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http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-reverses-decision-that-tossed-out-michigans-ban-on-racial-preferences/2014/04/22/44177ad6-9d8f-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html
The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michigan’s ban on the use of racial preferences in university admissions, a decision that might encourage other states to adopt similar prohibitions.

By a vote of 6 to 2, the court concluded that it was not up to judges to overturn the decision by Michigan voters to disallow consideration of race when deciding who gets into the state’s universities. California, Florida and the state of Washington have similar prohibitions.

Read the court's decision


Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action
The Supreme Court says in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their constitution to prohibit public universities from considering race in admissions decisions
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Supreme Court continues to scrutinize affirmative action
Supreme Court continues to scrutinize affirmative action
Robert Barnes OCT 13, 2013
Case asks justices whether Michigan’s ban on preferences can violate guarantee of equal protection.
Supreme Court remands Texas affirmative action plan
Supreme Court remands Texas affirmative action plan
Robert Barnes JUN 24, 2013
Decision is likely to spawn more challenges of race-based admissions, but keeps them alive.
“This case is not about how the debate about racial preferences should be resolved. It is about who may resolve it,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote in the court’s controlling opinion.

“There is no authority in the Constitution of the United States or in this court’s precedents for the judiciary to set aside Michigan laws that commit this policy determination to the voters.”

Kennedy was joined by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas agreed with the outcome, but would have gone further to prohibit racial preferences.

Justice Stephen G. Breyer also agreed with the judgment, abandoning the liberal wing of the court.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor dissented, joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Justice Elena Kagan did not take part in the decision.

Sotomayor, for the first time in her tenure on the court, noted how strongly she disagreed with the decision by reading her dissent from the bench.

“Today’s decision eviscerates an important strand of our equal protection jurisprudence,” wrote Sotomayor in her 58-page dissenting opinion. “For members of historically marginalized groups, which rely on the federal courts to protect their constitutional rights, the decision can hardly bolster hope for a vision of democracy that preserves for all the right to participate meaningfully and equally in self-government.”

An appeals court had said that a Michigan constitutional amendment banning the use of racial preferences in university admissions, approved by 58 percent of the state’s voters in 2006, had restructured the political process in a way that unfairly targeted minorities.

The Supreme Court decision to uphold the ban was not surprising. At oral arguments, a majority of the justices had been skeptical of the appeals court’s rationale and questioned how requiring the admission process to be color-blind could violate the constitution’s guarantee of equal protection.

Kennedy said the court’s decisions that allow race to be used in limited ways in admission decisions did not dictate that it must be used.

Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette praised the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn the appeals court ruling.

“The U.S. Supreme Court made the right call today,” Schuette said. “Our state constitution requires equal treatment in college admissions, because it is fundamentally wrong to treat people differently based on the color of their skin. A majority of Michigan voters embraced the ideal of equal treatment in 2006, and today their decision was affirmed.”

In a sense, the decision does not change what states are allowed to do, and even many conservative states--Texas, for instance--have been adamant that they be allowed to consider race in order to achieve diverse student bodies.

But the court’s decision could encourage opponents of affirmative action to press for action, using the decision as an impetus.

“The Supreme Court has given voters the green light to eliminate the use of racial preferences in college admissions, which is discouraging for racial diversity,” said Richard D. Kahlenberg, a scholar at the Century Foundation who has advocated for economic diversity in admission decisions.

“The good news, however, is that there are alternative ways to achieve diversity that can also deal with economic inequalities.”

At issue at the Supreme Court was language that says state colleges and universities “shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin.”

The amendment was approved by voters after the Supreme Court, in another case from Michigan, in 2003 allowed the limited use of race as part of an “individualized, holistic review of each applicant’s file.”

But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit, which narrowly tossed out the Michigan amendment, ruled that there was a difference between not using affirmative action and banning it in the state constitution. The latter violates the principle that minorities must be allowed to fully participate in creating laws and that “the majority may not manipulate the channels of change so as to place unique burdens on issues of importance to them,” Judge R. Guy Cole Jr. wrote.

His comparison was that while residents of Michigan’s Upper Peninsula may lobby decision-makers to grant preferences to their underrepresented students, minority groups would now have to change the constitution before even having a chance to advocate racial considerations because of the amendment.

The case is Schuette v. Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action. Kagan gave no reason for her recusal, as is customary, but it was likely because she had worked on the issue while previously serving as the Obama administration’s solicitor general.

Last term, in a case challenging the University of Texas’s use of race in making some admission decisions, the court declined to revise its holding in a previous case. The justices sent the case back to a lower court for a closer look at whether the university had used all the tools at its disposal to increase racial diversity before resorting to considering race in admissions.

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Good.

I've been following this case for quite some time...

I'm trying to figure out how is it that banning discrimination can be deemed discriminatory? o.O

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Toledo, OH

It's the correct ruling. Affirmative action (or any similar program) is only barely legal under equal protection anyway, so a State doing away with it shoudn't be a major problem.

Plus, its good to see the downtrodden white person get a break for once, am I right?
   
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“shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin.”



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 whembly wrote:
Good.

I've been following this case for quite some time...

I'm trying to figure out how is it that banning discrimination can be deemed discriminatory? o.O


Yeah... these kind of laws are really pants on head... they dont improve anything, and actually serve to set back the people they intent to put ahead, as now even people who got into schools based on grades have to deal with the "diversity hire" stigma that they are there based on skin colour as opposed to personal talent.

But of course, some idiot will start spewing off about how people who think as you and I do are just white privilaged mysogynists who are too busy clubbing baby seals in between driving our hot orange chargers around town while drinking TNT beer and shooting guns out the sun roof.

Because people like that just cannot understand the complexities of how its racist for one group to be granted some extra privilidge through law, and totally not racist for another group to be granted the same extra privilidge through law.

 
   
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 Polonius wrote:
Plus, its good to see the downtrodden white person get a break for once, am I right?


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Toledo, OH

Affirmative action isn't the fight worth having for the progressive movement. It's well meaning, and probably did some good, but it's always been philosophically... rickety.

The opposition to it has its own problems, but it's hard to argue with racial preferences by an ostensibly* color blind government.

*What's mystifying, of course, is all of the selfless crusaders against the racist tyranny of affirmative action are so frequently silent about the huge differences in how races do in the legal system. Maybe now that this is done, they will move on to that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/22 21:25:15


 
   
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Good. Affirmative action is founded on the racist belief that black people are interchangeable - that you can counteract discrimination against Alan by discriminating in favour of Bob. The sooner we are rid of it, the better.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis 
   
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 AlexHolker wrote:
Good. Affirmative action is founded on the racist belief that black people are interchangeable


That isn't even close to being accurate. There are issues with Affirmative Action to be sure, so just making up bs like this isn't necessary.

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That crap applied in the combat zone to. Affirmative Action in handing out construction contracts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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Sotamayor is mad
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sotomayor-accuses-colleagues-of-trying-to-wish-away-racial-inequality/2014/04/22/e5892f90-ca49-11e3-93eb-6c0037dde2ad_story.html

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sotamayor is mad


True story - my mom went to Spellman with her.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!


That's quite a legalistic furball there...

o.O

Horrible dissent.

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sotamayor is mad

Proof that it's a good ruling, then.
   
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Toledo, OH



Well, this is a touchy issue for her in particular, and I think legal minded progressives in general.

There's no real legal support for her dissent, and plenty of legal support for the majority. The problem she has is that the majority isn't relying simply on the law, they are basically declaring an end to any attempt to redress racial inequality. From any sort of practical, realistic view point, arguing that affirmative action hurts racial inequality is bunk.

But its part of a larger trend in the current discource. Liberals have painted conservatives into a corner, by pointing out how nearly all of their issues hurt, directly or indirectly, disadvantaged minorites. While true, it's asinine to assume racism is behind all of American conservatism. It's a gun that liberals wave around way too much.

The problem is that the defense conservatives have developed is to simply refuse to acknowledge any racism after about 1972. Conservatives are obsessed with racism, but only to the extent that they dont' want to be accused of it.

So we have two factions basically talking past each other. In the past, it didn't matter, because racial politics weren't highly correlated to party or even ideology (althgouh highly to geography). Now, a racial progressive is almost always a democrat, and vice versa.
   
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The Great State of Texas



Excellent. Then its a good decision.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's no real legal support for her dissent, and plenty of legal support for the majority. The problem she has is that the majority isn't relying simply on the law, they are basically declaring an end to any attempt to redress racial inequality. From any sort of practical, realistic view point, arguing that affirmative action hurts racial inequality is bunk.


The problem of course is that AA doesn't do that. What it does do is reinforce inequality by creating a racial spoils system.

You want to help equality and "minorities?" Help poor people. You want to help poor people? Give them a good education.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/23 15:44:02


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Polonius wrote:


Well, this is a touchy issue for her in particular, and I think legal minded progressives in general.

There's no real legal support for her dissent, and plenty of legal support for the majority. The problem she has is that the majority isn't relying simply on the law, they are basically declaring an end to any attempt to redress racial inequality. From any sort of practical, realistic view point, arguing that affirmative action hurts racial inequality is bunk.

But its part of a larger trend in the current discource. Liberals have painted conservatives into a corner, by pointing out how nearly all of their issues hurt, directly or indirectly, disadvantaged minorites. While true, it's asinine to assume racism is behind all of American conservatism. It's a gun that liberals wave around way too much.

The problem is that the defense conservatives have developed is to simply refuse to acknowledge any racism after about 1972. Conservatives are obsessed with racism, but only to the extent that they dont' want to be accused of it.

So we have two factions basically talking past each other. In the past, it didn't matter, because racial politics weren't highly correlated to party or even ideology (althgouh highly to geography). Now, a racial progressive is almost always a democrat, and vice versa.

Eh... I think the public is getting to the point that we are increasingly tired of being compartmentalized into "race categories".

We are Americans. The sooner we realize that... the current racial tensions would dissipate.

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I know im getting tired of being told I only got so far because im a white male

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Leerstetten, Germany

Conservatives should shift focus from helping minorities get into college to helping people pay for college based on need.

   
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USA

We are Americans. The sooner we realize that... the current racial tensions would dissipate.


If race issues were just about 'feels' yeah maybe, but they're not. Race is class stratified in the US. Blacks and Hispanics are poorer than their white counterparts overall, and you can just make that go away by fixing education or with a better welfare system (both of which are often blocked by a lot of the same people who argue race isn't an issue anymore).

So long as that race divide exists, racism won't cease to be an issue. No one can honestly look at how much poorer blacks are, how much more frequently they go to jail, and how much more frequently they are killed, and say race doesn't matter in American society because we're all Americans. That's nonsensical. It's an argument and world view born from old racism and pushed by people who haven't given it any thought.

And that's not even touching Native Americans, who we still have walled off in their own micro-nations where we patently ignore rampant third world-esque living conditions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/23 16:09:53


   
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Australia

 Polonius wrote:
From any sort of practical, realistic view point, arguing that affirmative action hurts racial inequality is bunk.

Tell that to a Chinese-American who must get an SAT score 450 points higher than his African-American classmate if he wants the same opportunities to go to college. How is telling him that he needs an SAT score of 1550 and not 1100 to get in, purely because he is of Chinese descent and not of African descent, not racist?

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis 
   
Made in us
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Leerstetten, Germany

 AlexHolker wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
From any sort of practical, realistic view point, arguing that affirmative action hurts racial inequality is bunk.

Tell that to a Chinese-American who must get an SAT score 450 points higher than his African-American classmate if he wants the same opportunities to go to college. How is telling him that he needs an SAT score of 1550 and not 1100 to get in, purely because he is of Chinese descent and not of African descent, not racist?


That post is filled with so much stereotyping that is becomes a parody of the whole thread...
   
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The Great State of Texas

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I know im getting tired of being told I only got so far because im a white male


Wait you're not a pastel purple bronie?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 d-usa wrote:
Conservatives should shift focus from helping minorities get into college to helping people pay for college based on need.


Exactly. In addition, liberals need to shift their perception from social justice to... just that... helping people pay for college based on need.

EDITed for spelling...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/23 16:21:28


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The Great State of Texas

 d-usa wrote:
 AlexHolker wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
From any sort of practical, realistic view point, arguing that affirmative action hurts racial inequality is bunk.

Tell that to a Chinese-American who must get an SAT score 450 points higher than his African-American classmate if he wants the same opportunities to go to college. How is telling him that he needs an SAT score of 1550 and not 1100 to get in, purely because he is of Chinese descent and not of African descent, not racist?


That post is filled with so much stereotyping that is becomes a parody of the whole thread...


Thats reality in California.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
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 Frazzled wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I know im getting tired of being told I only got so far because im a white male


Wait you're not a pastel purple bronie?

No, I tried the species reassignment surgery, but apparently Tijuana surgeons are not trustworthy. I miss my kidneys.

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Leerstetten, Germany

Plus financial aid can pick up where the pretend belief that everybody is equal and has the same opportunities forces us to stop.
   
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 Frazzled wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
 AlexHolker wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
From any sort of practical, realistic view point, arguing that affirmative action hurts racial inequality is bunk.

Tell that to a Chinese-American who must get an SAT score 450 points higher than his African-American classmate if he wants the same opportunities to go to college. How is telling him that he needs an SAT score of 1550 and not 1100 to get in, purely because he is of Chinese descent and not of African descent, not racist?


That post is filled with so much stereotyping that is becomes a parody of the whole thread...


Thats reality in California.

*Puts a finger up in dissent*......Yeah it actually is true.

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The Great State of Texas

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I know im getting tired of being told I only got so far because im a white male


Wait you're not a pastel purple bronie?

No, I tried the species reassignment surgery, but apparently Tijuana surgeons are not trustworthy. I miss my kidneys.


Don't we all.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 AlexHolker wrote:
Tell that to a Chinese-American who must get an SAT score 450 points higher than his African-American classmate if he wants the same opportunities to go to college. How is telling him that he needs an SAT score of 1550 and not 1100 to get in, purely because he is of Chinese descent and not of African descent, not racist?

That's easy. It's not racist because Asian-Americans aren't as large a voting bloc as African-Americans, and nowhere near as monolithic.
   
 
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