Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why is it nobody is shy about plopping a Warhound Titan, or a Chaos Titan or 3 Imperial Knight Titans but as soon as I bring a Revenant Titan nobody wants to play. They will glad play against me if i don't have a titan and will use their titans, but if I use my races Titan all games or off to me.

I have been playing Eldar since 4th edition. So I'm not a flavor of the month player. Is it just that everyone at my local gaming store is a wuss or do people in general just dont want to play against Eldar Titans? You'd think having a player with a Revenant would give them the opportunity to try and find a tactic to beat it?

No, it's ridiculous.

Just examine the revenants rules hombre and you'll see why. By the same token however it's a game and everyone should get to play with their toys! Just tell them they can proxy a appropriately sized reaver Titan and see what happens. I've never used a reaver or faced a revenant but I imagine it would be fun to see the two square off!

So am i doomed to fight titans with non titans? Because thats the only way i get to play games. I'm fighting titan after titan in each battle, and i dot get to use mine. Sometimes i beat a warhound if i get some lucky rolls and they dont regen enough shield per turn and a single knight i can deal with. but 3 knights (which i have already seen at my local store) is a stretch. Most of the time what kills the titans I have to face are my Crimson hunters only because the titans can't touch them.

Apparently most people think that a Revenant can kill a Reaver due to the phantom being able to dodge D-weaponry and at that point value I would be able to run both of my Revenant Titans (I have 2 old armorcast Revenants). There is actually a person who has a Reaver titan at my store. I don't see it very often though. But I dont have shields that can regenerate every turn and my titans are just as vulnerable to fliers as everyone elses. It isn't my fault that GW made my titan a really good one. Like I said I have been playing Eldar for quite some time and I have had these 2 Revenants since 5th.

Homebrew rules to even it out then. Str D --> Str 10 with reroll invuls or something.

Revenants auto win against far too many armies.

Eldar don't exactly have it rough this edition, you'll cope.

I can empathize with your situation but without knowing the mindset of your local gaming club, I can't comment too much. There should be some way to defeat you to be fair. Sometimes you can even picture people's fear/concerns.

lol D weapons = Str 10 weapons. If one does that may as well take 3 wraithknights. Get about the same number of wounds with 2 more shots of Str 10 AP2 instant death on 6's and you would save 180 points which in enough to take a crimson hunter exarch.

It isn't fair. It would be reasonable if they just said "no titans at all" and nobody used them, but it's completely absurd that people can take Warhounds but not Revenants when the Warhound is just as overpowered. It sounds like you're playing with a bunch of spoiled children who can't stand the thought of their ultimate unit being destroyed.

 Xerics wrote:
lol D weapons = Str 10 weapons. If one does that may as well take 3 wraithknights. Get about the same number of wounds with 2 more shots of Str 10 AP2 instant death on 6's and you would save 180 points which in enough to take a crimson hunter exarch.

You missed the entire point. Bravo.

 Xerics wrote:
lol D weapons = Str 10 weapons. If one does that may as well take 3 wraithknights. Get about the same number of wounds with 2 more shots of Str 10 AP2 instant death on 6's and you would save 180 points which in enough to take a crimson hunter exarch.

Yeah, it would defeat the purpose.

However, it would still be pseudo-balanced.

Str 10 AP 2 weapons don't auto-explode vehicles on a 2+

Str 10 AP 2 weapons don't inflict up to 12 wounds per hit.

Str 10 AP 2 weapons don't ignore cover.

Str 10 AP 2 weapons don't ignore invulns.

And yet, it is 4 Str 10 large blasts on a model that can move 36" PER TURN and be practically impervious to fire.

As is,

3 Wraithknights can't delete a 1000 point unit or two per turn.

A revenant titan will kill 2 wraith knights a turn, and if by some miracle the wraith knights even come into range they would strip off less than 2 HPS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
It isn't fair. It would be reasonable if they just said "no titans at all" and nobody used them, but it's completely absurd that people can take Warhounds but not Revenants when the Warhound is just as overpowered. It sounds like you're playing with a bunch of spoiled children who can't stand the thought of their ultimate unit being destroyed.

Warhounds are not nearly as powerful. Equivalent firepower on a much less durable and less mobile base.

12 wounds to a single model not a whole unit. The D weapons grant hits per model. Once the model is dead those wounds dont transfer. If you are smart you should be playing with your units spaced out.

And I aslo repeat myself here but fliers cant be the target of template weapons. Vendetta's with meltaguns would tear a hole through a Revenant if played right. If you can get enough gaunts spawned from tervigons on the field and manage to actually get into base contact with the titan there is that also. A Revenant that is tied up by 20-30 gaunts is a titan that isnt doing anything for quite some time because the stomp table is slowed and for some reason you can tie up a superheavy with even a conscript...

Vendettas can't take meltaguns.

ok Twin Linked Lascannons will work fine too. need a 3 to glance. at the point value of a revenant you are talking around 2000 points per side on average so you can easy double FOC and take 6 of them. might sound like your putting all your eggs in one basket but that what the Revenant is right? besides after they have disposed of the Revenant they can still do damage to everything else out there. The Vendetta can also carry troops who have meltaguns so just drop em off and melta away. Its still a 50% miss chance with the Eldar Titan Holo Fields but its better than crying.

Seems like nobody theorycrafts these days. Everyone just builds the armies that the tournament players use and since i havent seen escalation used in a tournament yet thats most likely why nobody actually owns the units required to tak eone down. Too busy buying what the tournament winners are using to see the whole picture and have units for evey occasion. I own an entire squad of every Eldar unit except for shining spears and in some cases multiple squads. Heck I even have 100 guardians and 40 storm guardians, banshees, scorpions, dark reapers.

We really need some theorycrafters out there instead of blaming the Eldar Players for wanting to field their Super-Heavy Walkers.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Warhounds are not nearly as powerful. Equivalent firepower on a much less durable and less mobile base.

They're also significantly cheaper in point cost. And they're only less durable against other D-weapons, against many conventional weapons AV 14 is better than AV 12 with a 50% chance to negate a hit.

And anyway, the point is that Revenants and Warhounds are in the same class. They're both blatantly overpowered army-destroyers that can easily ruin the game. If you insist on using your Warhound but banning the other guy's Revenant then you are TFG.

 Xerics wrote:
12 wounds to a single model not a whole unit. The D weapons grant hits per model. Once the model is dead those wounds dont transfer. If you are smart you should be playing with your units spaced out.

And I aslo repeat myself here but fliers cant be the target of template weapons. Vendetta's with meltaguns would tear a hole through a Revenant if played right. If you can get enough gaunts spawned from tervigons on the field and manage to actually get into base contact with the titan there is that also. A Revenant that is tied up by 20-30 gaunts is a titan that isnt doing anything for quite some time because the stomp table is slowed and for some reason you can tie up a superheavy with even a conscript...

I don't think you can do the latter. Since I believe the revenant is a vehicle and therefore can't be locked in combat. Also, you can't assault something that you can't hurt (excluding vehicles, but they can't be locked in combat so it's irrelevant).

Walkers, even super-heavy ones can be locked in combat, (but they get D3 stomps on top of their attack), but you are correct about assaulting something you can't hurt.

Revenant Titan and Dual Turbolaser Warhound are pretty much comparable. The main sticking point is that the Revenant was printed in the Escalation book, and the Warhound was not. A couple people at the FLGS insisted that because it was physically printed in the escalation book, Revenants were legal for Escalation, but the Warhound was not.

The revenant itself is not terrible. It just catches flak from how imbalanced the selection of superheavies in the escalation book was, and also how Destroyer weapons got beefed up and simplified even more, when many people wanted them toned down and more diverse.

Maybe offer to field the Revenant with Sonic Lances instead of Pulsars.

sonicaucie wrote:
I don't think you can do the latter. Since I believe the revenant is a vehicle and therefore can't be locked in combat. Also, you can't assault something that you can't hurt (excluding vehicles, but they can't be locked in combat so it's irrelevant).

Opposite way around, you can't assault vehicles you can't hurt, you can assault anything else regardless of of being able to hurt them.
Also, walkers can be locked in combat.

FW lists the warhound as a Escalation option as well. given FW is who you have to order the titans off of anyway, arguing against taking their word is kinda silly.

BrianDavion wrote:
FW lists the warhound as a Escalation option as well. given FW is who you have to order the titans off of anyway, arguing against taking their word is kinda silly.

Are you sure you want to start this?

If they aren't letting you play with your titan and insist they still get to bring theres, wow. That's... wow. I mean I don't even have words. I wouldn't want to play against either of them personally, but if someone brought their super big toy and I had a super big toy to run against it, I'd be more inclined.

Insist if you can't bring yours, they can't bring theres. It's only fair. You're either including Lords of War or you're not. Ban the entire slot, or don't ban it at all.

To be fair, ranged D weapons sort of make a mockery of everything on the board.

Offer to swap armies. They take the Revenant, you take the 3 Imp Knights.

What no one really addressed here is "what weapons is everyone using on their titans?".

If the Chaos/Imperial titans have D-weapons on then not playing the Revenant is being hypocritical IMO.

If they don't have D-weapons on then perhaps using the Revenant with Sonic Lances is a fair compromise.

Sonic Lances are horrible for a titan sized weapon. Its a really large flame template with STR 7. It takes out infantry very well but if you have to fight a mechanized army it becomes a very large point sink. Have to fight a bunch of Lemun Russ or a Landraider? Sonic Lance isn't going to cut it because I have to be behind it (which I admit is pretty damn easy with the movespeed) or i can glance it on a 6 from the front and a 5 on the side. I'd rather it have 2 Fire Prism like shots then a Sonic Lance due to how horrid they are. At least then i'd get a STR 9 Lance.

 Xerics wrote:
Why is it nobody is shy about plopping a Warhound Titan, or a Chaos Titan or 3 Imperial Knight Titans but as soon as I bring a Revenant Titan nobody wants to play. They will glad play against me if i don't have a titan and will use their titans, but if I use my races Titan all games or off to me.

I have been playing Eldar since 4th edition. So I'm not a flavor of the month player. Is it just that everyone at my local gaming store is a wuss or do people in general just dont want to play against Eldar Titans? You'd think having a player with a Revenant would give them the opportunity to try and find a tactic to beat it?

Because Revenants are so effective for their points cost. Warhounds don't have a 36" jump move and shields that can ignore most damage. Then again, they do have D weapons, which is still pretty terrible.

Are your opponents fielding D?

If you want to know what it's like to play with a Revenant then watch the following bat rep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53AGY_AE4ho

The chaos army gets utterly destroyed by the D weapons and the Bel'kor puppet masters the titan to destroy the entire Eldar army too. Buy a skyshield and a farseer to fortune it and it is basically invincible except vs D weapons and it out shoots everything else that has a D weapon.

If you want to play the unit but nobody (understandably) wants to play you then try to suggest a compromise on it's stats that both you and your opponent are happy with. I like the idea of D weapons being S10 AP2 reroll saves.

wtnind wrote:
If you want to know what it's like to play with a Revenant then watch the following bat rep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53AGY_AE4ho

The chaos army gets utterly destroyed by the D weapons and the Bel'kor puppet masters the titan to destroy the entire Eldar army too. Buy a skyshield and a farseer to fortune it and it is basically invincible except vs D weapons and it out shoots everything else that has a D weapon.

If you want to play the unit but nobody (understandably) wants to play you then try to suggest a compromise on it's stats that both you and your opponent are happy with. I like the idea of D weapons being S10 AP2 reroll saves.

Or just say no ranged D weapons. Both the Warhound and the Rev can take options that are not S D.

Sure the sonic lance isn't great against vehicles. That's why Eldar has fire dragons, lances and Distortion weapons.

I feel like everyone one here is missing the point
The question is not "Should I be able to take a rev titan vs a regular army?" Which is what everyone is adressing.
The thing is, what the OP asked was "should i be able to take titans vs other titans?" And those titans have d weapons also. This is completely different than what yall are talking about.
And i say yes, you should be able to