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Hey guys, Im a new Imperial guard player and am just about to get started to get vehicle models, looking forward to making my first Chimera!! I found that basecoating with the standard model paint (in my experience of making a scout sentinel, picts on my profile) that well, doing the black basecoat took forever and was uneven in some areas. I saw in my store (I don't go there much, except to buy stuff because I don't plan on getting started playing yet as I am doing exams) that there is the GW "Chaos Black Spraypaint", and was wondering if this was a worthwhile buy. And no I don't want to get an airbrush instead....

Thanks guys!!!

Yes. A thousand times yes. I ran out so I did a single vehicle with regular black paint, and painting has become hell.

Yes, primers are always better than brush ons, especially for vehicles. GW Chaos Black is a great primer, but it is also very expensive. I will suggest you first try it out. Later in your hobby life switch to less expensive primers such as army primer, by then your painting skills such be high enough to overcome the slightly poorer quality of amry painter primers.

I would get it. For it's cost it's a very fine primer for plastic models.

Though really, I would get an airbrush if I was doing a lot of IG vehicles.

Its good stuff, but its expensive.

Is it really a primer though? Or just black spraypaint. There are numerous alternatives out there which are equally good if not better and most often cheaper.

NO.

Buy spray primer, sure. You can find lots of them that are just as good (or even better) in a hardware store. There's also the issue that it may not be primer, just spraypaint. Primer helps later paint layers to stick on the model. Spraypaint doesn't, and sometimes hinder it if it's too glossy.

Chaos Black spraypaint is not worth it. I repeat, not worth it. Buy something cheaper and better.

 heartserenade wrote:


Chaos Black spraypaint is not worth it. I repeat, not worth it. Buy something cheaper and better.

Isn't this too subjective? It may not be worth it to you, but that's relative to your financial situation. If we took ten brands of spray primer into a blind test, I would not be surprised if the GW primer turned out to be number 1 or 2. I pretty much avoid buying anything at GW because the pricing is obnoxious, but they do make an excellent primer for their products.

 heartserenade wrote:
NO.

Buy spray primer, sure. You can find lots of them that are just as good (or even better) in a hardware store. There's also the issue that it may not be primer, just spraypaint. Primer helps later paint layers to stick on the model. Spraypaint doesn't, and sometimes hinder it if it's too glossy.

Chaos Black spraypaint is not worth it. I repeat, not worth it. Buy something cheaper and better.

I disagree. Gw's chaos black primer is specifically formulated for priming miniatures. It contains adhesion promoters and has a huge amount of shrinkage. Meaning you can spray on heavily and it will "shrink" back into the fine detail.

I would never buy the stuff. It seems to work well, but there are myriad other products that also work well, are easy to get, and cost a fraction of the price. If you get it, I wouldn't expect you to be disappointed by the results - most who have gripes about the product base them on value, not quality.

tomcat31 wrote:

 heartserenade wrote:
NO.

Buy spray primer, sure. You can find lots of them that are just as good (or even better) in a hardware store. There's also the issue that it may not be primer, just spraypaint. Primer helps later paint layers to stick on the model. Spraypaint doesn't, and sometimes hinder it if it's too glossy.

Chaos Black spraypaint is not worth it. I repeat, not worth it. Buy something cheaper and better.

I disagree. Gw's chaos black primer is specifically formulated for priming miniatures. It contains adhesion promoters and has a huge amount of shrinkage. Meaning you can spray on heavily and it will "shrink" back into the fine detail.

I have to agree with this.

Rustoleum and Krylon Ultra-flat Camoflauge paints. Best black primer!

Games workshop is a master at taking items found for cheap at your local hardware store, slapping a new label on them and then charging three times as much.

There is no reason to buy GW greenstuff, non-plastic-glue-superglue, or spray-on undercoat, when you can just go to the store and get kneadatite, cyanoacrilate adhesive and spray primer, which are the exact same things, just cheaper.

If you want to pay several bucks for the GW logo on your primer, then knock yourself out, but you're not really getting a different product. The only time I buy GW hobby supplies myself is with brushes, because despite several trips to the art store, I oddly can't find brushes that stack up against the GW ones I bought years ago and are still going strong.

I've never heard any positive first-hand experiences with the GW sprays. I'd recommend Vallejo's paint-on primer or Testors, honestly.

GW's black spray is NOT primer. Not now, not ever. It is simply black spray paint. It has NOT been specifically formulated for miniatures in any way. It is black spray paint. It has no additional adhesion or shrinking properties, it is black spray paint. As a matter of fact, Krylon used to be their supplier, back when their quality control was decent.

It is overpriced black spray paint. If you want something of equal quality the Home Depot brand .99 cent Quik Color spray paint is nearly the same.

For my two cents, Krylon primers are the way to go. Rustoleum isn't bad, but goes on a little thicker. Both are much cheaper and actual primers, not...black spray paint.

I have used GW black spray and I really liked it! I use Krylon grey spray primer only because the black was slightly too dark to paint over if I wanted nice bright colors. I have transported many of the models "primed" in chaos black and have had no chipping or wearing of the paint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either way no matter what you use, make sure its not too humid before priming! I have some interesting textures on some of my models

 Todosi wrote:
GW's black spray is NOT primer. Not now, not ever. It is simply black spray paint. It has NOT been specifically formulated for miniatures in any way. It is black spray paint. It has no additional adhesion or shrinking properties, it is black spray paint. As a matter of fact, Krylon used to be their supplier, back when their quality control was decent.

It is overpriced black spray paint. If you want something of equal quality the Home Depot brand .99 cent Quik Color spray paint is nearly the same.

For my two cents, Krylon primers are the way to go. Rustoleum isn't bad, but goes on a little thicker. Both are much cheaper and actual primers, not...black spray paint.

Good advice, but might not apply to the OP? OP's tag lists Hong Kong. and having lived in Hong Kong for the better part of my life I can say wargaming miniture products are hard to come by. I can assure you there is no Home Depot brand or Quik Color or Kyrlon readily avaliable.

There is the Mr. Colour gray primers and Tamyia brands. But having used those for the gundam models where it's main use is for air sprays I still think GW's Chaos Black is the better alternative for a novice painter for warhammer models. Once your experience with painting improves then start considering other alternatives.

 AesSedai wrote:

Isn't this too subjective? It may not be worth it to you, but that's relative to your financial situation. If we took ten brands of spray primer into a blind test, I would not be surprised if the GW primer turned out to be number 1 or 2. I pretty much avoid buying anything at GW because the pricing is obnoxious, but they do make an excellent primer for their products.

If you have two things doing the same thing, and one of them is cheaper: which is the better one to buy regardless of your financial situation? Let's say their primer is indeed excellent... well so are the other brands. Even if you are rich as Gates, it's foolish to buy something triple the price when you can get it for cheaper for the same quality.

tomcat31 wrote:I disagree. Gw's chaos black primer is specifically formulated for priming miniatures. It contains adhesion promoters and has a huge amount of shrinkage. Meaning you can spray on heavily and it will "shrink" back into the fine detail.

And yet we get people who say things like this:

If you want to pay several bucks for the GW logo on your primer, then knock yourself out, but you're not really getting a different product.

I've never heard any positive first-hand experiences with the GW sprays. I'd recommend Vallejo's paint-on primer or Testors, honestly.

GW's black spray is NOT primer. Not now, not ever. It is simply black spray paint. It has NOT been specifically formulated for miniatures in any way. It is black spray paint. It has no additional adhesion or shrinking properties, it is black spray paint. As a matter of fact, Krylon used to be their supplier, back when their quality control was decent.

It is overpriced black spray paint. If you want something of equal quality the Home Depot brand .99 cent Quik Color spray paint is nearly the same.

For my two cents, Krylon primers are the way to go. Rustoleum isn't bad, but goes on a little thicker. Both are much cheaper and actual primers, not...black spray paint.

At best, it's on par with something cheaper. At worst... it's not "specifically formulated for priming miniatures". So why risk buying something that is more expensive and has questionable quality?

I've been in Dakka for a lot of years now, and I've seen the same question pop up. Use the search function to search for those threads and the same issues pop up.

Again, if you can get something cheaper, performs the same (or even better), and you're 100% IS primer... why would you recommend Chaos Black spraypaint?

Wal Mart sells flat black spray for less than a dollar. GW sprays are a complete rip-off.

GW sprays are one of the things I believe are there better products, they go on smoothly, give a solid colour and help reduce chipping on metal models. They are really good.

Wow, love the community, never thought I would get so many replies, all things considered I DO live in HK and there is basically no hardware stores around that do anything on the scale of Home Depot. And there is only ONE WH40K and GW product store in basically the entire country, so I guess I'll stick the the black spray. Thanks guys

Again I have used the GW black and as long as its not too hot or humid the results were very much worth the 15 bucks I spent on the can, my painting appeared to be much better + I use alot of black for my orks so it was a win win

 heartserenade wrote:
NO.

Buy spray primer, sure. You can find lots of them that are just as good (or even better) in a hardware store. There's also the issue that it may not be primer, just spraypaint. Primer helps later paint layers to stick on the model. Spraypaint doesn't, and sometimes hinder it if it's too glossy.

Chaos Black spraypaint is not worth it. I repeat, not worth it. Buy something cheaper and better.

From some one who does professional graffiti id say GW spray paint is of a high quality as a primer it has minimal bleed, good tooth and a fast dry time. It is over priced and you can get comparative paint for £5 but it can be almost impossible to tell a paints quality's until tested.
I use to use this £1.50 car primer, it would have been terrible for purpose but it was excellent model primer, black was a little off but the white was great and the price made up for it. The shop I got it from changed brand to a paint that is £2.50 and would make excellent car primer the shop is after all a car shop so good for them, its amazing quality for the price but it sucks for models. if unsure id buy GW or army painter you know what your getting, no point going to a car or dyi or model shop and spending £5 on a can that might be as good. Either risk it for a £1-2 pound can or buy something good.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Wal Mart sells flat black spray for less than a dollar. GW sprays are a complete rip-off.

I think you forgot that this guy lives in Hong Kong, where there are no walmarts to buy this black spray from.

 Todosi wrote:
GW's black spray is NOT primer. Not now, not ever. It is simply black spray paint. It has NOT been specifically formulated for miniatures in any way. It is black spray paint. It has no additional adhesion or shrinking properties, it is black spray paint. As a matter of fact, Krylon used to be their supplier, back when their quality control was decent.

It is overpriced black spray paint. If you want something of equal quality the Home Depot brand .99 cent Quik Color spray paint is nearly the same.

For my two cents, Krylon primers are the way to go. Rustoleum isn't bad, but goes on a little thicker. Both are much cheaper and actual primers, not...black spray paint.

Erm... I'm afraid you're wrong here dude. I'm a fully qualified automotive spray painter, so I think I should know the difference between paint and primer. Try spraying two minis. one with gw primer and one with cheap black spray paint (I have tried this). Once dry handle both quite roughly. The gw spray will remain on the model, the cheap spray will quickly start to wear off.

Yes gw's products are more expensive, and cheaper alternatives are available. However, cheap spray paint will not give satisfactory results in the long term.

Apologies for any offence caused.

 sing your life wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Wal Mart sells flat black spray for less than a dollar. GW sprays are a complete rip-off.

I think you forgot that this guy lives in Hong Kong, where there are no walmarts to buy this black spray from.

I'm pretty sure it's MADE in China so he's probably got access somewhere.

I've used GW primer every time I've primed my minis, and I've never had a bad experience except one time where I touched the models a little too early and god my fingerprints all over them. But it's good stuff, just spray in bursts and you can cover quite a few minis with it. I primed around 20 - 30 models with one can and still have some left over.

The primer is great for dark colors. I have really only painted dark colors, but I use the chaos black paint a lot. If you do not get a good primer than the whole painting experience can be much more well not very fun, although I am not saying that there are not other paints that are suitable. They probably have much cheaper paints that will work just fine, but do your research to find out if the primmer is right for you. It seems a save bet would be the chaos black just because that is what most people are used to or probably used the most.

I don't know if it's primer or paint, but of all the black sprays I've used GW's Chaos Black spray is the best. A great black color, excellent adhesion and dries quick without loosing detail. Above my table I have paints from a dozen different companies, I have no preference for any brand, I just want the best paint for each application or color.

Citadel primer is good stuff but expensive for what you get. As to whether its a true primer from a cheMical standpoint I am not really sure and have heard a few different things - nor has it ever really been problem

That said - buy a cheaper matte primer from a hardware store. Test it beforehand to make sure it doesnt gum up your models