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So taking all the rumors from the main Astra Militarum thread, I've been trying to piece together how the codex will look like come Saturday. I am debating whether I should really buy it or not (my gaming group isnt super competetive, so playing with an older dex isnt taboo). Here's the arguments I have so far:


The good:

1) Improved orders, more orders
2) Pretty awesome warlord traits. Arguably the best of any codex released so far.
3) Being able to field Leman Russ tanks with a dirt cheap tank commander and 1 additional Russ (upto 2) as HQ. Oh and pretty nice tank orders, to boot!
4) better Leman Russ points cost balancing - nobody used to take the Punisher in the previous codex. Now, it is very much an option. Oh and the Eradicator got perhaps the best deal of all - massive points sink despite it never sucking in the previous codex. And Executioner also got a massive points sink, but has Gets Hot now. But hey - if you got a Primaris behind a squad of at least 2, it pays off and his prescience allows you to re-roll the gets hot rolls. Alternately, if your tank commander is Pask, you get this automatically as warlord trait.
5) Armored Sentinel massive points reduction - now more people will field these beauties.
6) Better Commissars - slight points reduction, don't automatically summary execute upon failing morale, and if you choose to, they don't auto-kill your sarges; also squad auto-passes morale upon summary execution, and you can attach them to pretty much every squad.
7) Much better Priests + Warhymns
8) Bullgryns (solid armor saves when in b2b, ability to protect units behind them by upping their cover save, and in combination with a priest, are there to stay, with a chance to re-roll their armor saves in cc. Now that's what I call a speed bump unit)
9) Cheaper vehicle upgrades all across the board, cheaper sniper rifles (3 sniper SWS squad costs 36 points now instead of the staggering 50 it used to in the old codex, making it a dirt cheap scoring unit that can hide and sit on an objective)
10) Veteran boost - their grenadiers doctrine dropped significantly in price and is now almost an auto-include.
11) Nork Deddog, like all the other Ogryns in this codex, gained HoW & lost furious charge, but dropped 25 points and gained a nice S8 AP3 concussive headbutt alternate special attack. And instead of making D6 attacks when he loses his last wound, he now makes 4 or can choose to do the headbutt and in both cases re-rolls all failed hits and wounds. In any case is more worth it now than he was in the previous codex.
12) Kell has dropped by 10 points and is otherwise largels the same.
13) Yarrick dropped a staggering 40 points in cost and kept most of his gear, but his unit is no longer Fearless and no longer re-rolls failed hits on the turn they charge; he also lost his Stubborn bubble and for some reason doesnt even grant it to his own unit (unlike Lord Commissars and Commissars in this new codex). However, he gained PE (Orks), Summary Execution (Yarrick couldnt perform this in the previous codex due to granting his unit fearless in the first place) and most importantly, can now issue upto 2 orders just like any Company Commander. His force field also got changed to a solid 4++ and his warlord trait is the one that makes your gunline surrounding him not take Leadership tests when taking casualties from shooting. I'd say the things he lost are insignificant compared to the things he gained AND his much lower points cost.
14) Techpriests have been buffed, such as being able to repair lost HPs and their servitors dropping in points. Oh and they now also have the ability to grant PotMS to a nearby tank.
15) Medic upgrade in the CCS only costs half as much now. Very handy, although FNP isnt what it used to be in 5th editon.
16) CONSCRIPTS! They got even cheaper now, also come with frags, and will see regular play being led by ministorum priests or comissars. The odd primaris psyker may also tag along and cast prescience on them since he has access to divination; all those BS2 lasgun re-rolls will be awesome.
17) Primaris Psyker. I like the new one. He does not occupy a valuable HQ slot, you can field upto 3 of them independently, and while they did lose their old (somewhat cool) powers, having access to multiple psychic disciplines (especially divination) means that for relatively low points costs you can use these guys as force multipliers on nearby shooty squads like Conscripts, Lascannon-HWS, Executioner LRs to prevent them from overheating etc. Just keep them out of harm's way.
18) Augur Arrays on vehicles - basically teleport homers that also work on any allied units. Precision deep strikes everywhere.
19) Better camo netting - not only points reduction, but they still work if your tank moved.
20) Deathstrike. Seriously. Nobody really took these in the old codex and I am really glad the new one has made them viable. The real damage this vehicle will do to your opponent is not physical, but psychological. I know i'd lose my shiz if there was a ticking time bomb sitting completely out of LoS in the enemy's deployment zone. It would cause me to make tactical errors and spread my units out and away from cover and have them annihilated by other Guard weapons before the Deathstrike even launched.
21) Knight Commander Pask. The biggest winner in the new codex. Elevated from what used to be an okayish upgrade for LR variants that needed a better Ballistic skill (Vanquisher, Punisher) to a literal MUST HAVE in the new AM codex. You can up the ballistic skill of LR tanks in the new codex, as well as get access to tank orders and D3 instead of D6 warlord traits via the default Tank Commander. What Pask (bought for the same amount of points as in the old IG codex as an additional upgrade over the tank commander upgrade) brings to the table is the default Warlord trait allowing his entire squadron to re-roll 1s (both to-hit AND to-wound!!!!) due to Preferred Enemy: Everything. He also lets your tank re-roll failed armor penetration rolls instead of just that +1 he used to have. And finally he gives the main turret weapon of each LR variant a unique special ability - e.g. rending for the LR Punisher, making it the most ridiculous bullethose in the entire IG arsenal - being able to severely cripple anything that comes in its range, from infantry to MCs to even Land Raiders thanks to the plethora of USRs working in concert.
22) Incandescent Blast. People don't realize how good this is. Thanks to GW's crappy blind rule wording, 8 models hit by Pask's Executioner Incandescent Blast means 8 blind tests for the affected unit. This is brilliant. 7th edition might fix this though.
23) IG got a lot better as an allied detachment choice for non-IG players, as well. Earlier, you had to take a CCS or Lord Commissar or Primaris Psyker as "tax" for the mandatory HQ and then look for a way to keep them effective. In the new codex, a 30 point tank commander is all you need to get going, though you now have to take a minimum of 2 Russes if you go with this option. But that usually wont be much of an issue, as people willing to ally with IG are mostly doing so for access to Russes in the first place. And a 30 point HQ that gives one of your Russes BS4 and tank orders is pure win, in my opinion.
24) Taurox Prime (expensive glass cannon, but a very mobile BS4 anti-tank unit at 100 pts.)
25) Wyvern (shining gem of the new codex - essentially more than a replacement for the Griffon; the Wyvern MURDERS infantry in the new 7th edition rules).
26) Tempestus Scion command squad (looks cool modelwise, and ruleswise the concept of spamming 4 hot shot volley guns is also sweet).

The neutral:

1) Valkyrie price hike. I dont mind this at all, since it is a flyer and thus far more survivable than in 5th edition which the previous codex was written for. Besides, given the points reduction of the Valkyrie's own upgrades, I think it evens out. What sucks is that Hellstrike missiles are virtually useless now because Ordnance reduces the BS for all other shots to 1.
2) Vendetta significant price hike and transport capacity reduction. It was obviously necessary, but right now it is 10 points too much, IMO. But given their spam in the competitive meta, I'm not too peeved about this and can live with it, especially since it makes the Valkyrie more attractive. As if a Vendetta alone wasnt bad enough, Vendettas spamming triple melta Vets was a nightmare. Now that is gone, you can still spam triple Melta SWS with them, though, although this requires an infantry platoon. Such is the way of bringing balance to the meta, I guess. As long as the Night Scythe gets a points hike in the coming Cron codex, I'll be fine with this. Let's leave the Chaos players with their overpowered Helldrake, since the rest of their codex sucks balls anyways.
3) Chimeras going up in price. I agree that after the Wave Serpent, Chimeras really were one of the most dakka laden dedicated transports in the game, so spamming them (even in 6th ed's hullpoint era) wasnt a bad decision, but was a 10 point increase really necessary? ESPECIALLY when the Inquisition codex still lists them at their original points cost? GW just doesnt seem to be able to make their mind up even within the same edition it seems. Unless of course they stealth update it, given that the Inquisition codex is digital only.
4) meh relics.
5) Ogryns didnt really get fixed - they lost furious charge for HoW. Which is bad because a 3 man unit of Ogryns charging used to get 12 S6 I3 attacks in the old codex, while in the new ones this charge only yields 12 S5 I2 +3 S5 HoW attacks. But on the pro side you can now attach priests to them and they will benefit from war hymns, so have fun re-rolling ALL their wounds in close combat everytime the priest passes his LD test (which is kinda meh, to be honest). As well as hits for the first round, because priests have the zealot special rule. Oh and quasi-fearless.
6) Ratlings. They can run after shooting now. Hoo-fething-ray. How often are we going to use this anyway?
7) The changes to Officer of the Fleet and Astropath. The former has now both abilities, but can only use one each turn, and also has to test before doing it. The latter is now a level 1 psyker that has access to Telepathy, so you're hoping to get Puppet Master or Invisibility with him. In all other instances, it is preferable for him to keep Psychic Shriek.
8) Stormtroopers. Namechange aside, the default 5 man squad got 15 points cheaper (so now each trooper costs as much as a space marine instead of 2 points more and there is no extra tax for the sarge) and comes with Move Through Cover by default, but lost their special operations missions, so no more Scouts (and with it, Outflank), no more Infiltrate or re-roll scatter or first turn pinning on their weapons.
9) The Manticore went up by 10 points AND cannot fire directly anymore. Oftentimes subtracting those 3 inches could make all the difference. On the other hand, if it suffers a weapon destroyed result, it no longer loses the entire Stormeagle rocket rack, so that's definitely a huge improvement. Still, given these other two nerfs we have to contend with, I'll put this one in the neutral department.
10) Creed can give one less order now, but for that can re-roll all failed order checks. He can use the Gunslinger USR to fire both his hot shot laspistols instead of counting them as a single twin-linked one, and while he did lose his ability to grant a single unit the Scouts USR, he makes up for it by being 10 points cheaper and being able to roll for an additional warlord trait now, increasing the chance to get the Grand Strategist warlord trait (outflank D3 units) from 16.66% to about 30%. Sadly he has lost the unique For the Honour of Cadia! order.


The ugly:

1) Chenkov is gone
2) Al Rahem is gone
3) Mogul Kamir is gone
4) Bastonne is gone
5) Marbo is gone (and NO, he will NOT be coming back. Given the recent direction GW has been going in creating and trademarking their own IP, to the extent of not giving a flying frak about their players and rebranding the name of one of the most popular 40k armies just to be able to trademark the name, I am sure they will no longer openly continue to sell a model whose name is an obvious mockup of Sylvester (Stallone) / Rambo. Not in a million years will this guy come back in the form of a digital supplement, not as long Tom Kirby is running the business. At least, not with his current name. Bur seriously, when was the last time GW went to the lengths of changing an ICs name and bringing him back?)
6) Harker got nerfed into oblivion - costs the same, has relentless now (standardized GW policy of applying rulebook USRs instead of writing it out longhand in each codex), and the only new ability is that his Heavy Bolter got rending, but he lost his own feel no pain (no biggie in 6th - was good in 5th), but more importantly, his ability to grant veterans infiltrate, move through cover and stealth (dangit! I LIKED infiltrating one of my veteran squads (preferably the 3 melta and 1 Lascannon one) and also giving them forward sentries so they could start the game with 2+ cover (thanks to stealth + cloaks) close to enemy tanks and fry them, with Harker's HB providing anti-infantry support along with the rest of the BS4 lasguns, now this tactic is down the drain). He is now only worth 15 points, 20 if you add in the "coolness" tax. But CERTAINLY NOT the points cost in the new dex.
7) The Griffon is gone (still in FW Imperial Armor books with identical stats and identical points cost as in the old IG codex, so you can technically use your old IG dex as "counts-as" Imperial Armor book and decide to slap your friend with it if he says thats illegal) - in any case we got the Wyvern
8) The awesome Colossus is gone (see above)
9) The Medusa is gone (see above)
10) The Penal Legion is gone (okay nobody really took them anyway, but these guys had character! And a great way to play Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers)
11) The Hydra nerf. Like, seriously. Going from an original 4 tl-S7 AP4 shots solid infantry hunter with ignores cover on turboboosting bikes (good vs ork bikers) and skimmers moving fast (making it an excellent light vehicle hunter) to being 6th ed FAQ'd to have skyfire (goodbye infantry hunter, but hello flyers, FMCs and still effective against skimmers) and ignores jink to just 4 tl-S7 AP4 skyfire AND OPEN TOPPED NOW for a mere 5 points reduction is hard to digest. Purchasing the closed crew compartment upgrade will bring it to 85 points, which is 10 points COSTLIER than the previous codex' iteration. Minus the ignores jink errata. Despite 7th edition's interceptor nerf, the fact that the ADL Quadgun at least has it, and that it can be fired by BS4 IG troopers, and that it is cheaper than the Hydra make it a more lucrative choice now (also because you dont have to pay extra $$$ for it if you buy an ADL, which most IG players now already have). Well at least the Hydra can move and shoot, and can be taken in a battery and thus will provide reliable AA concentration in higher point games.
12) The Psyker Battle squad has been turned from a pretty cool, useful unit that got stronger with each additional psyker into a mastery level 1 psyker with inferior rulebook powers and now also only LD8 instead of LD9 for the same points cost. Compared with Primaris Psykers, they're even worse because of their inferior LD and the fact that they occupy an Elites slot. Their only pro side is their larger body (and thus wound) count, and the fact that you can hide the majority of them behind LoS blocking terrain and have one guy pop out and do all the casting till he dies, and then rinse and repeat, while the Primaris Psyker is more vulnerable.
13) points cost increase for plasma pistol and power weapons on BS3 / S3 / I3 characters from 10 to 15. really, GW? Power weapons on IG were eye candy to begin with, now you punish us even more for this.
14) 5 years on, they still haven't realized that the Heavy Bolter should not be as costly as the Autocannon or nobody will take them because the Autocannon simply is the better option due to additional range and additional strength, at the cost of 1 shot. The HB should have gone down in price and cost the same as a Mortar, but NOPE. GW doesnt care.
15) We did not get any (non-D-weapon-toting) Baneblade variant as a super heavy even though Imperial Knights as super heavy walkers with D strength weapons are out and about.
16) The Taurox. An absolute disappointment, ruleswise. 11/10/10 seriously? That makes it more fragile than a Rhino! And its FIFTEEN points costlier than a Rhino, to boot.
17) No Solar Macharius, Gaunt or Schaeffer. We waited 5 years and still they aren't bothered to write them in. Imma slap anyone who brings up the word dataslate as retaliation.
18) Every army that has been updated so far by GW in 6th edition, got something powerful and nice to play with that shifted the meta. Chaos - Hellturkey. Tau - Riptide. Eldar - Wraithknight. Space Marines - Centurion Devastators. I think the Tyranid's new Flyer also performs pretty well. What awesome new unit did we get? Nothing. The Taurox sucks, the Hydra is faaar from scary now and the Wyvern is perhaps the only semi-decent new tank that was added to our arsenal. But more anti-GEQ firepower is exactly what we wanted. Right? .....right? It's not like we didn't have Eradicators and Manticores or simply massed lasgun fire to get the job done. Okay, we have the Paskisher, I'll give you that, but the Paskisher wasnt a pushover in the old codex either.
19) Rough Riders ACTUALLY GOT WORSE. 5 years of waiting for.... what? +1 point increase? You're kidding me, GW. You are seriously kidding me. Sure, Beasts & Cavalry can move 12" and assault 2D6" now instead of moving 6" and assaulting 12" like they did in 5th edition, and also have HoW now (woooow), but given the power lance AP nerf, Rough Riders still suck, and without Mogul Kamir, arguably even harder now.
20) no improvement for the Hellhound, Banewolf and Devil Dog. In fact, the latter went up by 10 points. Okay, so its blast strength is no longer halved if the central hole scatters off the target vehicle, and it can move 12" and also fire its hull mounted multi-melta at normal BS now in 6th, so I guess the small points increase was justified. However, the Banewolf still lacks torrent to even be worth taking, and, given how Eradicators have gained a significant price drop, the Hellhound (even back in 5th this one used to be the only semi-competetive option) is almost not worth considering anymore, unless you build a mechanized chimera list that zooms 12" and has Hellhounds keep up with them compared to the much slower Russes.
21) Straken. He received a staggering 35 point increase and gained the fearless, monster hunter and smash special rules (his attacks ignore all armor saves due to Smash granting AP2, but because 7th edition nerfed the smash double strength special attacks to just one attack, his 2D6 armor pen is now only possible with the single special smash attack) and is now forced to issue and accept challenges. Everything else stayed the same, except him losing his counter-attack and furious charge bubble from 12" to 6". His default warlord trait makes his CCS relentless, so thats great news for the Lascannon upgrade, but otherwise I'd say this guy actually got worse in CC and his huge points cost just does not make him worth it. However, a good way for die hard Catachan fans to use him is give his CCS a Lascannon and a MoO and put him in a Chimera. Monster Hunter also works on the units' shooting as it applies to every model in a squad so long as just one model possesses the rule; a Master of Ordnance and a Lascannon that both shoot from the top hatch of the Chimera, re-rolling to-wound against monstrous creatures is sure to hurt ground-based Tyranid armies!

Make of the codex what you will. Personally I think they had the chance to make an awesome codex until they decided to just snip away stuff left, right and centre. Oh and made a couple units that were cool, more than redundant in the current dex - why? Because reasons.

As a Tyranid player, let me bust out my small Vvolin for you.

In all reality, it's pretty hard to evaluate a full codex overnight. Give it some time.

 Sasori wrote:
As a Tyranid player, let me bust out my small Vvolin for you.

In all reality, it's pretty hard to evaluate a full codex overnight. Give it some time.

Yeah, it took at least 13 hours to reach a consensus that the Tyranid codex sucked, lol. And 4 months later.... yup, still sucks.

I dont see too much of a problem. I have all the imperial guard books and they all got changed up each edition. People talk favorably about those editions.

I dont like the removal of non special character units (such as the rumored artillery) But Guard characters can still be used as commanders or replacement special characters for new ones.

BUT if Marbo is gone for good im gonna be annoyed. Who doesnt have a marbo? More importantly who didnt have fun making their marbo? I will miss marbo dundee. Sigh.

I mean it could be worse, could be better, but what isnt in that situation.

When did the 5th edition codex come out? I remember it coming out but I never played guard at the time unfortunately so didnt pay attention.

I dont normally buy without testing but I feel confident in buying this book. Lets see if it was a dumb move.

I do love the new commissar rules though. No more will my officers be executed for no reason.

Marines won't really miss the whirlwind - no-one uses them anyway.

So, they removed the models they weren't ever going to upgrade and/or produce (they made Griffons in 2nd ed and they stuck around until 3rd ed).

I'm kinda glad I stopped building my guard army last edition.

For the love of god guys, get a grip. The book isn't even out yet and already your endless weeping and lamentation is filling the void.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
For the love of god guys, get a grip. The book isn't even out yet and already your endless weeping and lamentation is filling the void.

Yeah, we may be pleasantly surprised. Probably not though

Well, ''The ugly'' part is really bad news. I'll buy the codex but no models.

hell, dark angels got to be the sloppy rebound before they introduced the ACTUAL space marines codex.... AGAIN!!!!

I'd really like it if GW actually explained why changes were made or why some things stayed the same and gave reasonings behind them rather than making themselves seem immensely arbitrary.

It'd at least make me feel better.

Well, I was thinking about starting an IG army. (Of CHAOS!!!) but it makes me sad to hear that ogryn weren't fixed. I'd have loved to convert a squad of them.

I kinda hate GW now....

 Nevie wrote:
Well, I was thinking about starting an IG army. (Of CHAOS!!!) but it makes me sad to hear that ogryn weren't fixed. I'd have loved to convert a squad of them.

They lost their frag grenades, they lost Stubborn and they lost Furious Charge. Talk about nerf...

They gained relentless (wtf), krak grenades and hammer of wrath in exchange.

Don't worry, furious charge is no loss.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Nevie wrote:
Well, I was thinking about starting an IG army. (Of CHAOS!!!) but it makes me sad to hear that ogryn weren't fixed. I'd have loved to convert a squad of them.

They lost their frag grenades, they lost Stubborn and they lost Furious Charge. Talk about nerf...

They gained relentless (wtf), krak grenades and hammer of wrath in exchange.

Stubborn is the big problem as it makes running them off the board much easier. Especially when Ogryns have such terrible leadership scores for such expensive models.

 Kain wrote:
I'd really like it if GW actually explained why changes were made or why some things stayed the same and gave reasonings behind them rather than making themselves seem immensely arbitrary.

It'd at least make me feel better.

I may not be from GW, but I can let you in on the summary of corporate meetings over the last two years.

GW CEO "our records show that in the last edition, models X, Y and Z sold really well, good job everyone!, now with 6th edition we need to spice it up a bit, we have these new models over here that jeff is really proud of, how can we get models a, b, and C to out sell xyz?"
GW Lackey, "well we could just make the x, y and z not quite as good as a b and c, I mean really bad."
GW CEO "great idea! now we have these other models we have rules for, but no models, we don't want those pricks over at chapterhouse to take our money again, so let's just tear those units out!"
GW lackeys "HUZZAH! now they have to pay the overpiced cost for a forgeworld book just to play that model!!!"
GW CEO: "that's right, i was such a genius for saying that anything we put out is legal to play in any game! which is funny, because we are after all, a 'model company' so we don't need to worry about balance or fair play, but we will charge the hell out of them for rules!

Wait till the book is in hand. Dont trust the rumors.

I myself, with a 500 point jusdt for fun IG list and a 17 month old will not be buying it. No time to play.

 jason1977 wrote:
Wait till the book is in hand. Dont trust the rumors.

The 'rumours' at this point are screencaps of previews, pre-release books, and pictures of the actual, legit book.

 Blacksails wrote:

 jason1977 wrote:
Wait till the book is in hand. Dont trust the rumors.

The 'rumours' at this point are screencaps of previews, pre-release books, and pictures of the actual, legit book.

While true, not everything is confirmed.

 jason1977 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 jason1977 wrote:
Wait till the book is in hand. Dont trust the rumors.

The 'rumours' at this point are screencaps of previews, pre-release books, and pictures of the actual, legit book.

While true, not everything is confirmed.

No, but at the same time, people aren't bemoaning the unconfirmed aspects. Things like the removal of several units have been confirmed though, as have several point values for units.

Alternatively, I haven't heard a peep about Hellhounds, which I'd be interested in knowing more about.

Even though I don't play ig I did buy the limited edition dex, just so I can be that be that guy.

Al Rahem is still on the UK website, so he may still be in...

All of them probably end up in a heros of the AM DLC a few weeks after the AM codex comes out .

Here is for hoping we get realy powerful orders and the warlord traits are realy good and not something like , AM can shot rapid fire weapons and then charge .

No idea why they made a new model like hydra so bad. Do they want all AM players to use tau as ally or FW in areas where FW is allowed?

Great list Sir Arun. You summed up my thoughts exactly. Its very difficult to see the good that will come out of this codex with the overwhelming nerfs to almost the entire codex. Did we see some awesome buffs in some areas? Yes, but at the cost of half of the codex's versatility. The new codex will have 2-3 builds that are effective & everything else will not be tournament viable. Did GW really think we wouldn't notice losing like 50% or more of our special characters? I was actually really excited about the new Ogryn models. Saw the rules, nope.

Wonder if this dex is getting the "written by GW dev team" treatment as well.

Makumba wrote:
No idea why they made a new model like hydra so bad. Do they want all AM players to use tau as ally or FW in areas where FW is allowed?

Probably because whoever wrote the rules (I won't dignify them with the title "game designer") is still stuck in early 5th, when Hydras were considered overpowered. Playtesting that would spot the mistake is too expensive according to GW, so we're stuck with a new kit for a unit that is already too weak to use, with new rules that make it even weaker.

Alternatively, yes, GW wants you to ally in FW stuff and spend more money. But only after you buy a few of the new Hydra kits to try them out!

If this is true it means that so many old armies are getting the bull kicked out of them so that new armies can be brought only as their half decent

 Peregrine wrote:

Makumba wrote:
No idea why they made a new model like hydra so bad. Do they want all AM players to use tau as ally or FW in areas where FW is allowed?

Probably because whoever wrote the rules (I won't dignify them with the title "game designer") is still stuck in early 5th, when Hydras were considered overpowered. Playtesting that would spot the mistake is too expensive according to GW, so we're stuck with a new kit for a unit that is already too weak to use, with new rules that make it even weaker.

Alternatively, yes, GW wants you to ally in FW stuff and spend more money. But only after you buy a few of the new Hydra kits to try them out!

But it is odd , they make stuff like buffmanders and skyfire/interceptor riptides and then make something like the hydra . An AA gun without interceptor makes no sense and it doesn't require much playtesting . If something has a big ass turret and is mounted on a chimera hull , then the chance to survive to turn 2 , if the opposing army has important flyer units, is slim . Maybe your right they want us to buy them in squadrons in 2500+pts base games , maybe it is that.

Did we see some awesome buffs in some areas? Yes, but at the cost of half of the codex's versatility. The new codex will have 2-3 builds that are effective & everything else will not be tournament viable.

I would be happy if we had 3 different builds out of the codex. Eldar have 2 , not counting the titan one with escalation . Tau have two too , depending what ever they take eldar or farsight as ally. Having 3 builds without ally would make AM the best codex in 6th.

I'm a guard player. That means keeping up the guard rules as they change over time. If I didn't get the new codex, I wouldn't be a guard player. I'd be a person who plays a guard-like army with old rules.

Like the rules or don't like them, I'm still going to be buying them.

And if ogryn indeed have lost stubborn, that's not much of a loss. At Ld7 with no choice of rerolls you had to provide them with external leadership support anyways. They could have been reduced to Ld2 for all I care - my ogryn always use commissar's leadership anyways.

Get things straight, if we whine and moan now, when the codex is released we can only be pleasantly surprised with such low expectations!

I had been building up my IG for a while now so I will be as brutal as possible in figuring out at least a "half decent" build for these guys. Failing that, finding a good army to ally with.

I had made a Medusa... who would have figured they would trim down the choices rather than add.

I am a bit concerned in the designer direction that they feel the "theme" of IG is the people so open topped vehicles for everyone!! I must grumble something about "hostile environments", "life is portrayed as not cheap but expendable like snotlings" and fine, can you fix the Basilisk shortage so I get more of that weird artillery at my local hobby shop?

Will see what we can do with the Ogryn, it would be nice to find an excuse to at least have one squad. The ratlings have had their days so they need theirs.

Why do I have a suspicion this army is only good for Tanks and hordes of guys all over the place?

Anyway, await the codex and we can drown the "white knights" in a sea of lamenting...