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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Does it make you miss Matt Ward's fluff Vakathi?

In terms of content, it's just as bad as much of his stuff, and I think in terms of just the mechanics of the actual writing itself, it might actually be worse

And this is for an army I've been wanting to see ever since starting 40k

Everything I've read on it seems " meh". A couple of good buffs in places but then some nerfs in others. No better or No worse than the last one.

Hollismason wrote:
Everything I've read on it seems " meh". A couple of good buffs in places but then some nerfs in others. No better or No worse than the last one.

A LOT of points drops across the board. Very few upticks in points and they're mostly on things that deserved it, or needed it with how the rules now work.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Everything I've read on it seems " meh". A couple of good buffs in places but then some nerfs in others. No better or No worse than the last one.

A LOT of points drops across the board. Very few upticks in points and they're mostly on things that deserved it, or needed it with how the rules now work.

To be fair, a lot of those things that got price drops also lost capabilities and in some cases, despite the cost decrease, were painfully nerfed (e.g. Hydra now open topped and lost its signature special rule for a 5pt drop) while others still struggle to really be what they should (Scions are cheaper than the older ST's but don't have as many cool special rules and still have some of the same problems).

 ClockworkZion wrote:
One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

so how costly is the armored sentinel?

also, is it true that ogryns did not lose stubborn or their frag grenades, but did not gain krak grenades?

And according to that site, Scions are Troops choices now but need a Scion Command Squad, is that correct?

 Ailaros wrote:

Sir Arun wrote: Tell me IG players arent getting shafted right now.

How is this different than any other codex that's come out recently that wasn't overpowered?

Tyranid got a new codex that wasn't OP, which means that tyranid players got shafted, and CSM and DA got new codices that weren't overpowered, and they got shafted. It's like people want a well-balanced game so long as their own codex gets stronger every time...

Everyone needs to be as good as Tau/Eldar. That's what would bring balance.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

so how costly is the armored sentinel?

also, is it true that ogryns did not lose stubborn or their frag grenades, but did not gain krak grenades?

And according to that site, Scions are Troops choices now but need a Scion Command Squad, is that correct?

Scions are only troop choices in Militarum Tempestus. In Astra Militarum you can have a platoon of scions which take up a single elite slot.

A platoon consists of 1-3 units of scions and may include a single command squad.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
One review for the curious: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/04/new-release-codex-astra-militarum.html

so how costly is the armored sentinel?

I gave you how many points something shifted by (if at all) compared to the current codex, so just look at that and do the basic math. I'm not posting points values and potentially putting myself in hot water.

 Sir Arun wrote:
[also, is it true that ogryns did not lose stubborn or their frag grenades, but did not gain krak grenades?

Correct, but very few models come standard with Krak Grenades.

 Sir Arun wrote:
[And according to that site, Scions are Troops choices now but need a Scion Command Squad, is that correct?

You didn't read a single thing I wrote in that whole article did you? Scions are clearly an Elite choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Sir Arun wrote: Tell me IG players arent getting shafted right now.

How is this different than any other codex that's come out recently that wasn't overpowered?

Tyranid got a new codex that wasn't OP, which means that tyranid players got shafted, and CSM and DA got new codices that weren't overpowered, and they got shafted. It's like people want a well-balanced game so long as their own codex gets stronger every time...

Everyone needs to be as good as Tau/Eldar. That's what would bring balance.

Tau/Eldar just need a good beating with a NERF bat.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You didn't read a single thing I wrote in that whole article did you? Scions are clearly an Elite choice.

I read exactly what you wrote. Here, let me spell it out for you:

"Militarum Tempestus Platoon:

Consists of 1 Militarum Command Squad, 1-3 Militarum Tempestus Scions. Each Platoon counts as a single Troops slot on the FOC.".

Yes you have put it in the Elites section, but with a wording like that you are only confusing your readers. The "consists of 1 Militarum Command Squad" also makes it appear that in order to field 1 Militarum Tepestus Scion squad, you'd need to field 1 MT Command squad first. Time for an edit, I think.


Same goes for your Armored Sentinel...

says 15 points.

not +15

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
You didn't read a single thing I wrote in that whole article did you? Scions are clearly an Elite choice.

I read exactly what you wrote. Here, let me spell it out for you:

"Militarum Tempestus Platoon:

Consists of 1 Militarum Command Squad, 1-3 Militarum Tempestus Scions. Each Platoon counts as a single Troops slot on the FOC.".

Yes you have put it in the Elites section, but with a wording like that you are only confusing your readers. The "consists of 1 Militarum Command Squad" also makes it appear that in order to field 1 Militarum Tepestus Scion squad, you'd need to field 1 MT Command squad first. Time for an edit, I think.


Same goes for your Armored Sentinel...

says 15 points.

not +15

See, you could have pointed that out instead of instead using questions that make it sound like you're just lazily fishing for information.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And fixed.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And fixed.

So is the Tempestus Command Squad still required for you to be able to field 1 Scion squad in the Elites section?

And 2), is the Armored sentinel +15 points over the old Armored Sentinel points cost or +15 points over the old Scout Sentinel points cost?

Because if it is the former, then it got hit with the nerf bat pretty hard.


And lastly, could you give some vague information about the fluff section? How many pages is it? And is it a copy-paste job of the old codex' fluff? And is the Bestiarum section (unit descriptions) also very much a copy-paste job?

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And fixed.

So is the Tempestus Command Squad still required for you to be able to field 1 Scion squad in the Elites section?

And 2), is the Armored sentinel +15 points over the old Armored Sentinel points cost or +15 points over the old Scout Sentinel points cost?

Because if it is the former, then it got hit with the nerf bat pretty hard.

Command squads are 0-1, scion squads are 1-3 in the platoon.

They got a price drop of 15.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And fixed.

So is the Tempestus Command Squad still required for you to be able to field 1 Scion squad in the Elites section?

No that was a mistake and is fixed (B&C caught that one actually). This is what happens when you rush kids.

 Sir Arun wrote:
[And 2), is the Armored sentinel +15 points over the old Armored Sentinel points cost or +15 points over the old Scout Sentinel points cost?

Because if it is the former, then it got hit with the nerf bat pretty hard.

I apologize, I forgot to double check before putting a sign in there. It went DOWN 15 points.

 Sir Arun wrote:
And lastly, could you give some vague information about the fluff section? How many pages is it? And is it a copy-paste job of the old codex' fluff? And is the Bestiarum section (unit descriptions) also very much a copy-paste job?

About 20 pages, with a decent bulk of images. Not counting the Bestiarum fluff that is. I don't have a good grasp on how much is a C&P job because that'd require me checking basically page by page. I never memorized the entire Guard codex (mostly because Cruddace's writing has a nasty habit of putting me to sleep).

Wait sentinels got more expensive? but everyone was fapping over them?

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Wait sentinels got more expensive? but everyone was fapping over them?

Scouts stayed the same, Armoured went down 15 points.

Updated 1st post. The good is starting to outweigh the bad, I might actually buy the codex now.

My only rage right now is with Harker, the PBS nerf, and the lack of improvement for Ogryns and Rough Riders.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Updated 1st post. The good is starting to outweigh the bad, I might actually buy the codex now.

My only rage right now is with Harker, the PBS nerf, and the lack of improvement for Ogryns and Rough Riders.

Ogryns can take priests.

S5 infantry rerolling hits and wounds is pretty scary.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Updated 1st post. The good is starting to outweigh the bad, I might actually buy the codex now.

My only rage right now is with Harker, the PBS nerf, and the lack of improvement for Ogryns and Rough Riders.

What's wrong with Harker? PBS got a slight survivability buff through Brotherhood of Psykers, and Ogryns got small synergy based buffs in that they can allow things like Priests to join with them, and aren't forced to not be able to ride in vehicles once they disembark.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Updated 1st post. The good is starting to outweigh the bad, I might actually buy the codex now.

My only rage right now is with Harker, the PBS nerf, and the lack of improvement for Ogryns and Rough Riders.

What's wrong with Harker? PBS got a slight survivability buff through Brotherhood of Psykers, and Ogryns got small synergy based buffs in that they can allow things like Priests to join with them, and aren't forced to not be able to ride in vehicles once they disembark.

Apparently Harker lost a bunch of special rules from the last edition. No idea what they were.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Updated 1st post. The good is starting to outweigh the bad, I might actually buy the codex now.

My only rage right now is with Harker, the PBS nerf, and the lack of improvement for Ogryns and Rough Riders.

What's wrong with Harker? PBS got a slight survivability buff through Brotherhood of Psykers, and Ogryns got small synergy based buffs in that they can allow things like Priests to join with them, and aren't forced to not be able to ride in vehicles once they disembark.

Apparently Harker lost a bunch of special rules from the last edition. No idea what they were.

Harker lost his Catachan Devils rule which gave the squad Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and I believe Stealth which could stack with the camo cloaks so you could get a 2-3+ cover save in the terrain. He also personally lost his FNP. The only "buff" he got was just flat out giving the whole squad relentless which is okay but not a fair tradeoff in losing all the buffs.

 Grimskul wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Updated 1st post. The good is starting to outweigh the bad, I might actually buy the codex now.

My only rage right now is with Harker, the PBS nerf, and the lack of improvement for Ogryns and Rough Riders.

What's wrong with Harker? PBS got a slight survivability buff through Brotherhood of Psykers, and Ogryns got small synergy based buffs in that they can allow things like Priests to join with them, and aren't forced to not be able to ride in vehicles once they disembark.

Apparently Harker lost a bunch of special rules from the last edition. No idea what they were.

Harker lost his Catachan Devils rule which gave the squad Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and I believe Stealth which could stack with the camo cloaks so you could get a 2-3+ cover save in the terrain. He also personally lost his FNP. The only "buff" he got was just flat out giving the whole squad relentless which is okay but not a fair tradeoff in losing all the buffs.

Oh wow, Harker got hosed. Did he receive a price decrease at least? I know he has a rending Heavy Bolter.

Harker costs the same and his statline is the same. His HB is Rendng now, but he doesn't give his squad Relentless, he just has it himself.

EDIT: Iron Hand Straken does give his squad relentless, but it uses up his Warlord Trait.

Noooooo, they took Harker's Devils rule. Bye infiltrating sniper vets. :(

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Updated 1st post. The good is starting to outweigh the bad, I might actually buy the codex now.

My only rage right now is with Harker, the PBS nerf, and the lack of improvement for Ogryns and Rough Riders.

What's wrong with Harker?

Harker was a pretty decent IC in the last codex, in that he allowed one of your Veteran squads to infiltrate, gave them move through cover, and also gave them stealth. The restriction was, that you could not upgrade them with the grenadiers doctrine. However, this meant that you could buy forward sentries upgrades and in the old codex, you would then end up with:


An infiltrated veteran unit usually in 2+ cover with defensive grenades to boot.

Now you could give them a Lascannon and 3 Plasmaguns and Harker's Heavy Bolter and see how the MEQ player would try to get rid of this dakka laden squad without using cover-ignoring weapons. It'd be damn hard.

Now that tactic is down the drain and Harker has... err.... exactly 0 uses.

CHENKOV'S GONE?! :(
BASTONNES GONE?! :(
SLY MARBO IS GONE?! :(
I personally haven't seen the new codex but what the OP said it seems to me (IMO) that GW have butchered everything that made the IG, IG.
The fluff was what made the Guardsmen truly amazing and unique in the WH40k universe; simple and ordinary men that are forced to charge against the monstrosities of the 40k universe and if their step faultered there was the Administratorium (I think that's how you spell it?) behind them to ruthlessly dish out pain and send them packing to another galaxy. And the very fact that icons such as the ruthless Chenkov and the giving and willing Bastonne that led these guard that made them SO UNIQUE have been culled from the new edition it makes me sad.
Plus imo some of the new models are meh. They missed the chance to create a truly unique new kit of Guardsmen that you could customize and do whatever the hell you felt like to them that combined so many of the legions of metal together which sucks tbh, because I really was hoping that would happen.
Plus taking out Marbo... IMA KILL THEM! He was my secret weapon and my last resort characters that has done nothing but serve me faithfully in my games (Especially when he butchered a Librarian in CC). To see him go makes me want to strangle them because he was such a unique and defined character within the Guardsmen.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

Makumba wrote:
...we technicly got divination casters , but with INQ can cast the same divination and have a higher Ld and cost less and can have nice upgrades like servo skulls or psycannons.

75 points for a ML 2 Primaris Psyker is more points-efficient than 55 points for a ML 1 Inquisitor, plus you are no longer limited to two rolls on the divination table.

Can't agree with that . the inq doesn't get shot , if he perils and gives servo skulls , I don't need to buy a commisar and a primaris psyker to get stubborn for my units. And this just pure buff monkey inq . no grenades , no psycannons , no terminator armor to tank wounds.

Makumba wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

Makumba wrote:
...we technicly got divination casters , but with INQ can cast the same divination and have a higher Ld and cost less and can have nice upgrades like servo skulls or psycannons.

75 points for a ML 2 Primaris Psyker is more points-efficient than 55 points for a ML 1 Inquisitor, plus you are no longer limited to two rolls on the divination table.

Can't agree with that . the inq doesn't get shot , if he perils and gives servo skulls , I don't need to buy a commisar and a primaris psyker to get stubborn for my units. And this just pure buff monkey inq . no grenades , no psycannons , no terminator armor to tank wounds.

Why not both?

I'm a guard player. That means keeping up the guard rules as they change over time. If I didn't get the new codex, I wouldn't be a guard player.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I'm a guard player. That means keeping up the guard rules as they change over time. If I didn't get the new codex, I wouldn't be a guard player.

Yeah we heard it when Ailaros said it and you quoted it several pages back

If you didn't get the new codex, you could still be a guard player... just not a guard player who plays with the latest rules. One doesn't preclude the other unless your opponents won't let you play with old rules.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

Makumba wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

Makumba wrote:
...we technicly got divination casters , but with INQ can cast the same divination and have a higher Ld and cost less and can have nice upgrades like servo skulls or psycannons.

75 points for a ML 2 Primaris Psyker is more points-efficient than 55 points for a ML 1 Inquisitor, plus you are no longer limited to two rolls on the divination table.

Can't agree with that . the inq doesn't get shot , if he perils and gives servo skulls , I don't need to buy a commisar and a primaris psyker to get stubborn for my units. And this just pure buff monkey inq . no grenades , no psycannons , no terminator armor to tank wounds.

Why not both?

because all the stuff I use went up in points so much that am thinking about making coteaz my warlord , because I have a 140pts void in my list and I still will have to drop a vet squad .