it, I always gravitate towards adding units in pairs, and it feels weird to have one particular unit outfitted with different wargear (ZOMG MY THIRD TACTICAL SQUAD'S RHINO DOESN'T HAVE DOZER BLADES BUT I DONT HAVE FIVE POINTS TO SPARE ASGDHKJHSDFGLSKGJ)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:55:42
Subject: Re:Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Jimsolo wrote:If I'm fielding multiples of a unit, it drives me absolutely bananas if they aren't all identical.
As another list building quirk, I can field units either at maximum size, minimum size, or maximum size for their dedicated transport. Any other number just crawls under my skin and takes a dump there. I play DE now, and every time I have to take only 9 Kaballite Warriors so I can fit an HQ into the Raider, I have to fight down the urge to chew my own tongue out.
Especially since I'm sure you list looks something like
archon - stuff
10x warriors - raider
10x warriors - raider
10x warriors - raider
9x warriors - raider
... and then that 6 year old wanders into the store with his dad, wanders over to your table, and asks "why does that one just have nine in it?"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 01:57:33
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Time to chime in, I am the exact polar opposite of you guys.
I HATE symmetric lists with a passion. They scream powergaming to me, even if they arent. It used to be really bad in 5th when everyone and their grandmother and dog were fielding mechanized lists with 4+ transports minimum.
Now it isnt so bad, but people spamming the same units over and over make me a sad puppy.
I like varied lists - FUN is when you bring lots of different units to a (non-tourney) game and play with all of them rather than the same, boring, bland, predictable and uninspired setup.
In all my armies the only symmetry I have is that in my Tau and IG forces I usually field 2 Hammerheads / 2 LRBTs, but now I have changed one of the HHs to an Ionhead and one of the LRBTs to another variant due to the Ordnance nerf.
For me variety is the spice of the game. Collecting an army means being able to field and showcase as many different cool units as possible. In my SM armies I like having Vindicators drive up next to Land Raiders, Predators, Land Speeders and Dreadnoughts while my marines shoot the enemy side by side with Centurions and Sniper Scouts with a Whirlwind in support. If I can fit all this into a 2000 point army I am a happy puppy.
Same goes for my Eldar...Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers, Banshees, Scorps, Jetbikes, Vyper, Falcon, Wave Serpent, Rangers, Guardian Defenders, Fire Prism...all of them are present in my 2k point list. Mayking them all work in concert is what makes a battle rewarding, regardless of win or loss, compared to lists like:
Farseer on Jetbike
Warlock on Jetbike
Warlock on Jetbike
Warlock on Jetbike
Warlock on Jetbike
Warlock on Jetbike
Waveserpent Dire Avengers x10
Waveserpent Dire Avengers x10
Waveserpent Dire Avengers x10
Vyper
Vyper
Wraithknight
Wraithknight
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/02/19 02:05:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 02:00:55
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Rampaging Carnifex
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I'm the same way with my Imperial Guard. A couple of months ago when I decided to retool my army to go all on foot with nothing but heavy tanks in support, I drove myself crazy when doing my Leman Russ squadrons. At 1850 I had 2 squadrons of 2 and then an oddball Russ, which just could not compute for me. I still haven't gone back to redoing the list, but yeah I totally understand what you mean.
I'm also in the camp with everyone who must equip their units identically when they take more than one of a particular unit. I'm fine with pairs of units equipped the same though. 2 plasma squads and 2 melta squads is fine, but 2 plas 1 melta? No. Or 4 of the same unit all with different loadouts? HELL NO. Can't do it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 02:10:26
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Sir Arun wrote: FUN is when you bring lots of different units
That's A definition of fun, not THE definition of fun.
Fun for me looks like:
I love both spam lists and symmetric lists, and you can hardly accuse me of being a power gamer, or building my lists just to win games.
Meanwhile, I look at one-of-everything lists and see...
And then I roll my eyes. Like so.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 03:27:17
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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I don't know, symmetric lists just seem kind of lazy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 03:46:52
Subject: Re:Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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I tend to be symetrical when I'm not using something EXACTLY as modeled. it's much easier to say "yeah these guys are just ALL using X"
easier to remember. I mean I try to WYSIWYG but sometimes you show up looking for a 1750 game, and the only other guy is looking for a 1500 game
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 04:43:39
Subject: Re:Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Hellish Haemonculus
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Ailaros wrote: Jimsolo wrote:If I'm fielding multiples of a unit, it drives me absolutely bananas if they aren't all identical.
As another list building quirk, I can field units either at maximum size, minimum size, or maximum size for their dedicated transport. Any other number just crawls under my skin and takes a dump there. I play DE now, and every time I have to take only 9 Kaballite Warriors so I can fit an HQ into the Raider, I have to fight down the urge to chew my own tongue out.
Especially since I'm sure you list looks something like
archon - stuff
10x warriors - raider
10x warriors - raider
10x warriors - raider
9x warriors - raider
... and then that 6 year old wanders into the store with his dad, wanders over to your table, and asks "why does that one just have nine in it?"
And then one of my eyes bulges out and I have an aneurysm.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 05:59:32
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Douglas Bader
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I hate asymmetrical lists because it feels like a lack of commitment. It's rare that the legitimate best strategy will be three different units in a particular FOC slot, so taking one of each suggests that you don't have any confidence in your choices and can't figure out which one is best. And it's especially bad when the whole list is like that. An occasional split FOC slot might be justified by point limits or whatever, but a "take one of everything" list is just bad list design.
Sir Arun wrote:Collecting an army means being able to field and showcase as many different cool units as possible.
IMO it's the exact opposite: collecting an army means collecting an army, not just a bunch of random models. A good and fluffy army has a coherent theme and makes meaningful choices of unit A instead of unit B, a "take one of everything" army lacks this theme entirely.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 06:26:39
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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I agree with both sides of this.
Collecting an army means collecting an army, with a coherent theme.
It also allows you to field and showcase as many different units as you care to.
My solution: Buy everything  Max out every entry in your dex, then proceed to weep as you realise just how many models you have to paint...
Then you can build several different armies, and mix it up as you wish. My Orks , technically, are four seperate themed armies, across six Klans.
Worked for my Orks, works for my DE, My Daemons are a special case, as i'm running them mono-god....
Of course you have to be a special kind of insane to do this
On-topic : Asymmetric lists don't bother me as much with my Orks, and my Daemons are already laid out as individuals with specific wargear for each unit/ IC.
MY DE tend to make me twitch if i can't get the points lined up right though  go figure..
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 07:19:53
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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What bugs me most is when I *do* have two of the same unit, but they're just ever so slightly different or have an odd number of models. Like, say I'm Orks, and I've only got 2 Elites squads left an enough points for 25 Lootas. I'll buy two squads of ten and drop the 75 remaining points elsewhere.
One way around this for me is to make the units seem appropriately 'Rounded.' For example, 5 TWC with a single TH/SS model run just fine with 3 TWC with a single TH but three SSs. Does that make sense?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 10:11:49
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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On the whole I'm not at all bothered with asymetric lists, I just take what's cool and very rarely duplicate anything outside of troops.
What does bug me is when I use IG stormtroopers. They are the ONLY thing in the whole codex whose base cost is not divisible by 5! While I don't think they really need a points drop, I'd like them to go to 15ppm just so it's less mathematically annoying.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 10:25:30
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Major
Middle Earth
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Paradigm wrote:On the whole I'm not at all bothered with asymetric lists, I just take what's cool and very rarely duplicate anything outside of troops.
What does bug me is when I use IG stormtroopers. They are the ONLY thing in the whole codex whose base cost is not divisible by 5! While I don't think they really need a points drop, I'd like them to go to 15ppm just so it's less mathematically annoying.
This drives me nuts as well, I now HAVE to field them in either 5 or 10 because otherwise I'll have an odd number of points in one of my units. I hate it when I see 2 pt or 3 pt upgrades, like frag and krak grenades in 4th edition because it throws the whole list out by 1 or 2 pts and it just gets under my skin. Fantasy is like this as well.
Multiples of 5 GW its not that hard. I'm willing to pay a few more points for an upgrade if it becomes divisible by 5.
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We're watching you... scum. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 10:33:34
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Kovnik
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At first I was thinking "Gak, that dude must be Monk" but then it hit me: Space Wolves Drop Pod army. I just can“t put 9 dudes in a pod. Guess I do feel you after all xD
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 10:42:51
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Douglas Bader
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Sure it is. Having everything be even multiples of 5 requires that everything be balanced in 5-point increments. If an upgrade is worth 3 points then it's absolutely stupid to make it cost 5 points just so a few obsessive people can have perfectly even lists.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 11:36:59
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Sinewy Scourge
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I have to spend to the points limit AND have a symmetric list AND be tourney quality. Good job I like list building.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 12:24:46
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Cosmic Joe
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You guys would hate my Imperial Fist army. (runs for cover)
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Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 15:12:07
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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When I play IG most of my things are symmetrical or else I'd go insane trying to remember what I put where.
Grey Knights don't have the same problem, I rarely have enough points to take multiple identical units so I'll just give them whatever I think they'll need for a game and be done with it.
Much more of a convenience thing for me than an aesthetic problem.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/02/19 15:21:29
Subject: Anyone else bothered by asymmetric lists?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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EmilCrane wrote:This drives me nuts as well, I now HAVE to field them in either 5 or 10 because otherwise I'll have an odd number of points in one of my units. I hate it when I see 2 pt or 3 pt upgrades, like frag and krak grenades in 4th edition because it throws the whole list out by 1 or 2 pts and it just gets under my skin. Fantasy is like this as well.
Well, it's not so bad when you have a lot of options. The 3.5 guard codex wasn't so bad because it had 1-3 point upgrades, but it had a lot of them, so if you bought that must-have 3 point upgrade, you could easily throw two points at a pair of bolt pistols or something to round it out.
In our current codex, though... maddening. Stormtroopers and smoke launchers for hellhounds and sentinels... sigh. At least stormtroopers work best in squads of size 5 or 10, but still...
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