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Hello,
I recently bought myself the new plastic sternguard veteran box.
But before i assemble these great looking guys i would like to recieve some tactical counsels from experienced space marines players such as how to equip them best and how to use them besteht on the tabletop.
Thanks

I run an all pod army but even with that in mind, Sternguard are best in Drop Pods where they can apply their force very well. I run a 10x Man w/ 4 Combi Meltas and 2 Heavy Flamers in a Drop Pod. They combat squad with one 5x Man Squad having the meltas and blowing up a heavy tank OR destroying a transport. The other combat squad w/ 2 Heavy Flamers either kills hordes or kills the troops that were in the transport.

i have just bought a set of 5 and a drop pod for the SM army i am starting, 3 combi-meltas to begin with, if i expand the squad for bigger games i would do the same as feasible and up amount of combi-meltas and put in a HF.

First, Welcome to Dakka.

I take sternguard for the special ammo. The only thing worth removing that ammo for, IMHO, is the heavy flamer. You want a drop pod. In an ideal world, these guys will spend the entire game rapid firing into high priority targets.

You might want to consider diluting the kit with some tactical marines parts. Bolter fire needs numbers to work, even with special ammo. The sternguard kit is so full of bling, that even if one guy has normal legs, and another a basic torso, they are still all over the top. Just a tip to help stretch your hobby dollar (or franc/euro)

With the 6th edition changes to combi weapon pricing, I think it’s a mistake to go too heavy on them. Keeping a few around for emergencies can work though. A lot depends on what you are worried about, or other gaps in your list. A pair of c-meltas is good if you want to keep tanks at arm’s length.

Most of the time I drop them down next to something mean (often high toughness units) and pump it full of the wound on a 2+ ammo. They will also remove units from cover, or mess up MEQ. They really do everything. The one problem is that they are expensive, and die just like other marines. So either choose a safe target that’s not going to shoot back once you unload on it, or kill something worth more then you. Dropping next to greater demons first turn and killing them before they get buffs running is worth the sacrifice.

I personally run a squad of 9+HQ or 10 in a pod. One c-melta, one heavy flamer. On my list of things to build is at least one more of each. At most, I’d run 3 c-melta and 2xHFs. Anything else I’m figuring diminishing returns on my points invested.

Biggest question for me is all combis or 50% combis.

I like 5:5 melta:plasma if you live in an armor heavy world but the 2+ poison rounds make for a pretty good substitute for plasma against anything with a T value

I see them best as 10 Man Squad with only little options, perhaps 1 or 2 heavy flammers to keep hordes away, or some combi-melta's,
but i think the best thing about them is the flexibility due to their special amo, along with a rhino perhaps ?
To keep them from being killed to soon, and to block the shooting lines of some units after they have disembarked...
but the combi-weapons seem very expensive for only one shooting...

If I run a ten man squad it's the same as Feasable, 4x combi-melta and 2x Heavy Flamer, combat squad them, and bbq some infantry and pop a tank/walker the turn they show up.

If i'm not combat squadding, say cause they're going with pedro in a pod, then usually just two heavy flamers and I'll get my melt drops out of tac squads.

The combis only give you one turn of shooting, but oh what a turn it is! It might be expensive to give everyone a combi-plasma, but if you shoot them off all at once, you are almost guarantied to kill whatever you are shooting at. This philosophy was more widespread in the last codex, where the combi weapons were 5 points each, rather then 10. If you got the first shot in (almost assured with drop pods) there would be nobody left in your target to return fire. While this tactic can still work, the changes in point costs makes it inefficient.

If you plan on putting them in a rhino, rather then a drop pod, I’d go very light on the upgrades. If you aren’t able to dictate the opening round of fire, it’s harder for them to justify the large points expenditure in all the gear.

Wait, does the combi-weapon fire in the same turn as the bolter ?

Capitain Angelos wrote:
Wait, does the combi-weapon fire in the same turn as the bolter ?

No, you pick one or the other. The idea is you use the combis for your one good shot, and special ammo for the rest of the game.

Two interesting bits of mathhammer.

5 plasma vs 5 Hellfire bolters (rapid fire)
Riptide
Plasma = 2.95 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 0.92 unsaved wounds
Wraithknight
Plasma = 2.22 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 1.85 unsaved wounds

I'm not a fan of taking any combi-weapons. Sternguard really shine against infantry, and it's best not to complicate their role and turn them into a point sink. Heavy Flamers, on the other hand, are totally worth taking (unless you know you're only going to be facing MEQ). Giving them tons of wargear balloons the cost of the squad, and just makes them a more attractive target for enemy fire.

You might want to consider diluting the kit with some tactical marines parts. Bolter fire needs numbers to work, even with special ammo. The sternguard kit is so full of bling, that even if one guy has normal legs, and another a basic torso, they are still all over the top. Just a tip to help stretch your hobby dollar (or franc/euro)

This is good advice, the Sternguard kit is overpriced. Even with only half a model's worth of bling, no-one is going to confuse a sternguard with a regular marine. It's really worth taking Sternguards in groups of 10 - it's easier to get them all into position with one drop pod, and the sgt costs 10 more points than the rest of the veteran.

 minigun762 wrote:
Two interesting bits of mathhammer.

5 plasma vs 5 Hellfire bolters (rapid fire)
Riptide
Plasma = 2.95 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 0.92 unsaved wounds
Wraithknight
Plasma = 2.22 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 1.85 unsaved wounds

The issue is not the amount of carnage you can get with combis, but if it’s worth the points these days. For the price of those combis I could almost have a MM attack bike rolling around. For the cost of kitting out an entire squad, I could take a twin flamer assault squad in a pod of their own to drop next to the sternguard.

Do you want more boys? Or better toys? It’s a philosophical divide, with pros and cons on either side. I know I prefer to have more boots on the ground rather then fewer, more tricked out, ones. YMMV.

Ah, would have been to good to be true
So, a group of 10 with two heavy flamers in a drop pod is a very solid choice, right ?

 Nevelon wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Two interesting bits of mathhammer.

5 plasma vs 5 Hellfire bolters (rapid fire)
Riptide
Plasma = 2.95 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 0.92 unsaved wounds
Wraithknight
Plasma = 2.22 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 1.85 unsaved wounds

The issue is not the amount of carnage you can get with combis, but if it’s worth the points these days. For the price of those combis I could almost have a MM attack bike rolling around. For the cost of kitting out an entire squad, I could take a twin flamer assault squad in a pod of their own to drop next to the sternguard.

Do you want more boys? Or better toys? It’s a philosophical divide, with pros and cons on either side. I know I prefer to have more boots on the ground rather then fewer, more tricked out, ones. YMMV.

Agreed.
On paper, I really like the purity of naked SG but in meta that is filled with flyers and skimmers and now super heavy walkers, not bringing heavy AT weapons seems difficult.

Capitain Angelos wrote:
Ah, would have been to good to be true
So, a group of 10 with two heavy flamers in a drop pod is a very solid choice, right ?

Yes it would be.

One of the problems with sternguard (and marines in general) is that they can be equipped to do a lot of different things. The question of what you want them to do and what roles need to be filled in your list can make a lot of the options good at different times.

The drop pod/HF sternguard are a solid anti-infantry, horde thinning, monster hunting squad. You have the weight of fire to threaten pretty much everything, and the points are low enough that they should be able to make them back.

Combi Meltas are extremely helpful. I seriously recommend that you always take at the very least 3.

 minigun762 wrote:
Two interesting bits of mathhammer.

5 plasma vs 5 Hellfire bolters (rapid fire)
Riptide
Plasma = 2.95 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 0.92 unsaved wounds
Wraithknight
Plasma = 2.22 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 1.85 unsaved wounds

Just wondering, did you concider Gets Hot?

 DanielBeaver wrote:
I'm not a fan of taking any combi-weapons. Sternguard really shine against infantry, and it's best not to complicate their role and turn them into a point sink. Heavy Flamers, on the other hand, are totally worth taking (unless you know you're only going to be facing MEQ). Giving them tons of wargear balloons the cost of the squad, and just makes them a more attractive target for enemy fire.

You might want to consider diluting the kit with some tactical marines parts. Bolter fire needs numbers to work, even with special ammo. The sternguard kit is so full of bling, that even if one guy has normal legs, and another a basic torso, they are still all over the top. Just a tip to help stretch your hobby dollar (or franc/euro)

This is good advice, the Sternguard kit is overpriced. Even with only half a model's worth of bling, no-one is going to confuse a sternguard with a regular marine. It's really worth taking Sternguards in groups of 10 - it's easier to get them all into position with one drop pod, and the sgt costs 10 more points than the rest of the veteran.

Heavy flamers aren't worthless against MEQ, though. Not as good as Vengeance rounds so losing that kind of sucks, but it's hard to argue against S5 auto-hit weapons in general. The rest of the squad should be able to handle a sizable number of troops, so having the TAC insurance Heavy Flamers brings isn't bad.

Especially if you're Salamanders.

 soomemafia wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Two interesting bits of mathhammer.

5 plasma vs 5 Hellfire bolters (rapid fire)
Riptide
Plasma = 2.95 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 0.92 unsaved wounds
Wraithknight
Plasma = 2.22 unsaved wounds
Hellfire = 1.85 unsaved wounds

Just wondering, did you concider Gets Hot?

No, I was just comparing damage output to see how valuable combi plasma is.
Truth be told, it's still pretty valuable against 2+ saves and medium AV.

Combis are quite expensive now, considering they're 1-shot options, and the special ammo is almost as good.
What you take depends on your army's load-out. If you have lots of long ranged AV, go flamer.
So, I take a 2-5 in a 9-10 man squad, in a drop pod.
I say 9-man squad, as you can put a Librarian or other HQ in there with them.

Something you'll probably forget (despite the name) is that everyone in the squad is a vet, and has 2 attacks. It comes in handy if cc is expected.
If you do take combis, remember that some of them might be Assault, and better than a Bolt Pistol if you do have to assault.

There are lots of bits in that box of 5 models, and you get to bling-up some Tacticals for padding.

I think these guys might be better with no combis just riding a Rhino or Pod and using the special ammo. 22 pts vs 32 with a one shot special?

If you must have combis, 4-5 melta and combat squadding seems like a thing.

With the way 6th ed rolls, I'm hesistant to roll out 32pt T4 guys in power armor. I'm running marines more and more like Orks. Which makes me sad.

Personally, If I'm going to send a suicide squad in to something, I'd rather it be a Command Squad.

100pts for 5guys.

buy 5 meltaguns, 50pts.

Get them a drop pod.

Now you have 5 Meltaguns, not combi-meltas, in the enemy's backline, for 20pts cheaper than if they were of the Sternguard variety.

The cons, of course, is that they don't have Special Ammo, but on the other hand, who cares, 5 perma meltas.

Don't suicide veteran marines. You'll run out of guys before your opponent does almost every time.

Martel732 wrote:
Don't suicide veteran marines. You'll run out of guys before your opponent does almost every time.

Typically, if you are podding in 5 marines to explode a Land Raider or other Big Scary Tank*, they are going to die in response afterwards. Pretty much guaranteed. And Pod-Meltas are pretty much the only way for marines to reliably remove something that will give the rest of your army a bad day in one shot.

Unless, of course, your opponent is kind enough to park his Land Raider beside a spot you can hunker down in for a turn and weather the storm.

LRs give lists a bad day? I'm rarely in a rush to kill them.

Martel732 wrote:
LRs give lists a bad day? I'm rarely in a rush to kill them.

Still something a TAC list needs to have a counter for and since SM don't have a mobile MC, melta is very likely our #1 choice.

 Skinnereal wrote:
Combis are quite expensive now, considering they're 1-shot options, and the special ammo is almost as good.

That really depends on what Chapter Tactics you are using. If you were to take Combi-Meltas on a 5man squad with Vulkan He'Stan as an HQ the points spent on the Combis are completely worth it! Doing it this will yield Master Crafted Special Ammo shots because of Vulkan's "The Forgefather" special rule.

And before all the "it only applies to the Meltagun part" start coming in, "The Forgefather" special rule specifically states Combi-Melta in its list, Combi Weapons are described in the BRB as a single weapon with primary and secondary profile and Master-Crafted states that the weapon fired can reroll a single miss.

 minigun762 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
LRs give lists a bad day? I'm rarely in a rush to kill them.

Still something a TAC list needs to have a counter for and since SM don't have a mobile MC, melta is very likely our #1 choice.

Or just counter what comes out of the LRs, since the LRs themselves can largely be ignored due to poor dakka/pt.

Martel732 wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
LRs give lists a bad day? I'm rarely in a rush to kill them.

Still something a TAC list needs to have a counter for and since SM don't have a mobile MC, melta is very likely our #1 choice.

Or just counter what comes out of the LRs, since the LRs themselves can largely be ignored due to poor dakka/pt.

Interesting idea...
Focus on the LR's support and cargo and leave an empty hull with a few guns on it.