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I don't think I have ever beaten Tyranids with my orks. Keep in mind there isn't any list tailoring in my group, we mostly all come with premade lists, so assume we're taking a reasonable ork army, rather than one designed to kill bugs. Last edition I tried out-swarming the swarm and it did not work at all. However, I do think the Headwoppa Killchoppa is a great boon at taking down monstrous creatures assuming the Boss carrying it can get a swing off (which he should at I4 against a fex or other similar gribbly nasty monster).

A specific issue I have is dealing with the Swarmlord + full retinue. One of the local nid players always takes him, without fail. His retinue makes him a tough nut to crack, especially considering you can't double the guards' T to insta kill them. Do you guys just try to drown them in small arms fire, or do you use our artillery and vehicle firepower to try to take him down? Melee against him is basically out of the question, even with the Killchoppa because the Swarmlord WILL strike first and he WILL kill the bearer, no doubt.

That said, how do YOU guys efficiently deal with nids? How do you guys deal with the Swarmlord?

First of all, this is speculation as I don't really ever play against nids, sooooo...ya

But from what I do know about nids I'd say boyz, lootas, tankbustaz, and mek gunz should deal with the MC's. Then I'd have MANz deal with the more elite units like warriors or raveners as well as the venom and zoanthropes. Lobbas and the like will be good against horde nids. Could you post what units you generally run?

As far as the swarmlord goes, I'd guess lootas probably are best equip to deal with him though, tankbustaz and most of the mek gunz will do too, but overall I'd assume lootas would make the quickest work out of him. Otherwise you could throw a blob of boyz at him with a couple meks in their to eat challenges.

If melee is out of the question, then range is the obvious answer. Shoot 'em wit da big gunz!

Squad for squad, Boyz outperform Gaunts. The only real issue is shooting, and Gaunts will bring quite a bit. As for MCs bring Bike Bosses or Biker Nobs. A Terv will only kill Nob Bikers if it smashes for ID. The biker Nobs will PK the Terv to death.

Dakka Jets are crazy good and cheap. Use them to counter Flyrants. Then pepper anything that is giving you trouble.

Burna Boyz in a Battle Wagon is a terrifying thing to behold to ANY army for the amount of wounds they can push. Even Terminators have a bad day when a squad of 5 of them is trying to save 40 wounds worth of industrial fire.

I would also suggest using the new artillery against Flyrants if they are posing a severe problem.

As for the Swarmlord, I'll give you a tip and interesting tactic. Get a squad of Nobs with a Warboss and another character in it (Meks work well) Throw them in a Battlewagon and once you're in charge range, get out and assault. Challenge him with your Mek. He'll obviously kill the Mek, but its about wasting his attacks against the Mek and reducing his Wounds against your squad. Pile your Nobs in first, Warboss behind the nobs. PKs will eventually make their way through to the Swarmlord. No matter how fast he is, he isn't going to bail his Tyrant Guard nor himself out of a squad of Nobs attacking. He'll probably kill 3 maybe 4 on a good charge. You'll win that fight out eventually and if need be, throw Boyz at him as well once he's stuck in CC.

For the little bugs, burna boyz work a treat. My best suggestion for monstrous creatures, swarmy in particular, is either avoid him (he's slow and on foot) or tarpit him. Kustom mega weapons work well too, especially the mek gun version, for taking down monstrous creatures. S8, ap2, blast weapons will put a dent in just about anything. Tankbustas can also be a nightmare for monstrous creatures with a 3+ save, and won't be useless against your other opponents.

Another option would be a mork/gorkanaut, its armour of 13 will be tough to crack for anything shy of a carnifex (s6 can't hurt it at all), with grot riggers it's damn near invincible, and it can put out a good number of s10 ap1 attacks in close combat. The s6 assault 3d6 big shoota on the gorkanaut and rampage for the extra d3 attacks could be your best choice here.

Honestly, I don't see Swarmy when I play 'nids, the lists I go up against are all about the flyrants. So this is just me spitballing. But I think the ideas are sound, at least on paper. Hidden power klaw on a Nob works well too, especially in a Nobz mob, for taking down monstrous creatures, so that might do you well against the swarmlord and company. That's usually my go-to for krumpin' the big 'uns.

If all else fails, just drown him in dice. A pair of full-size mobs of shoota boyz should be able to take a couple of wounds off him and his buddies each turn.

Small arms fire man. It really is that simple. Kill his venomthropes first, then kill off big bugs. Send armor (walker) at his little bugs, and kite swarmlord. He is a beat stick no point in trying to kill him off.

Tyranids have a hard time with armor man (I am a Tyranid player and it is hard). Also Tyranids are a synergist based army and as soon as pieces start falling off from the list it becomes a vast uphill battle for the Tyranid player.

 Bolg da Goff wrote:
I don't think I have ever beaten Tyranids with my orks. Keep in mind there isn't any list tailoring in my group, we mostly all come with premade lists, so assume we're taking a reasonable ork army, rather than one designed to kill bugs. Last edition I tried out-swarming the swarm and it did not work at all. However, I do think the Headwoppa Killchoppa is a great boon at taking down monstrous creatures assuming the Boss carrying it can get a swing off (which he should at I4 against a fex or other similar gribbly nasty monster).

A specific issue I have is dealing with the Swarmlord + full retinue. One of the local nid players always takes him, without fail. His retinue makes him a tough nut to crack, especially considering you can't double the guards' T to insta kill them. Do you guys just try to drown them in small arms fire, or do you use our artillery and vehicle firepower to try to take him down? Melee against him is basically out of the question, even with the Killchoppa because the Swarmlord WILL strike first and he WILL kill the bearer, no doubt.

That said, how do YOU guys efficiently deal with nids? How do you guys deal with the Swarmlord?

I drown them with shots. But then I suppose many of my armies have the ability to do it. Barrages are a first good idea. Lobbas are a good unit, DIIIIIIIRt cheap and impossible to kill. 6 rounds of that should help. But if you dont wanna do JUST that, I have always been in love with Kommandos who can carry two nasty flamers in the unit and show up with Snikrot. Between them and your other hammering blows during a waaaaagh, you might just keep him busy long enough notto do much else in the game. Sometimes killing a dude isnt as important as limiting what he can do. Sometimes the answer is stalling.

One last word: Just because you CAN charge doesnt mean you should. If an enemy is outgunned, let them be for an extra turn Though every fibre in your ork body says no, You may need to accept that chipping away at the stone could be easier than trying to grind them into meal. Charging is what you do when the odds are in your favor and by the sounds of it, thats not happening early enough.

anyways food for thought.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Squad for squad, Boyz outperform Gaunts. The only real issue is shooting, and Gaunts will bring quite a bit. As for MCs bring Bike Bosses or Biker Nobs. A Terv will only kill Nob Bikers if it smashes for ID. The biker Nobs will PK the Terv to death.

Dakka Jets are crazy good and cheap. Use them to counter Flyrants. Then pepper anything that is giving you trouble.

Burna Boyz in a Battle Wagon is a terrifying thing to behold to ANY army for the amount of wounds they can push. Even Terminators have a bad day when a squad of 5 of them is trying to save 40 wounds worth of industrial fire.

I would also suggest using the new artillery against Flyrants if they are posing a severe problem.

As for the Swarmlord, I'll give you a tip and interesting tactic. Get a squad of Nobs with a Warboss and another character in it (Meks work well) Throw them in a Battlewagon and once you're in charge range, get out and assault. Challenge him with your Mek. He'll obviously kill the Mek, but its about wasting his attacks against the Mek and reducing his Wounds against your squad. Pile your Nobs in first, Warboss behind the nobs. PKs will eventually make their way through to the Swarmlord. No matter how fast he is, he isn't going to bail his Tyrant Guard nor himself out of a squad of Nobs attacking. He'll probably kill 3 maybe 4 on a good charge. You'll win that fight out eventually and if need be, throw Boyz at him as well once he's stuck in CC.

Ahah, no.
Remember that Swarmlord has Istant Death and can give himself Preferred enemy (that makes him do almost 5 full ID Wounds on the squad) to his unit (which will be comprised of atleast 2 guards that will do 4 attacks each on the charge with Rending). If he gets Psychic Scream as well you're not going to enjoy a LD Damage Nova (you're never going to deny it if he puts enough dices in the pool). Oh and he has 2 other powers that can badly damage you as well (Orks with lowered WS, damage spells, PINNING Tests, FNP to 2 units).
The only way to efficiently kill Swarmlord with Orks are TL Rokkit spam and Lootas, forget the other options.

I want to try the Blitza-bomma and if venomthrope-spam, the Burna bomma kitted with missiles. should be able to do some damage.

Lootas are always a safe bet, Burna boyz should be good but only in a battlewagon, since their 6+ save is horrible for a specialist unit.

warbuggies coming in from outflank with TL-rokkits or skorchas might work.

People might not like this but I like running 6 killa kans with only big shootas. It takes awhile for them do get grinded down, especially with cover or a KFF around. and 18 s5 shots at bs3 is pretty sweet, altough more of an anti-infantry composition. Against nids Skorcka-kans might even be something to consider.Dat overwatch if nothing else.

I haven't run Kans against nids to so maybe they're utterly doomed against them???

 centuryslayer wrote:
I want to try the Blitza-bomma and if venomthrope-spam, the Burna bomma kitted with missiles. should be able to do some damage.

Lootas are always a safe bet, Burna boyz should be good but only in a battlewagon, since their 6+ save is horrible for a specialist unit.

warbuggies coming in from outflank with TL-rokkits or skorchas might work.

People might not like this but I like running 6 killa kans with only big shootas. It takes awhile for them do get grinded down, especially with cover or a KFF around. and 18 s5 shots at bs3 is pretty sweet, altough more of an anti-infantry composition. Against nids Skorcka-kans might even be something to consider.Dat overwatch if nothing else.

I haven't run Kans against nids to so maybe they're utterly doomed against them???

Kanz will either die to Flyrant/Dakkafexes or Gants with Furious Charge given by Swarmy

oooh yeah, I had mentally blocked out what dakkafexes and the like would do to them! Otherwise grotzookas might have been able to get nasty on the nids! :/


Thanks for the reminder!

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Squad for squad, Boyz outperform Gaunts. The only real issue is shooting, and Gaunts will bring quite a bit. As for MCs bring Bike Bosses or Biker Nobs. A Terv will only kill Nob Bikers if it smashes for ID. The biker Nobs will PK the Terv to death.

Dakka Jets are crazy good and cheap. Use them to counter Flyrants. Then pepper anything that is giving you trouble.

Burna Boyz in a Battle Wagon is a terrifying thing to behold to ANY army for the amount of wounds they can push. Even Terminators have a bad day when a squad of 5 of them is trying to save 40 wounds worth of industrial fire.

I would also suggest using the new artillery against Flyrants if they are posing a severe problem.

As for the Swarmlord, I'll give you a tip and interesting tactic. Get a squad of Nobs with a Warboss and another character in it (Meks work well) Throw them in a Battlewagon and once you're in charge range, get out and assault. Challenge him with your Mek. He'll obviously kill the Mek, but its about wasting his attacks against the Mek and reducing his Wounds against your squad. Pile your Nobs in first, Warboss behind the nobs. PKs will eventually make their way through to the Swarmlord. No matter how fast he is, he isn't going to bail his Tyrant Guard nor himself out of a squad of Nobs attacking. He'll probably kill 3 maybe 4 on a good charge. You'll win that fight out eventually and if need be, throw Boyz at him as well once he's stuck in CC.

Welcome to 7E where excess wounds from a challenge go to the unit, now please have a seat with a guy whose S, WS, I and ID makes him unable to understand when he is pounding on cheap orks or Meks.

Seriously, if he has no crushing claws on the guards then walkers are the way to go to take him down. That is if you can't remove the venom/malan that is sure to be following him, if you can then just shoot away.

LOBBAS and kannons! cheap played em against nids the other day and it slayed em good!
Other stuff to consider, meganobz with kombi skorchas against hordes also against MC's due mass ap2 attacks at high str,

Traktor kannon if he plays flying MC's Auto grounded if wounded is so sweeeet.

Tankbustas due str 8 ap3 shots, can also use bomb squigs as they are not needed to be used on veichles anymore.

Flamer Templates, on the charge boyz, and anything with AP3. Bring a few that can hit a little harder, but stick to AP3. Skyfire is also heavily recommended. You don't need as much much AP2 since the only thing in the codex with it is a Tyrannofex.

 phatonic wrote:
LOBBAS and kannons! cheap played em against nids the other day and it slayed em good!
Other stuff to consider, meganobz with kombi skorchas against hordes also against MC's due mass ap2 attacks at high str,

Traktor kannon if he plays flying MC's Auto grounded if wounded is so sweeeet.

Tankbustas due str 8 ap3 shots, can also use bomb squigs as they are not needed to be used on veichles anymore.

Meganobz with Kombi-Skorcha suck, no overwatch and there's always the risk to fail the charge thanks to the wounds removed from the front

wave your white flags boyz! you aint gonna win this fight!

I played greentide against a nasty Shooty Tyranids list and by turn 3 everything on the ground was dead. Only thing left were 3 Flyrants.

So my vote is greentide + Trakktor Kannons for the win.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Squad for squad, Boyz outperform Gaunts. The only real issue is shooting, and Gaunts will bring quite a bit. As for MCs bring Bike Bosses or Biker Nobs. A Terv will only kill Nob Bikers if it smashes for ID. The biker Nobs will PK the Terv to death.

Dakka Jets are crazy good and cheap. Use them to counter Flyrants. Then pepper anything that is giving you trouble.

Burna Boyz in a Battle Wagon is a terrifying thing to behold to ANY army for the amount of wounds they can push. Even Terminators have a bad day when a squad of 5 of them is trying to save 40 wounds worth of industrial fire.

I would also suggest using the new artillery against Flyrants if they are posing a severe problem.

As for the Swarmlord, I'll give you a tip and interesting tactic. Get a squad of Nobs with a Warboss and another character in it (Meks work well) Throw them in a Battlewagon and once you're in charge range, get out and assault. Challenge him with your Mek. He'll obviously kill the Mek, but its about wasting his attacks against the Mek and reducing his Wounds against your squad. Pile your Nobs in first, Warboss behind the nobs. PKs will eventually make their way through to the Swarmlord. No matter how fast he is, he isn't going to bail his Tyrant Guard nor himself out of a squad of Nobs attacking. He'll probably kill 3 maybe 4 on a good charge. You'll win that fight out eventually and if need be, throw Boyz at him as well once he's stuck in CC.

Ahah, no.
Remember that Swarmlord has Istant Death and can give himself Preferred enemy (that makes him do almost 5 full ID Wounds on the squad) to his unit (which will be comprised of atleast 2 guards that will do 4 attacks each on the charge with Rending). If he gets Psychic Scream as well you're not going to enjoy a LD Damage Nova (you're never going to deny it if he puts enough dices in the pool). Oh and he has 2 other powers that can badly damage you as well (Orks with lowered WS, damage spells, PINNING Tests, FNP to 2 units).
The only way to efficiently kill Swarmlord with Orks are TL Rokkit spam and Lootas, forget the other options.

From experience it has worked for me. Discount it if you'd like. But he's failing at least 1 to hit or 1 to wound roll that first round of combat. The Mek is eating 1 ID wound and then you just have 3 wounds left to allocate to your nobs. You'll cause at LEAST 7 wounds with your Nobs against his squad. Killing his Tyrant guard and wounding his Tyrant. Then your Warboss goes. If he isn't killing it, you've at least won combat. Fearless sure, but you'll be killing him next round of combat. This has been from my experience though. Maybe you guys just have terrible luck on the dice rolls? =/

 GoliothOnline wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Squad for squad, Boyz outperform Gaunts. The only real issue is shooting, and Gaunts will bring quite a bit. As for MCs bring Bike Bosses or Biker Nobs. A Terv will only kill Nob Bikers if it smashes for ID. The biker Nobs will PK the Terv to death.

Dakka Jets are crazy good and cheap. Use them to counter Flyrants. Then pepper anything that is giving you trouble.

Burna Boyz in a Battle Wagon is a terrifying thing to behold to ANY army for the amount of wounds they can push. Even Terminators have a bad day when a squad of 5 of them is trying to save 40 wounds worth of industrial fire.

I would also suggest using the new artillery against Flyrants if they are posing a severe problem.

As for the Swarmlord, I'll give you a tip and interesting tactic. Get a squad of Nobs with a Warboss and another character in it (Meks work well) Throw them in a Battlewagon and once you're in charge range, get out and assault. Challenge him with your Mek. He'll obviously kill the Mek, but its about wasting his attacks against the Mek and reducing his Wounds against your squad. Pile your Nobs in first, Warboss behind the nobs. PKs will eventually make their way through to the Swarmlord. No matter how fast he is, he isn't going to bail his Tyrant Guard nor himself out of a squad of Nobs attacking. He'll probably kill 3 maybe 4 on a good charge. You'll win that fight out eventually and if need be, throw Boyz at him as well once he's stuck in CC.

Ahah, no.
Remember that Swarmlord has Istant Death and can give himself Preferred enemy (that makes him do almost 5 full ID Wounds on the squad) to his unit (which will be comprised of atleast 2 guards that will do 4 attacks each on the charge with Rending). If he gets Psychic Scream as well you're not going to enjoy a LD Damage Nova (you're never going to deny it if he puts enough dices in the pool). Oh and he has 2 other powers that can badly damage you as well (Orks with lowered WS, damage spells, PINNING Tests, FNP to 2 units).
The only way to efficiently kill Swarmlord with Orks are TL Rokkit spam and Lootas, forget the other options.

From experience it has worked for me. Discount it if you'd like. But he's failing at least 1 to hit or 1 to wound roll that first round of combat. The Mek is eating 1 ID wound and then you just have 3 wounds left to allocate to your nobs. You'll cause at LEAST 7 wounds with your Nobs against his squad. Killing his Tyrant guard and wounding his Tyrant. Then your Warboss goes. If he isn't killing it, you've at least won combat. Fearless sure, but you'll be killing him next round of combat. This has been from my experience though. Maybe you guys just have terrible luck on the dice rolls? =/

Or maybe your Tyranid player doesn't know how to place decently for an assault. Swarmlord has a value of 6 Initiative and piles in first with a 3" movement. Since you can only have 10 nobs per unit he could easily charge from a better position so that after the Mek the next guys are 1-2 nobs and Warboss.
Anyway since the entire unit attacks at Iniative 1, I can't understand how those guys would kill the entire unit. Swarmlord has 6 attacks on the charge, with Preferred Enemy 5 goes, so Mek + 4 Nobs Dead. Afterwards 4 attacks for each guard, hitting with 7 of them (assuming 2 guard), wounding with other 6 attacks and unless the entire nob unit has 'eavy armor 3 of them are dead (not even mentioning Fear Tests, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, all that mess with Orks badly)

Tryharder

Sorry, nobs would never ever ever make that kind of wounds on a SL+ Tguard.

You lose the mek and 4 nobs to the SL, and at least one more to the Tguard. 4 nobz + mega nob left. Heavy armors may save the one killed by the Tguard (which has rending BTW).

5 Nobs alive with big choppas make 25 attacks on charge. They hit on 5+ wound on 3+ and nids save on 3+, for an average number of wounds of 1.8. Then there is the Mega nob with 5 more attacks which wound on 2 and save at 4+. That's 0.7 wounds for a total of 2.7.

why are they hitting on 5 instead of 4? WS5 nobs hit nothing on a 5.

Ok let's put everything in, everyone with armor and big chppas, mega nob with klaw, charging with Waagh WS5 and at I.

Mek challenges and dies at I 6 bringin 4 nobs with him. 5 nobs attack with 25 dices at 4+, 5+, 3+ for a total of 1,36 wounds. Let's say that the Tguard dies, now the meganob rolls 5 times at 4+,2+,4+ for 1 wound.

That's 3 wounds being generous. The orks lose the fight by 2. Let's say the pass the test. Now the SL challenges the mega nob and IDs him and 4 more nobs, leaving only one nob alive to answer and hitting at 5- with 4 attacks and wounding at 6. Guess who wins?

If your dice were hot and managed 7 wounds then i can see you winning the fight, but that's a case, not a solution.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Or maybe your Tyranid player doesn't know how to place decently for an assault. Swarmlord has a value of 6 Initiative and piles in first with a 3" movement. Since you can only have 10 nobs per unit he could easily charge from a better position so that after the Mek the next guys are 1-2 nobs and Warboss.
Anyway since the entire unit attacks at Iniative 1, I can't understand how those guys would kill the entire unit. Swarmlord has 6 attacks on the charge, with Preferred Enemy 5 goes, so Mek + 4 Nobs Dead. Afterwards 4 attacks for each guard, hitting with 7 of them (assuming 2 guard), wounding with other 6 attacks and unless the entire nob unit has 'eavy armor 3 of them are dead (not even mentioning Fear Tests, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, all that mess with Orks badly)

Tryharder <------

You sound exceptionally Grumpy. Not sure why, but here's some ice cream and a cookie. Maybe next time you'll refrain from posting something unnecessary and recall the fact I've said I've done this before. Who knows, maybe the Dice were on my side. Either way, try to lighten up a bit.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
As for the Swarmlord, I'll give you a tip and interesting tactic. Get a squad of Nobs with a Warboss and another character in it (Meks work well) Throw them in a Battlewagon and once you're in charge range, get out and assault. Challenge him with your Mek. He'll obviously kill the Mek, but its about wasting his attacks against the Mek and reducing his Wounds against your squad. Pile your Nobs in first, Warboss behind the nobs. PKs will eventually make their way through to the Swarmlord. No matter how fast he is, he isn't going to bail his Tyrant Guard nor himself out of a squad of Nobs attacking. He'll probably kill 3 maybe 4 on a good charge. You'll win that fight out eventually and if need be, throw Boyz at him as well once he's stuck in CC.

this

Ha!!! I play against nids OFTEN and his bone swords are ap2 instant death sooooo no my friend. He would kill all da nobzzzz
ALSO the thing is t6 5w and s alot he will maul anything that does not have an AWESOME invul save or EW, promise.
and high five to you man if this tactic has worked for you in the past but I bet you money it wouldnt happen consistantly

The best way to deal with him, (IMO) is to make your nid opponent deploy first so you can see where he is trying to get him and line up a havoc squad with lascannons, when he isnt in cover he is just dead. But for you and your orks I recommend pinning it down with your lootaz and artillery.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
LOBBAS and kannons! cheap played em against nids the other day and it slayed em good!
Other stuff to consider, meganobz with kombi skorchas against hordes also against MC's due mass ap2 attacks at high str,

Traktor kannon if he plays flying MC's Auto grounded if wounded is so sweeeet.

Tankbustas due str 8 ap3 shots, can also use bomb squigs as they are not needed to be used on veichles anymore.

Meganobz with Kombi-Skorcha suck, no overwatch and there's always the risk to fail the charge thanks to the wounds removed from the front

I beg to differ now as we have boarding planks and reroll 1 dice on charge.

Played a goofy game against nids today but I think I actually learned some valuable lessons that many of you have mentioned here. It was a dreadmob vs monstrous creatures brawl with some support on either side.

What I found was:

Kannons are the new black. Holy crap. I took a blob of 5 manned by 18 grots with full ammo runts. They put down a monstrous creature almost every turn. Any monstrous creature that had the misfortune of being out of cover and not at full wounds were put down hard. Tied for star player with the next on the list...

Headwoppas Killchoppa is hilariously amazing. It strikes at initiative, and a Warboss has a higher initiative than most of the big bugs. Dont even bother with heavy armour, the choppa is just fine and maybe a rokkit and runt if you're feeling cheeky. He decapitated two monstrous creatures before he whiffed out and got stepped on, but definitely made his points back.

Which brings us to the next valuable lesson I have learned: Nids dont have assault grenades (for the most part), and against everything orky in my heart, most times I opted to let him charge me to negate his ini bonus entirely. Often I was able to get the first swings in and pray I could get the kill.

The issue with the game was that ork walkers (except the gorkamorkas,, which are a whole other can of worms) cant go toe to toe with MCs. An MC has 6 wounds and an armour save and theres no way to double out its toughness, but a walker can totally be one shot, and even if its not, it only has 3 "wounds."

All in all the game ended up playing out with my just sort of throwing my dreads and kanz at him to slow him down enough that I could pick off his trygons and carnifexes with kannons, and lop the heads off his big bugs (the one with the flamer template?) with my boss.

It ended up just boiling down to the old ork philosophy: If I can krump it, krump it. If I can't, dakka time.

I had my doubts, but again, I cannot praise enough the humble kannon. Its only downside is I cant take them in unites of twenty!

Tyranids really should have army-wide rules to ignore terrain penalties when charging, just because theyre basically all Beasts without actually being a beast. Grenades for them make no sense, but it hurts them so bad to not have them since they attack at init 1 if they charge through it.

Quite frankly, i look at tyranids with my orks and have the same feeling i get when i look at my orks with my tau. I just dont see how they can beat us without some severe out-played tactics or damn good luck. Just like my casual, non-tailored Tau list will crush ANYTHING my orks bring...far as i know/have experienced anything Tyranids bring my casual orks will crush since i shoot more, clear hordes better, krump bugs better, and out-range him with what isnt charging.
Lobbas will eat gaunts alive. 6 Lobbas are what i bring every game, i dont bring more because i lack the models atm. They tend to eat marines throughout the game, and if im against 5+ armor units or worse....its just sickening how fast they clear the numbers lol. Opens the doors for my MANz missiles or warbikers to charge things of value and not get tarpitted.

This is actually a very fun and balanced match up IMO.

AV14 is strong here.

AV13 isn't bad either. Kanz and Deff Dreads will step on him fairly efficiently point-for-point now smash has its limits and iron arm is no longer a possibility.

I'm not 100% on the changes to them two this edition, but from what I know there's still not a lot of MCs to assault with the Walkers. Flyrants, Crones & Harpies need to be grounded and also risky mobility play from the Nid player, Tervigon & TFex will both have eGrubs (or should do) for the template overwatch of glancing hits, and Carnifexes are probably going to throw down efficiently with either of them. Are Kanz still dirt cheap? I really need to take a proper look at the codex, but spammed cans might just be cost efficient if there is no Venomthrope in range for defensive grenades, then again still not what I'd call a great counter. With rear armour 10 smash was a choice between 50% attacks and 50% chance to HP, the smash nerf isn't huge for Ork walkers at all, very similar results from just regular attacks.

Units like the Exocrine will be a cost effective engagement for Orks, but being that the Exocrine is generally wasted points vs Orks anyway, and combined with the fact that it generally sits behind everything else due to having 6" range more than practically the entirety of the rest of the codex, Kanz n Dreads probably aren't necessary or even the best option.

We're you saying a specific counter for the Swarmlord? Because yes they might actually do well vs him, I didn't even factor him in. Being the absolute worst model in the Tyranid codex he's hardly common, he stands the possibility to maybe be worth his points in this one due to the nature of it, but he's still ridiculously overpriced. Not exactly sure what the best plan of attack is vs him.

I think being that the best way to play Nids at the moment is mass Dakkafexes, the walkers are probably pretty bad choice for a general Nids match up.

AV14 carrying the real threats like tankbustaz is the real way to go.