Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 minigun762 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
LRs give lists a bad day? I'm rarely in a rush to kill them.

Still something a TAC list needs to have a counter for and since SM don't have a mobile MC, melta is very likely our #1 choice.

Or just counter what comes out of the LRs, since the LRs themselves can largely be ignored due to poor dakka/pt.

Interesting idea...
Focus on the LR's support and cargo and leave an empty hull with a few guns on it.

Yeah, I have beat DW lists sometimes with 2 or 3 active LRs left for them. They have to get out sooner or later. Most players want to assault me, so I let them.

I'd only advise using suicide melts sternguard if there is something that REALLY needs to go boom asap. Like. A Leman Russ Executioner squadron or a baneblade etc. Its entirely possible to get rid of either in a single good round of post-drop shooting. I've done so several times. However if there is only a chaos predator, a fire prism or two or deffdreads let your dedicated tank killers handle them.

They.are also awesome for cutting down (non riptide) MCs. T8 wraithknight? T6 exocrine or hive guard? Drop pod a full 10 man squad and rapid fire as much 2+ poisoned rounds as you can. Remember, the unit doesn't necessarily have to make its points back to have contributed in a big way and the best oppurtunities for optimal strikes are usually very early or very late in game. That's why I love drop podded sternies. Then again, I run a really aggressive list that is anchored around a CM/Character/Command squad wrecking ball so the pods tend to sync with my playstyle.

I will also echi the earlier sentiments of "don't get carried away with the combi/special/heavy options". That's the beauty of sternguard though. Sometimes its necessary, and whenever it is they can handle it.

The poison rounds are amazingly good. They are good because they give the marines a single unit that has Eldar-like ability to generate wounds. Now imagine your whole list can do this.

The Lamenters army I just finished has a Sternguard squad in it.

10 man squad
2 Missile Launchers with flakk missiles
Sergeant with a power sword and a melta bomb

I can run them in a number of ways.
-Keep them all together and hold an objective or piece of terrain.
-Split them into combat squads, the Missile launchers hanging out to target fliers while the Sergeant and the remaining Marines reinforce a flank or act as a counter-assault unit

Getting rid of the special ammo bolters for MLs is a harsh way to go. Why not just use devs?

Martel732 wrote:
Getting rid of the special ammo bolters for MLs is a harsh way to go. Why not just use devs?

It wasn't an easy choice. But in the end I wanted the army to be able to function as a viable list in its own right or as a detachment. I've got two troops and an HQ but that left me with a single elite, fast attack, and heavy slot. So I went with missile launcher sternguard as my elites and a land raider as the heavy.

Martel732 wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
LRs give lists a bad day? I'm rarely in a rush to kill them.

Still something a TAC list needs to have a counter for and since SM don't have a mobile MC, melta is very likely our #1 choice.

Or just counter what comes out of the LRs, since the LRs themselves can largely be ignored due to poor dakka/pt.

Redeemers are a thing in my area, and just 'ignoring' a Redeemer when I'm in Power Armor isn't much of an option. Don't really want 5 Assault Terminators + a Chapter Master hitting my lines, either.


EDIT: I was also using Land Raiders as an example for Leman Russes, Monoliths, and any other AV14 vehicle. Hell, I'd love to take out a Manticore or a FMC out by dropping on them.

The way to neuter redeemers is to make them keep moving. But yeah, against power armor they are a thing. I wouldn't much care about the terminators and chapter master, though. They'll be gunned down the following turn. I personally think Redeemers suck out loud. But to each their own.

"Hitting lines" was a thing back when you could consolidate into a new CC. Now that that's been gone for two editions, the more expensive the CC unit, the bigger waste it usually is.

What about swapping to combi plasma instead?

Better synergy with Hellfire rounds and still a threat to light armor.

7 plasma shots against AV10 rear armor should average 3 HPs. 9 shots will do the same to AV11. That means 4-5 combis are a very real threat to light armor.

Yes, i think i will only take 4 combi-plasmas,
to keep the price from rising to high and to avoid attracting to much attention on them.
Thanks

Capitain Angelos wrote:
Yes, i think i will only take 4 combi-plasmas,
to keep the price from rising to high and to avoid attracting to much attention on them.
Thanks

Report back how they worked for you, I'd be curious to hear.

Weel you could all magentize the special weapons and a few bolters.

I always take one heavy flamer... That plus the ignore cover rounds are xenos' worst enemy.

Why even bother with Sternguard for suicides when you can just buy a unit of LOTD and have someone that deep strikes (with rerollable scatter) in with actual melta weapons, is cheaper, and slightly more durable. Oh and ignores cover saves and frees up a FOC. The ignores cover is a huge thing.

Hollismason wrote:
Why even bother with Sternguard for suicides when you can just buy a unit of LOTD and have someone that deep strikes (with rerollable scatter) in with actual melta weapons, is cheaper, and slightly more durable. Oh and ignores cover saves and frees up a FOC. The ignores cover is a huge thing.

The use of a drop pod ensures they land first turn. Generally the thing that is so nasty that you are willing to throw away the lives of the cream of the chapter to kill needs to die on turn one.

Sometimes it’s a transport, and you want to strand it’s cargo in the backfield.

Other times, a psyker, who needs to die before they start casting buffs.

Or just sometime with ginormus guns you just don’t want fired at the boys on your side of the table.

As for “why sternguard”? Not everything takes melta to kill. Sometimes a key unit needs to be filled with special ammo. Sternguard deliver.

I like sternguard as heavy flamer/lysander delivery system.

Ran a unit of 8 with lysander in a pod with two heavy flamers. I liked it because he was great for eating interceptor.

However in the future I think I will run a unit of 10 that I combat squad before each game. The one in the pod will be 2-3 combi weapons and the one on the table will have two ranged heavy weapons. Depending on if I am running sternguard heavy with pedro or not.

 Leth wrote:
I like sternguard as heavy flamer/lysander delivery system.

Ran a unit of 8 with lysander in a pod with two heavy flamers. I liked it because he was great for eating interceptor.

However in the future I think I will run a unit of 10 that I combat squad before each game. The one in the pod will be 2-3 combi weapons and the one on the table will have two ranged heavy weapons. Depending on if I am running sternguard heavy with pedro or not.

Unless you are running out of FOC space, I just don’t see the faux-Dev sternguard being efficient in this edition. In the last codex they got heavy weapons for peanuts, could fit two in a squad, and devs were massively overpriced. The pricing situation these days has shifted a lot.

Maybe 5 sternguard with a pair of HBs, as the special ammo has some synergy with the HBs. But only if you are long on fluff, and running a fists list for bolter drill. You’d pay less points for a dev squad with 4 heavies.

With Kantor I’m not sure the fact that they are a scoring unit is worth it. And that’s the only thing that could make this viable.

What about generic HQ's in pods? is a captain in terminator armor with primarch's wrath a good generic hq with the sternguard? or how about one with a combi-grav?

 Nevelon wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I like sternguard as heavy flamer/lysander delivery system.

Ran a unit of 8 with lysander in a pod with two heavy flamers. I liked it because he was great for eating interceptor.

However in the future I think I will run a unit of 10 that I combat squad before each game. The one in the pod will be 2-3 combi weapons and the one on the table will have two ranged heavy weapons. Depending on if I am running sternguard heavy with pedro or not.

Unless you are running out of FOC space, I just don’t see the faux-Dev sternguard being efficient in this edition. In the last codex they got heavy weapons for peanuts, could fit two in a squad, and devs were massively overpriced. The pricing situation these days has shifted a lot.

Maybe 5 sternguard with a pair of HBs, as the special ammo has some synergy with the HBs. But only if you are long on fluff, and running a fists list for bolter drill. You’d pay less points for a dev squad with 4 heavies.

With Kantor I’m not sure the fact that they are a scoring unit is worth it. And that’s the only thing that could make this viable.

That is why I would only consider that config if I was running them as troops. The combined ranged and drop pods that are scoring with a slightly higher ranged damage per point since I get two heavy weapons compared to tacticals might be something. Have not tried it yet this edition but I would be interested to see if it works.

My personal preference at the moment is a full squad of ten (in a pod) with 4x combi-melta and 2x combi-flamer.

Covers all bases, and generally will combat squad into melta and flamer bits, before the special ammo comes out.

I am really biased on the drop pod sternguard because I face trip intercept riptide and so if they dont have someone tanking for them they just die. However against other armies they are much more efficient. Or you have to have an army where they are unlikely to intercept.

I see that it's often not worth it to take full combi weapons but is it worth it to consider 0 combis?

Just pure special ammo?

 minigun762 wrote:
I see that it's often not worth it to take full combi weapons but is it worth it to consider 0 combis?

Just pure special ammo?

Certainly. Need a full squad though.

Wouldn't it just be easier to take those tyrannic war vets then? don't they just have hellfire rounds?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Wouldn't it just be easier to take those tyrannic war vets then? don't they just have hellfire rounds?

A few reasons:
Not everyone plays Ultramarines
Not everyone shelled out the cash for the dataslate
TWVs are very focused, and have next to no options.
There is more to life then hellfire rounds. Although I’ll admit they are the ones leaving the barrel 4/5s of the time.

Good points, just wondering about it.

 Nevelon wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I see that it's often not worth it to take full combi weapons but is it worth it to consider 0 combis?

Just pure special ammo?

Certainly. Need a full squad though.

Certainly, I think 8 is bare minimum since a squad like this relies on weight of numbers, especially with Hellfire rounds, to stack up those wounds.

I have been running a khan list, and it is amazing how much a 6 inch scout move adds to the useability of some units, like grav centurions.

It would be interesting to see how ravenguard sternguard or khan sternguard would work with a 12 inch scout, 6 inch move, and a 6 inch deploy. Considering 12 across the table to start that puts them about 36 across the table with 12 inch double tap range. Factor in stealth on the first turn, and a few other rhinos scouting up. Even tactical marines are a serious threat when there are 30-40 of them in your deployment zone first turn.

Ehhh. With Khan you need to be on a bike or dedicated transport to benefit from the scout move. ..

If you are running your sternguard on foot they are going to own a transport anyway.

It also does not require they are in the transport, just that they bought one.