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Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

Hey everyone I think I have decided to make this a GAME DESIGN Club on dakkadakka. Where we get to talk about games in a reasonable matter. All sexism arguments and issues that are quite controversial in the games industry must be avoided this is mostly because I am interested in talking and learning from both players and designers.

Asherian's Game Review of Skyrim
As requested by his professors.
Opinion Piece
Platform : PC


NOTE:
Alright people I will be writing a few opinionated pieces on here. Mostly discussing games and implications and the problems encountered in it. I usually test a game by playing it for 10 hours at least. And having knowledge in the industry will let me discuss the problems in the game in a bit more depth compared to the average game reviewer.
If you find mistakes in my work. Please message me or comment on this forum without further ado.

Title of Game: Skyrim
Publisher and Game Development Studio: Bethesda Studios
Platform: PC
Genre Action-Adventure-Open Role Playing Game
Rating : M
Player Mode: Single Player
Time Interval - Real Time
Graphics Engine: Creation Engine

Introduction:
Welcome to a world filled with dragons, mythic beasts that speak a language far beyond our own, a world filled with elves, orcs, demons, humans, and many other incredible creatures. In this world there are mortals who carry the soul and blood of a dragon. There are the Dovahkiin, Dragonborn. This adventure takes you from the cold frozen wastes of Winterhold, to a slightly warmer but still cold looking Riften to the mid-summer home of Solitude.

Now this one of the first times I have ever played this game. One of the things I quickly noticed was its lack luster beginning. Now it is something that is pivotal in a game. The beginning of the game should have the hook or the initial introduction of the world. Unfortunately Skyrim does extremely poorly up to this point.

You start in a carriage chained to the floor. You can't even move you can only move the camera. This is highly ineffective, as we are told all these names, as a new comer would be quite confused by the dialogue. In the first few minutes we the words akatosh, Windhelm, Ufric Stormcloak, stormcloaks, Hammerfell, Sovogaurd, The Empire, and several other names. First in my head. I'm going. "Wait who? Whats that?" That may work on fans of the series, but newcomers would be immensely confused by this.

This is a huge mistake. You need to introduce me to the world, but slowly. You can't throw names around without confusing the player or reader. They will be immensely confused.

This game's introduction should set the scene. Not build up this giant world immediately at the get go. Baby steps in this regard is high perferred. If we added going through a camp and the initial bit where you are captured the introduction would of been far strong. As we can see in the very introduction there were bits and pieces that didn't work. In Skyrim it is famed for its beautiful environments. Unfortunately it does not get to this point till 30 minutes in.

There is also the problem of tension. In the beginning you are sent off to die. Immediately when you step off your carriage. You are asked. "What is your name again?"

And then a screen pops up and you can choose what your character looks like and what their name is.

This is ineffective as it throws out the entire tension out the window all that tension they were building up was gone in an instant. Because why would they kill the player in the first 15 minutes after introducing your character? It would of been better to have done this after this whole introduction, or to have you been killed by the dragon. And then cut to riverwood when a stranger comes to town and you go out for an adventure. This would of made the whole game more interesting. Like as if the son of the character killed is looking for their father and trying to figure out where they were. A simple problem then could evolve into something else.

I felt no drive in the beginning to go forward. I had to push myself to enjoy the game. But after that hurdle. The game got much much better.

What Worked:
Attractiveness of the game or the Environment and Graphic Engine:


One of the most notable features of Skyrim is its immense environments, its very beautiful scenes that will make you completely surprised. The game knows this and feels like it should reward you with these scenes. This makes the game feel grand, epic, and adventurous. This also adds a bit of immersion to the player and to anyone playing the game. The graphics themselves for their time were revolutionary in the way they did many things, though compared to todays technology it really isn’t a complaint. Unfortunately even on maximum settings everything has this glossy texture to it. Now you may be wondering why you be covering this bit? Because thats only the humanoid characters, all beast creatures, or creature with hair or even the dragons are extremely well done, they seem very real. You can tell more work was poured into the dragons and beasts than into the humanoid models. The environment changes from a world of snow, to slightly less snow, to the beginning of summer. Something I wish they had implemented was seasons. I mean you have rain, snow, moons, and cloud movement. You would think that weather seasons would be quite easy to obtain.

Gameplay and its Replayability:

Due to the scale of the game, It is best to talk about what the game offers in terms of mechanics and gameplay. In fact there are so many things to do in Skyrim that one of the things you can’t do is have all the skills and perks available for your own personal use. This is not a drawback, its a bonus.

This is a hardcore, if you make a mistake you have to live with it choice. As in recurring games media this seems to be overlooked a challenge to the player having to think about his actions is just as rewarding and if not more beneficial to the player than allowing them full access to all skills. The only complaints is that there is far too much to do in skyrim. (Having Invested 10 hours into playing the game and seeing its problems.)

Like most RPGs, you can customize your character to your liking each level you gain a perk and along these lines you can choose from an assortment of skills, in total there are 18 skills you can use. They are as follows:

The Mage
● Alteration
● Conjuration
● Destruction
● Illusion
● Restoration
The Warrior
● Enchanting
● Archery
● Block
● Heavy Armor
● One-Handed
● Two-Handed
● Smithing
The Thief
● Alchemy
● Light Armor
● Lockpicking
● Pickpocket
● Sneak
● Speech


I decided to go a more interesting root, taking conjuration and one hand, heavy armor, archery, and smithing. Unfortunately that is a ton of perk points to invest in. (It means I screwed up), apparently you are suppose to at the beginning of the game only invest in two skill paths. I invested in many. Though we are never told to do this in game. I only found this out due to investigating a bit further in the game.

These skills once level also you level you up. But you need a certain amount of skill level ups in order to achieve a character level there is a set requirement of how many per level. Each time you gain a Character level.

The gameplay is quite addictive correlate your right hand and left hand weapons with their respective side of the mouse.

This actually adds quite a bit depth into the game and makes it quite immersive and addicting. Now lets move onto the most interesting part.

What is the game really like? It plays out like newer RPGs where it gives you a set of quests that you have to complete. It reminded me a lot of World of Warcraft. But instead of finding the person with the hovering glyph or exclamation mark above their head, you would come into a town and you would talk to the townsfolk. Huh imagine that, a game that thought about immersion. They would give you a quest and then will reward you with a small amount of gold for your efforts.

In this game though unlike World of Warcraft, it actually feels rewarding to kill the targets, like you are making a difference, as each camp of bandits. No matter how many times I destroy a bandit group it always plays out different. With variety in enemy types there is no telling what type of bandit you will face. Though this repetition has made me quite battle harden with my level 19 Conjuration Master. As I just summon minions to kill everything.

This game gives you quite a bit of freedom I often feel like it hits me over the head with it quite often. The strongest part of skyrim is in its freedom to basically do whatever you want. It is basically a sandbox rpg game. If that doesn’t spark interest. I don’t know what will.


The irks are that these big organizations like Winterhold College, The Companions, The Dawnguard and whoever, their stories just were far too short. They were the same thing over and over. The Companion missions be fetch this from an enemy stronghold or from a crypt. It was tiresome and got extremely boring to the point I thought to myself. "Oh god if they send me to one of those places one more time I swear to god!"

Which they abruptly did. If they added more variety like an actual fetch quest, or kill this many animals, or kill this many animals and shave their skin, or deliver this note, or help me organize this bookshelf, It would of made these repetitive quests more interesting.

Though there are a few things you cannot do, well you can but it is deeply discouraged from doing them. You can’t go into a town and lock picking into someones house while a guard walks by. That is the surest way to get caught. Its not like I have tried killing an entire town while transforming into a werewolf to rob peoples silverware. In my opinion in order to be a good game you have to a balance of all things, Skyrim has excellent gameplay and replayability. So much so that it is incredible.

Music:

I think by now I am quite jaded when it comes hearing music from games, as most times its rock and roll. But Skyrim has one of the most beautiful scores, I’ve heard from recent memory. It uses a blend of beautiful overtones and voices that make them sound angelic to the ear. It is also a great way during the game to get the player pumped up. Now there are many things that happened whenever a dragon attacks, the music pumps up. And it really gives you the energy to fight that dragon.

This is something I enjoyed very much. Though sometimes it felt like there was a symphony orchestra following me around. Sometimes the music though comes in on the wrong time. It is also a great cue to tell you. “HEY LOOK SOMETHING IS HAPPENING!” This really adds to immersion in a way, it makes you want to do something quite epic. But now we move onto the problems I had in skyrim.

The Problems and what I didn’t like:

Story:

Basically what the story is like;

As far as I could tell the story is one of most confusing messes I have ever seen in my entire life. Lets start with what is the main point of the story. To kill dragons and save the world. You learn you are the dragonborn, and then there are hundreds of extra quests. The Civil War of Skyrim being one of most notable extra quests. For a civil war it is probably the shortest one in history, and what do you get for helping the jarls or empire winning? An item. Yep, just an item, a not very good item either, an item that you have by that time already gotten something better. So there is no real point to doing the quests, as there are only five of them. I was quite disappointed by this. The story was very confusing and hard to follow for this questline. For this game the storyline is hit and miss. (Mostly Miss) By that point I figured out that the writing department must of just thought “You know what, Lets stop trying.”

I found that the main organization quests were quite boring. I felt hyped to fight in the civil war of skyrim. But it just sort of ended. Shouldn't there be... I don't know.... Defense missions or scouting missions? Or i don't know battle missions where you fight in giant battles where dragons fly over and killing troops?

It just felt empty to be with these famed organizations. Also them making you their leader seemed kind of, out of place. "Hey there is this mute guy. Lets make him our leader."
"Right behind you, man!"

This becomes extremely apparent in several missions when at the end of the winterhold college missions you become the arch-mage. Funnily enough, I had yet to use a single magical spell. I had been using a sword the majority of the time, and only used conjuration magic, and some restoration magic.. It just disconnects me from the game itself. The story was all over the place. We already know who the bad guys are and they aren't that threatening after you kill the first twenty.

The enemies felt weak after a while, and didn't live up to the world's definition of powerful. They seemed weak and letdowns compared to their mythical powers. Such as the wolf queen quest. Which should of been a lot longer than it was. As I completed it in an hour. There was very little dialogue as well, which did not help the quest chain either.

To improve this they need more character interaction apart from in the beginning and the end of a quest. You need to sparkle it through out the game.

Though there are some good parts to the game. The last winterhold college quest is probably the best quest I had played in skyrim. Mostly due to the very hard labyrinth where my magic was drained and my healing abilities severely reduced. It made sense in the story. We were in a labyrinth that sucked our magic away from us. And what do we find out the main enemy couldn't hurt me because he was far enough away that I just picked him off with a bow. There are several problems in skyrims story lines. But making a big world like this is probably where they put most of their resources into.

My major issue is that it feels disconnected and so many disconnects happen in the game that I stop thinking about the world I am in. Its just another game. The story is the most important part, and Skyrim was Incredibly lacking in that degree.

Sound And Voice Acting:

She is quite chatty (Not really)


I think anyone who knows a lot about skyrim or has played thus far knows fairly well that the voice cast consisted of 20 people. Or what felt like at least 20 people. It is one of the things that rips you straight out of the experience as guards constantly bicker at you or insult you, and all seem to have the voice.

The words “I used to be adventure like you, till I took an arrow in the knee.” Is one of the most annoying things in the entire game that and the same stupid dialogue that was impressively breaking. The sound itself is not impressive, the voice acting is not impressive, in-fact it is probably the worst voice acting I have ever heard. There is no character, there is no emotion in what these people are saying. Some hit it, most don’t. I had a child come up to me and say that her parents were killed, I was not in the least bit convinced by the tone of her voice. She sounded bored, in fact all the children in skyrim just feel wrong to be around.

There are many things that I would say that broke the game for me. And the voice acting just took it a step too far, that made the game feel rushed and not as well put together. Now the best way to enjoy skyrim is through the mods set up by the community, because there is a hotfix that fixes everything I just said about the voice acting. Minus the children of the corn.
Now on the sound. The game feels empty.

There should be birds and the blowing of the wind but I didn’t. It felt game breaking, there is so much they could of simply added and it would of added volumes to the story and gameplay as a whole. Though other than this the main characters, mainly the Jarls (Vassals/Lords) are voiced properly and have the best actors in the whole game.
This is a problem because they are the ones you interact with least. I Found that I visited the stores to get rid of my stockpile of items I get from an adventure. The actresses and actors were quite mediocre at best.

I want to feel emotion for these characters, but I don't get that emotion, because there is no soul behind the words said. I don't feel sad for this character. If this character says her parents are dead, I want to feel it.

Not.. "Hey! My parents are dead. Okay. So what now?"

Shouldn't it be the girl crying at the door of her house, and you take notice of this child?
All the children in Skyrim act like adults. They don't act any different I found it hard to tell.
And that one brat who talked down to me like she owned the world. Was one of the few times I saved my game turned into a werewolf and tried to kill her, Unforunately the skyrim creators must of thought. "Hey you know those demon childs we put in the game we should make them unkillable, and essential. Because there might be people who hate their characters and might want to kill them!"


The Pathing and the AI:



Suddenly Everything is right in the world.


One of the worst bits of this game is traveling from place to place on foot. Especially those hard to reach areas, there is a certain way up. I Took this a challenge and claimed up a peak to only bug out of the wall and fly high in the sky and die. Another time I ran my horse up a cliff and glitched out and got stuck in the wall permanently. Infact I think the game knows this and after you have visited a place you can fast travel to that location. In a blink. This is a recurring problem as objective markers sometimes misplace themselves in areas they shouldn’t be, mountains you can sometimes walk through, sometimes you trip off a ledge and die. Sometimes the objective marker is so far off it is almost comical.
Its those times when you wonder if anyone had actually tested those areas. Traveling to those far off regions especially when they are on water.
Now you can swim, but the problem is that it takes longer to do so. As the map sometimes improperly locates the objective marker on your map a literal mile away from the objective. Its this type of thing that makes the game kind of terrible for those who need proper linear pathing. Though for someone like me, I find it kind of joyous to be absolutely lost in the wilderness surrounded by frightening creatures.
Another problem that is seen is that the AI charge out and attack a dragon or a vampire (provided you have installed Dawnguard onto your game) and this you will notice quite quickly sometimes the shopkeepers and critical carriers of quests are suicidally brave, for going their homes, and instead wanting to use their wimpy knives and clubs to beat up a dragon or any hostile creature that enters the village. This probably the worst bit of the game. As sometimes those critical npcs stop entire quest chains. And resulting in a mission failed. And you do hope for a quick save from before because losing an npc, especially a shopkeeper is the most frustrating thing in all of skyrim.


Rating:
Overall this game which I have tedious calculated the score from my own personal enjoyment, bugs, artistic direction, mechanics observations, gameplay liking, and story liking, I give this game a prominent 8.6. A score which it deserves. Though this is not a bad thing this game is definitely worth the buy. Though you might get annoyed from time to time from the gamebreaking bugs. Meanwhile I will be on my adventure and killing dragons.

This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2015/07/18 02:24:39


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Overall, I think it's a good piece, and only a few minor wording errors, or turns of phrase that could be better worded, or more fleshed out that I would try and edit or fix.
   
Made in nz
Heroic Senior Officer




New Zealand

I didnt enjoy this game at all.

I loved Oblivion a bit too much, but this game just sucked for me from the get go.

In fact, im gonna buy Oblivion tomorrow. I miss that game.

Was a good read though.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






I believe one of the benefits is extensive modding.

you can add a TON IIRC.

Also macho man randy savage dragons



Oooooh yeahhh

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Predator mod is best mod

   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el




If you play on console, then the left and right buttons match your left and right hands.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

nomotog wrote:
If you play on console, then the left and right buttons match your left and right hands.


Yeah that I found interesting. It felt very natural to me to play this game. Hence why I gave such a high score.

The game felt very natural to play, so much so that I continue to play it.

I might do a review of Hotline Miami and Prince of Persia Sometime.

But you guys should compile a list of mods I should try. I have gotten quite a few XD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Swastakowey wrote:
I didnt enjoy this game at all.

I loved Oblivion a bit too much, but this game just sucked for me from the get go.

In fact, im gonna buy Oblivion tomorrow. I miss that game.

Was a good read though.


It is an interesting game. There is a lot not to like about the game.

At first I hated it. Then I replayed it as a designer and enjoyed the crap out of it.

Because I felt like I needed a new game.

I got the legendary edition just to let everyone else know. I bought it during the steam sales

And I have not regretted it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Desubot wrote:
I believe one of the benefits is extensive modding.

you can add a TON IIRC.

Also macho man randy savage dragons



Oooooh yeahhh


Yeah the entire game just felt incomplete to me, but damn I do not regret purchasing it.

I mean I docked points only on sound and story.

Everything else I found quite enthralling. It was mostly nitpicks. I really felt like it was very well done, and was executed in such a way that those bugs really didn't break it as badly.

I mean the sound is horrible and the simplest fix is to not play with sound.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/25 00:21:49


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
Veteran ORC







Does throwing names at players early on confuse players or does it get them interested in what is going on and potentially lead them down a certain path right off the bat?

Hearing "Ulfric Von Lichenstein is fighting the Imperial Bastards" while about to be killed by the Imperials right off the bat very much gave me a "Screw you guys, I'm helping the Stormcloaks" feel.

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Slarg232 wrote:
Does throwing names at players early on confuse players or does it get them interested in what is going on and potentially lead them down a certain path right off the bat?

Hearing "Ulfric Von Lichenstein is fighting the Imperial Bastards" while about to be killed by the Imperials right off the bat very much gave me a "Screw you guys, I'm helping the Stormcloaks" feel.


Well, at the beginning of a game, you see hey who are these guys? The player who has never played or heard of it. Doesn't know who is who.

If you introduce it slowly and not throw thirty names at the player it doesn't garner interest.

It only confuses them all.

The first 15 minutes of skyrim are a complete bore.

If you introduce it slowly by having a character talk about it, what the mission is about or something like that you introduce it.

In Halo:Combat Evolved for example the first 15 minutes you don't fight. You merely run the feth away. It doesn't just drop you into the combat, it shows you who the threat is. At first you are like who is the covenant but someone explains it to you through action.

Then you are introduced to that enemy. And you meet the characters on this ship.

It sets the scene and the mod rapidly and is far more effective.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/25 11:55:47


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





somewhere in the northern side of the beachball

Honestly skyrim is a really bad game.

Pretty much every aspect of the game is flawed in some way.

Actions of the player don't matter at all (guards have new clothing, whoope de doo) Core gameplay is extremely dull and there is no story apart from "hey fed ex guy deliver this item #2538".

If the combat wasn't so dull or the story be so uninteresting the game might have a chance. Level design sucks too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/25 12:08:21


Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.

If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 illuknisaa wrote:
Honestly skyrim is a really bad game.

Pretty much every aspect of the game is flawed in some way.

Actions of the player don't matter at all (guards have new clothing, whoope de doo) Core gameplay is extremely dull and there is no story apart from "hey fed ex guy deliver this item #2538".

If the combat wasn't so dull or the story be so uninteresting the game might have a chance. Level design sucks too.


What?

Hahahaha. I thought the level design was ambitious.

Its not a really bad game. ITs actually quite good.

The core gameplay was interesting, and dynamic and changed overtime according to your skills.

IT felt quite fun to kill dragons.

And that that bit is not gameplay. I considered that part of the story. I didn't think it was a horrible or a bad game.

I have played bad games, skyrim is well polished compared to them. It just felt incomplete to me. Like the designers wanted to put more into it.

I think the level design is one of its strengths,

But their wall detection needs work. And that happens in lots of games.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
Veteran ORC







 Asherian Command wrote:
 Slarg232 wrote:
Does throwing names at players early on confuse players or does it get them interested in what is going on and potentially lead them down a certain path right off the bat?

Hearing "Ulfric Von Lichenstein is fighting the Imperial Bastards" while about to be killed by the Imperials right off the bat very much gave me a "Screw you guys, I'm helping the Stormcloaks" feel.


Well, at the beginning of a game, you see hey who are these guys? The player who has never played or heard of it. Doesn't know who is who.

If you introduce it slowly and not throw thirty names at the player it doesn't garner interest.

It only confuses them all.

The first 15 minutes of skyrim are a complete bore.

If you introduce it slowly by having a character talk about it, what the mission is about or something like that you introduce it.

In Halo:Combat Evolved for example the first 15 minutes you don't fight. You merely run the feth away. It doesn't just drop you into the combat, it shows you who the threat is. At first you are like who is the covenant but someone explains it to you through action.

Then you are introduced to that enemy. And you meet the characters on this ship.

It sets the scene and the mod rapidly and is far more effective.


1) Every Elder Scrolls game sets you up as a prisoner right from the git go; it was no different in Oblivion with the Emperor, Blades, Nine Divines, Cyrodil, and all of that that was thrown at you within five minutes.

2) Halo was establishing a new IP. Skyrim was not.

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Just ordered parts for a new modern pc this week (my current one is 8+ years old). I'm looking forward to playing Skyrim on pc with access to all the mods that compensate for Skyrims weaknesses.

The Civil War in particular. I want to really,feel like one soldier in an army, participating in mass battles and a dynamic war with the front lines and territory shifting back and forth. There's a cool mod that does this which I saw w couple yeArs ago.

The console version suffers from weaknesses and flaws that pc modders have been fixing for years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/25 14:45:11


 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Just ordered parts for a new modern pc this week (my current one is 8+ years old). I'm looking forward to playing Skyrim on pc with access to all the mods that compensate for Skyrims weaknesses.

The Civil War in particular. I want to really,feel like one soldier in an army, participating in mass battles and a dynamic war with the front lines and territory shifting back and forth. There's a cool mod that does this which I saw w couple years ago.

The console version suffers from weaknesses and flaws that pc modders have been fixing for years.


yeah there is also patrol mods where there are sometimes engagements between stormcloaks and imperials.
There is also a mod that has dragons come more often.

Also there is another mod which allows you spend dragon souls on perks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Slarg232 wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 Slarg232 wrote:
Does throwing names at players early on confuse players or does it get them interested in what is going on and potentially lead them down a certain path right off the bat?

Hearing "Ulfric Von Lichenstein is fighting the Imperial Bastards" while about to be killed by the Imperials right off the bat very much gave me a "Screw you guys, I'm helping the Stormcloaks" feel.


Well, at the beginning of a game, you see hey who are these guys? The player who has never played or heard of it. Doesn't know who is who.

If you introduce it slowly and not throw thirty names at the player it doesn't garner interest.

It only confuses them all.

The first 15 minutes of skyrim are a complete bore.

If you introduce it slowly by having a character talk about it, what the mission is about or something like that you introduce it.

In Halo:Combat Evolved for example the first 15 minutes you don't fight. You merely run the feth away. It doesn't just drop you into the combat, it shows you who the threat is. At first you are like who is the covenant but someone explains it to you through action.

Then you are introduced to that enemy. And you meet the characters on this ship.

It sets the scene and the mod rapidly and is far more effective.


1) Every Elder Scrolls game sets you up as a prisoner right from the git go; it was no different in Oblivion with the Emperor, Blades, Nine Divines, Cyrodil, and all of that that was thrown at you within five minutes.

2) Halo was establishing a new IP. Skyrim was not.


Yes but you need to catter to a new audience when ever you start a game.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/25 15:48:32


From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
Veteran ORC







Not if it's the No. 1 RPG in the Western Hemisphere, you don't......

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





somewhere in the northern side of the beachball

 Asherian Command wrote:
 illuknisaa wrote:
Honestly skyrim is a really bad game.

Pretty much every aspect of the game is flawed in some way.

Actions of the player don't matter at all (guards have new clothing, whoope de doo) Core gameplay is extremely dull and there is no story apart from "hey fed ex guy deliver this item #2538".

If the combat wasn't so dull or the story be so uninteresting the game might have a chance. Level design sucks too.

Spoiler:

What?

Hahahaha. I thought the level design was ambitious.

Its not a really bad game. ITs actually quite good.

The core gameplay was interesting, and dynamic and changed overtime according to your skills.

IT felt quite fun to kill dragons.

And that that bit is not gameplay. I considered that part of the story. I didn't think it was a horrible or a bad game.

I have played bad games, skyrim is well polished compared to them. It just felt incomplete to me. Like the designers wanted to put more into it.

I think the level design is one of its strengths,

But their wall detection needs work. And that happens in lots of games.


By level design I mean design of dungeon from a gameplay standpoint. Pretty much every dungeon is just one straight corridor with zero support for playing a mage or a thief.
Every dungeon offers no alternate paths and consists of mid sized rooms which of very little for any kind of support for ranged gameplay.

I could live with the linear dungeons if it weren't for the ultra stupid "RNG" quest locations. Barkeeps near riverwood just love giving that quest to kill bandit lord #216 in embershard mine. Atleast in call of duty you don't have to repeat the same quest over and over again.

As you level up the game gets even more tedious due to the level scaling. Once you hit around 35-40lvl all your opponents consists of drauger murderdeathlords and dragons which are not hard to kill but it might take few years to chisel that bloated hp bar. The last mission consisted of nothing but drauger overlords and to make things worse I had decided to try a destruction mage build (you can max everything up without thinking).

Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.

If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. 
   
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 Slarg232 wrote:
Not if it's the No. 1 RPG in the Western Hemisphere, you don't......


If your introducing a world you have to go slightly slower.

You have to reintroduce it. That is a common part of game design in order for it to be able to be sold to a larger audience.

It needs to be slower to introduce what is going on.

You can't just introduce a setting with out setting up the world.

You want to reach the largest demographic possible not the smallest one. If you want to catter to a bigger audience introduce the world and ensure it is explained.

By level design I mean design of dungeon from a gameplay standpoint. Pretty much every dungeon is just one straight corridor with zero support for playing a mage or a thief.
Every dungeon offers no alternate paths and consists of mid sized rooms which of very little for any kind of support for ranged gameplay.


Thus far I have seen certain dunegons that are rare that do offer that. And those are usually the best dungeons.

As you level up the game gets even more tedious due to the level scaling. Once you hit around 35-40lvl all your opponents consists of drauger murderdeathlords and dragons which are not hard to kill but it might take few years to chisel that bloated hp bar. The last mission consisted of nothing but drauger overlords and to make things worse I had decided to try a destruction mage build (you can max everything up without thinking).

Agreed

Its a problem but I stopped caring after a bit, and did more than just bandit missions. I just explored.

I could live with the linear dungeons if it weren't for the ultra stupid "RNG" quest locations. Barkeeps near riverwood just love giving that quest to kill bandit lord #216 in embershard mine. Atleast in call of duty you don't have to repeat the same quest over and over again.


I disagree because thus far I have yet to have the same location in a quest. Maybe it is bad luck.

Thus far the enemies have been quite diverse. Sometimes it is a witch cult sometimes not.

I can tell you are quite bitter about playing it.

The best way to play a game is to come in with no expectations.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
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 Slarg232 wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
 Slarg232 wrote:
Does throwing names at players early on confuse players or does it get them interested in what is going on and potentially lead them down a certain path right off the bat?

Hearing "Ulfric Von Lichenstein is fighting the Imperial Bastards" while about to be killed by the Imperials right off the bat very much gave me a "Screw you guys, I'm helping the Stormcloaks" feel.


Well, at the beginning of a game, you see hey who are these guys? The player who has never played or heard of it. Doesn't know who is who.

If you introduce it slowly and not throw thirty names at the player it doesn't garner interest.

It only confuses them all.

The first 15 minutes of skyrim are a complete bore.

If you introduce it slowly by having a character talk about it, what the mission is about or something like that you introduce it.

In Halo:Combat Evolved for example the first 15 minutes you don't fight. You merely run the feth away. It doesn't just drop you into the combat, it shows you who the threat is. At first you are like who is the covenant but someone explains it to you through action.

Then you are introduced to that enemy. And you meet the characters on this ship.

It sets the scene and the mod rapidly and is far more effective.


1) Every Elder Scrolls game sets you up as a prisoner right from the git go; it was no different in Oblivion with the Emperor, Blades, Nine Divines, Cyrodil, and all of that that was thrown at you within five minutes.

2) Halo was establishing a new IP. Skyrim was not.


I think oblivion had a better opening. Your always in control and you get started playing in tutorial right away.

Oh and then extra credits did a video just on the opening of skyrim. iI's neat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpddXJJLhPY
   
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I think oblivion had a better opening. Your always in control and you get started playing in tutorial right away.

Oh and then extra credits did a video just on the opening of skyrim. iI's neat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpddXJJLhPY


Yep basically. It is not a great beginning and it really doesn't help the game in anyway shape or form to convey to the player he reality of the situation. It is a common mistake in games.

You need the first 15 minutes to be crucial.

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
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Skyrim has a very effective beginning because it is a game about exploring a setting. This will be a surprise to many players (including some devs), who are used to story-driven games generally. A lot of players seem to think "RPG" means "strong story." Skyrim is simply not that kind of game.

Immersion is crucial to grokking Skyrim on a conceptual level. The game therefore requires the player to sit still for a few moments while the setting is established around you as opposed to being presented in a cut scene. This can be frustrating precisely because, unlike when you are passively watching an intro cut scene, you are playing Skyrim right from the start. Yes, even though you can barely move.

This frustration becomes part of immersion -- you cannot move because you are a bound prisoner. As a player sitting in a living room, you are thinking -- why am I a prisoner? where am I being taken? how can I escape? Which of course is exactly what your character would be thinking about. This correspondence between out-of-game and in-game experience is a great example of immersion.

As the set piece continues, Skyrim introduces the player to the key setting conflicts with vivid roleplay experiences, such as going from helplessly awaiting execution to making a choice to turn on your would-be executioners or join them defending the town. By the time the intro is over, you probably already have some feelings about the Empire and the Stormcloaks. You are also probably pretty impressed by dragons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/25 16:36:54


   
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 Asherian Command wrote:
I think oblivion had a better opening. Your always in control and you get started playing in tutorial right away.

Oh and then extra credits did a video just on the opening of skyrim. iI's neat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpddXJJLhPY


Yep basically. It is not a great beginning and it really doesn't help the game in anyway shape or form to convey to the player he reality of the situation. It is a common mistake in games.

You need the first 15 minutes to be crucial.


Oh it is way way too common in games and I think it is getting worse. Tutorial are getting longer and longer well the game is pushed back farther and farther. It drives me up the wall when I play open world games because they aren't any fun until you get freedom.
   
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Chicago, Illinois

 Manchu wrote:
Skyrim has a very effective beginning because it is a game about exploring a setting. This will be a surprise to many players (including some devs), who are used to story-driven games generally. A lot of players seem to think "RPG" means "strong story." Skyrim is simply not that kind of game.

Immersion is crucial to grokking Skyrim on a conceptual level. The game therefore requires the player to sit still for a few moments while the setting is established around you as opposed to being presented in a cut scene. This can be frustrating precisely because, unlike when you are passively watching an intro cut scene, you are playing Skyrim right from the start. Yes, even though you can barely move.

This frustration becomes part of immersion -- you cannot move because you are a bound prisoner. As a player sitting in a living room, you are thinking -- why am I a prisoner? where am I being taken? how can I escape? Which of course is exactly what your character would be thinking about. This correspondence between out-of-game and in-game experience is a great example of immersion.

As the set piece continues, Skyrim introduces the player to the key setting conflicts with vivid roleplay experiences, such as going from helplessly awaiting execution to making a choice to turn on your would-be executioners or join them defending the town. By the time the intro is over, you probably already have some feelings about the Empire and the Stormcloaks. You are also probably pretty impressed by dragons.


Yes but the introduction to these things is just rushed this is a whole new vocabulary.

Adding simple things as just you getting captured would quite a bit of depth, At the beginning you are free to roam around. Then you get captured,

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
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nomotog wrote:
Tutorial are getting longer and longer well the game is pushed back farther and farther.
Morrowind basically dumps you into its world. This was completely overwhelming. I had never played anything like it before and it really put me off because it was so confusing and intimidating. Oblivion did a much better job and Skyrim further refined that.

FO3 is probably the best example of all but it has a much more personal perspective than any Elder Scrolls game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/25 16:49:13


   
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 Manchu wrote:
nomotog wrote:
Tutorial are getting longer and longer well the game is pushed back farther and farther.
Morrowind basically dumps you into its world. This was completely overwhelming. I had never played anything like it before and it really put me off because it was so confusing and intimidating. Oblivion did a much better job and Skyrim further refined that.

FO3 is probably the best example of all but it has a much more personal perspective than any Elder Scrolls game.


Yeah seriously....

"Go to this town and talk to this person".

"Ok..... which way was that town? I'll head North, that sounds good. Death Mountain? What's that?"

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 Asherian Command wrote:
Adding simple things as just you getting captured would quite a bit of depth, At the beginning you are free to roam around. Then you get captured,
What you are suggesting here is illusion of choice. If X is certain to happen to my character, then nothing I do as a player concerning X really matters. It is therefore better to skip straight to X. You cannot be both "free to roam around" and certain to be captured.

Dragon Age 2 is basically 100% illusion of choice, for example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/25 17:00:37


   
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 Manchu wrote:
nomotog wrote:
Tutorial are getting longer and longer well the game is pushed back farther and farther.
Morrowind basically dumps you into its world. This was completely overwhelming. I had never played anything like it before and it really put me off because it was so confusing and intimidating. Oblivion did a much better job and Skyrim further refined that.

FO3 is probably the best example of all but it has a much more personal perspective than any Elder Scrolls game.


I am half tempted make a thread just on the topic of game tutorials. It is such a rich topic.

Fallout 3 was maybe the best of all of them because of all the story and setting you absorbed in the process. You also felt like you were still playing the game, making choices and everything, You weren't just restricted to looking around.
   
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Chicago, Illinois

 Slarg232 wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
nomotog wrote:
Tutorial are getting longer and longer well the game is pushed back farther and farther.
Morrowind basically dumps you into its world. This was completely overwhelming. I had never played anything like it before and it really put me off because it was so confusing and intimidating. Oblivion did a much better job and Skyrim further refined that.

FO3 is probably the best example of all but it has a much more personal perspective than any Elder Scrolls game.


Yeah seriously....

"Go to this town and talk to this person".

"Ok..... which way was that town? I'll head North, that sounds good. Death Mountain? What's that?"


You could say that about Skyrim too. There are certain areas that just didn't make sense.

I have only murdered one woman in all of skyrim because I entered her house. (The witch in the forest.)

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
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nomotog wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
nomotog wrote:
Tutorial are getting longer and longer well the game is pushed back farther and farther.
Morrowind basically dumps you into its world. This was completely overwhelming. I had never played anything like it before and it really put me off because it was so confusing and intimidating. Oblivion did a much better job and Skyrim further refined that.

FO3 is probably the best example of all but it has a much more personal perspective than any Elder Scrolls game.


I am half tempted make a thread just on the topic of game tutorials. It is such a rich topic.

Fallout 3 was maybe the best of all of them because of all the story and setting you absorbed in the process. You also felt like you were still playing the game, making choices and everything, You weren't just restricted to looking around.


Blood Dragon had the best tutorial. Fallout's was pretty dece though
   
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 Asherian Command wrote:


You want to reach the largest demographic possible not the smallest one. If you want to catter to a bigger audience introduce the world and ensure it is explained.

By level design I mean design of dungeon from a gameplay standpoint. Pretty much every dungeon is just one straight corridor with zero support for playing a mage or a thief.
Every dungeon offers no alternate paths and consists of mid sized rooms which of very little for any kind of support for ranged gameplay.


Thus far I have seen certain dunegons that are rare that do offer that. And those are usually the best dungeons.

As you level up the game gets even more tedious due to the level scaling. Once you hit around 35-40lvl all your opponents consists of drauger murderdeathlords and dragons which are not hard to kill but it might take few years to chisel that bloated hp bar. The last mission consisted of nothing but drauger overlords and to make things worse I had decided to try a destruction mage build (you can max everything up without thinking).

Agreed

Its a problem but I stopped caring after a bit, and did more than just bandit missions. I just explored.

I could live with the linear dungeons if it weren't for the ultra stupid "RNG" quest locations. Barkeeps near riverwood just love giving that quest to kill bandit lord #216 in embershard mine. Atleast in call of duty you don't have to repeat the same quest over and over again.


I disagree because thus far I have yet to have the same location in a quest. Maybe it is bad luck.

Thus far the enemies have been quite diverse. Sometimes it is a witch cult sometimes not.



Name one dungeon that isn't linear. Name one dungeon that support something else than "HIT THEM IN THE FACE" -gameplay.

Not caring about ultra poor level scaling doesn't really fix the ultra poor level scaling. "Exploring" is just a fancy way of saying simulating walking.

Pretty much every opponents falls into two categories.
A) They hit you in the face.
B) They shoot you in the face.

Melee attackers never change their tactics, so running around table or a tree will work everytime.
Ranged attackers will never defeat a tree or a large rock so you can just sit back and wait so you can hit them in the face.
If you can't be bothered you can just get yourself godlike gear or type "killall" in the console.

nomotog wrote:


I am half tempted make a thread just on the topic of game tutorials. It is such a rich topic.

Fallout 3 was maybe the best of all of them because of all the story and setting you absorbed in the process. You also felt like you were still playing the game, making choices and everything, You weren't just restricted to looking around.


Fo3 is easily one of the best games ever made.

I'm just joking, it sucks.

Fo3 might have been a decent game if it didn't try to be a serious rpg. When bethesda doesn't try to pretend that their guns are swords their poor gameplay seems like it works but they just had to ruin it with the extremely poor main story. The "makes sense" part never really starts. You just go to these random ass places, skip dialogue from these characters you don't care about and an ending that leaves you with "¿qué?".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/25 19:26:16


Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.

If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. 
   
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RVA

 illuknisaa wrote:
"Exploring" is just a fancy way of saying simulating walking.
Strongly disagree. Exploring is a mode of play (setting your own gameplay priorities) as much as a goal (discovering new things).

   
 
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