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Seems like for the cheep points you can get some nice anti-tank or infantry. Low armor and hull points, but jink. So, why don't I see them more often in lists? What am I missing?

Was thinking about taking 3 groups of 3 with multi-metla, typhoon missile launchers for my Space Wolves to spam a lot of S8 attacks.

I would recommend Assault Cannon or Heavy Bolter instead of the Multimelta if you're going for anti-infantry. Keep the Multi Melta if you want to do anti-tank. Remember, they get deepstrike too. Land Speeders but can be good, but you usually only see them in things like Ravenwing lists where its all bikes and fast attack models. LS are good, but due to low armor and hull points, are very easily first blood. Jink has gotten better, but is still a 50/50

No they aren't worth it.

They are incredibly easy to kill. AV10 and 2HP means anything that looks at them will destroy one including regular SM with just bolters. And if you opt to jink they have to snap fire making them useless.

They work best in lists with good armor saturation. I find they do enough damage to justify taking, but not so much they get bumped up the target priority queue. They are fragile, so can be tricky to use, but also a lot of fun.

I’ve been enjoying a pair of TML/HB speeders. They have long range, so it takes dedicated fire directed at them to take them down. The short range speeders can be brought down with random bolter fire, so tend to die faster. Then again, MM a/o HF speeders are more suicide speeders, and can generally justify their points with one good shot.

Attack bikes can fill a similar role for some weapon outlays, and generally have stronger rules in this edition. At least on the codex side, where they get chapter tactics. Not sure about Wolves/DA/BA.

They just aren't worth the points. They compete with grav bikes, storm talons, TWC and stormwolves. Those are some of the best fast attack choices in the game. Speeders are an expensive suicide unit. You can jink but then they can't kill anything and they're a waste of points. You can choose not to jink and they get blown up immediately which is also a waste of points. I'm not surprised you never see them on top tables in tournaments any more.

they are good like almost any unit. just have to be used correctly.
i like Double MM in my Sally lists. or MM flamer if im feelin crazy.

the missile launcher one is goof if you have fast army and just want some one to hang back and shoot.

it mostly depends on your army and play style.

Are they top tier musts no but they can be played well

Thanks everyone. I'm trying to build a list at 1500 that can handle the stupid Imperial Knights. Got a tourney next month and I know at least 1 player is brining 2!!!!! at 1500. Thought some suicide LS would maybe help out with that.

Any other ideas on Imperial Knight killers (if such a thing exists). My last game was with small Long Fangs and Termies with meltas everywhere. Drop Pod with 2 Multi-Melta, 1 melta gun (from the Long Fang Ancient) and 1 Combi-Melta (from Wolf Guard). Termies were 3 groups of 3 with combi-melta and frost axe. I think this was ok, but termies needed chainfists for the 2D6 pen. Could not hurt the damn thing in CC with that. The unit that did the best was my ven derd with axe and shield, but still only did a total of 7 hull point damage between the 2 knights. Neither destroyed.

Speeders are not a good anti infantry unit. 3 tac marines are better than a speeder at mowing down infantry and the tac marines are objective secured.

MEQ can't move 12" and unload a 2 multi melta shots.

MEQ can't deep strike and unload 2 multi melta shots.

spaztacus wrote:
Thanks everyone. I'm trying to build a list at 1500 that can handle the stupid Imperial Knights. Got a tourney next month and I know at least 1 player is brining 2!!!!! at 1500. Thought some suicide LS would maybe help out with that.

Any other ideas on Imperial Knight killers (if such a thing exists).

If you play Space Wolves, take Wolf Guard that are all using Combimeltas. If SM, take Sternguard with said weaponry. They cost half the points of a Knight and if you drop 10 of them ( I´d use multiple units of 5 to different sides to counter the shield ) on a Knight it´s dead. Then there´s the rest of your army aswell to give them support. A decent tarpit for a Knight is Assault Terminators with SS+TH, unless the Knight player rolls 6´s. But I wouldn´t use those, Terminators haven´t been a competitive choice for like 4 editions.

Knights also can´t hurt air, the Stormfang gunship can provide good support ( or even kill it. )

Scouts can take them as dedicated transports and get Scout/Outflank, right?

I don't see how a fast OS unit with a flamer/melta showing up right in the enemy's flank is not worth it.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Speeders are not a good anti infantry unit. 3 tac marines are better than a speeder at mowing down infantry and the tac marines are objective secured.

MEQ can't move 12" and unload a 2 multi melta shots.

MEQ can't deep strike and unload 2 multi melta shots.

I can't remember how much dual MM speeders runs for, but 2 MM attack comes in at 100pts, which are T5 with 2 wounds each so are much more durable. Sure, they can't DS but they are fast and can flat out into cover T1 if there's no targets.

As a bonus they have TL bolters so can pull some anti-infantry duty.

I wish speeders were better, but I think they look really cool.

D

Mellee scouts with a meltabomb sergeant in landspeeder storm are situationally awesome. Especially vs low-model count motorised enemies when you can both hide a speeder and than assault with a bunch of krak nades and a melta bomb guaranteeing a dead vehicle or finishing off some unlucky squad. Scouts are quite fine in mellee on the charge with their 3 s4 attacks, t4 and 4+ armor.

 evildrcheese wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Speeders are not a good anti infantry unit. 3 tac marines are better than a speeder at mowing down infantry and the tac marines are objective secured.

MEQ can't move 12" and unload a 2 multi melta shots.

MEQ can't deep strike and unload 2 multi melta shots.

I can't remember how much dual MM speeders runs for, but 2 MM attack comes in at 100pts, which are T5 with 2 wounds each so are much more durable. Sure, they can't DS but they are fast and can flat out into cover T1 if there's no targets.

As a bonus they have TL bolters so can pull some anti-infantry duty.

I wish speeders were better, but I think they look really cool.

D

RW attack bikes can also scout. Dunno about regular SM though

Speeders preform well in 2 situations:

Deep strike melta for anti-AV.

You can take 2-3 speeders all with double melta in a salamanders army with vulkan to basically guarentee a vehicle dead. This costs only 160-240 points depending on 2 or 3 purchased.

Long range harrassment unit.

A squad of 3 with TML and heavy bolter is a nice harrassment unit, able to stay away from the enemy while tossing 6 krak missles and 9 Heavy bolter shots. As long as you have some of your army advancing and threatening your opponent he wont have an easy time dealing with them.

You have to take them in large numbers. And the only one I've found worthwhile is a Typhoon with HB. Nice and cheap and has good firepower. Especially in large ground.

Only problem is competing with flyers.

Typhoon with heavy bolter is ALWAYS on my list now.

For 75 points you get a potent little gunboat that quite often gets ignored by your enemy for the first turn while they deal with more pressing threats.

I have proxied a MM/HF one before but not with as much success, Melta is too feared as a rule and any player with half decent armour will make sure the paper thin thing is popped before you get to use it.

I also run a storm loaded with Shotgun scouts and a combi flamer sgt with a heavy flamer. Now that is a beauty, when it gets close it can tear weaker infantry to pieces, not to mention score and get objective secured.

They are good units, but they compete with some of the best units in the SM codes (Bikes and Stormtalons), so it's rare to see them in tournament lists.

A squadron of 3 Typhoons has a rather frightening amount of long ranged firepower for it's cost, and is very maneuverable (and so can stay out of danger). Multmelta Landspeeders are very dangerous in Vulkan lists. They're very good at spamming AP4 weapons, and can mow down infantry.

Fragile, sure. But they're awesome at applying pressure where it can do the most damage.

On a side note - look at the FW Javelin. For 95pts you get a multimelta, a typoon missile launcher and 2 hunter killer missiles. Deepstrike that behind/next to a vehicle and it will seriously mess it up!

Poly Ranger wrote:
On a side note - look at the FW Javelin. For 95pts you get a multimelta, a typoon missile launcher and 2 hunter killer missiles. Deepstrike that behind/next to a vehicle and it will seriously mess it up!

Are those still in the experemental rules stage? Or did they get formally published in a book? When the first rules came out they struck me as a bit over the top, compared to normal speeders.

 Nevelon wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
On a side note - look at the FW Javelin. For 95pts you get a multimelta, a typoon missile launcher and 2 hunter killer missiles. Deepstrike that behind/next to a vehicle and it will seriously mess it up!

Are those still in the experemental rules stage? Or did they get formally published in a book? When the first rules came out they struck me as a bit over the top, compared to normal speeders.

Yeh - officially published in IA:2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot to mention - av11.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
On a side note - look at the FW Javelin. For 95pts you get a multimelta, a typoon missile launcher and 2 hunter killer missiles. Deepstrike that behind/next to a vehicle and it will seriously mess it up!

Are those still in the experemental rules stage? Or did they get formally published in a book? When the first rules came out they struck me as a bit over the top, compared to normal speeders.

Yeh - officially published in IA:2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot to mention - av11.

Did they tone the rules down at all? Or do they still swap the ability to squadron for outflank, TL’ing the missile launcher, AV 11 front/sides, and more options/upgrades? Becasue if you were planning on including a single TML/HB speeder in your list there is no reason not to make it a Javelin.

~_~ seeing as how hornets are a thing, i dont think any rules for landspeeders are over the top.

No ability to squadron - one only.
Has outflank and deepstrike.
Cyclone missile launcher is indeed tl.
Av 11/11/10.
Heavy bolter.
75pts.

Hb can be exchanged for:
Multimelta - 10pts
Heavy flamer - free.

Tl cyclone can be exchanged for:
Tl lascannon - 10pts.

Can take upto 2 HK missiles at 5pts each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has relic of the armoury rule so can take more than one with master of the forge - but only 1 per slot.

Eihnlazer wrote:~_~ seeing as how hornets are a thing, i dont think any rules for landspeeders are over the top.

Eldar have a lot of nice toys, but I try to compare marine hardware to other imperial gear before looking to how it balances compared to Xenos. And the Javelin is quite the bargin over a normal speeder.

Poly Ranger wrote:No ability to squadron - one only.
Has outflank and deepstrike.
Cyclone missile launcher is indeed tl.
Av 11/11/10.
Heavy bolter.
75pts.

Hb can be exchanged for:
Multimelta - 10pts
Heavy flamer - free.

Tl cyclone can be exchanged for:
Tl lascannon - 10pts.

Can take upto 2 HK missiles at 5pts each.

Has relic of the armoury rule so can take more than one with master of the forge - but only 1 per slot.

So largely unchanged. Thanks for the update.

Nps :-)

I have been using a Squadron of three HB/Typhoon Land Speeders since the end of 5th with my Space Wolves and I can tell you this.
The Can Be Effective especially in a Squadron.
With how damage is inflicted now it is a little harder to kill off.
What also helps is having multiple Fire Support Units to take the Heat. For me it is 1-2 Long Fangs with Missile-Launchers and Las-Cannons along with a Rifleman Dead helps deal with Anti-Fire Support Units.

I've been looking at running 3 mm/Hf speeders in my list. Get an inquisitor with 3 servo skulls, deploy those where you want your speeders and presto, melta in face.

It's a 7 point cheaper method of safe(r) deepstrike than using locator beacons. No doubt there are more resilient units to take, though a squad of these suddenly appearing behind enemy lines could make for a nasty surprise.

No

 PhillyT wrote:
No

Care to expand a little?

Surprisingly so. They get a bad rap for being too fragile. I used to think so to. Id just take one when I had spare points. Id use them as a suicide runner distraction, on the hopes that it would make its points back. It never worked.

The way ive used them to good effect is as long range heavy weapons support platform. Take them with CMLs. Put there buts up against the table edge stay at 42 inches from enemies. Dance with your enemies until round 3 or so. Then close in to use the HBs. Also make sure you take at least 2. Armor saturation REALLY helps. They work well in conjunction with other armored units, especially las preds. 2 las preds with 2 CML LSs pump out a lot of long range hurt. Rifle dreds also work, or dev dreds too for the additional AA support. What they work well with in my experience is drop pod armies.