Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello, everyone! I posted a prototype to this list about six months ago, and after tweaking it a bit, I wanted to give it a final board review before I commit to buying the models in this list that I don't already own.

Note: I have only played three game of 40k. Circumstances have not been conducive to being able to go get experience.I have read up on 40k related material nearly every day for quite some time. However, I understand that I might be missing what comes with actual play.

This is a foot-slogging army. I don't try to play too many tricks here. I'm throwing bodies at you and I'm throwing more bodies out you. When I run out, I begin throwing even more. Supporting these brave men (because GW doesn't seem to sell women IG infantry) are a LRMBT battery, two Manticores, a level two Primaris Psyker, a couple of Commissars, a Ministorum Priest, all lead by Creed. Here's a breakdown of everything:

HQ

Company Command Squad (210)
- Creed
- Kell

Primaris Psyker (75)
- Mastery Level 2

Commissar (25)

Commissar (25)

Ministorum Priest (25)

Troops

Platoon I (Death Korps of Krieg):

PCS (30)

Infantry Squad (150)
- 30-man combined squad
- Commissar attached

Infantry Squad (60)
- Autocannon

Infantry Squad (60)
- Autocannon

Conscripts (150) (Cadians)
- Full complement
- Commissar attached
- Priest attached

Platoon II (Cadians):

PCS (30)

Infantry Squad (50)

Infantry Squad (75)
- Missile launcher (with flakk)

Infantry Squad (75)
- Missile launcher (with flakk)

Infantry Squad (70)
- Lascannon

Infantry Squad (70)
- Lascannon

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Squadron (480)
- LRBT x3
- Lascannon x3

Manticore (170)
- Heavy Flamer

Manticore (170)
- Heavy Flamer

Grand total: 2000 points

The plan here is pretty simple.

Platoon I: Conscripts soak bullets and tarpit, combined squad follows and pretty much does the same. Both are supported by the other two squads in Platoon I (who uses split-fire on their autocannons).

LRBT Squadron: Follow first wave, utilizing it as a meat shield. Lay down heavy firepower on priority targets. Butter up everything else for second wave.

Platoon II: Second wave: the clean-up crew. Secure objectives, take down flyers, provide anti-armor support.

Manticores: In the rear with the gear. Sole existence is to make life easier for the grunts on the ground. I imagine they'll do their job.

Creed: Lay orders all over the place. Simple enough.

Primaris Psyker: I'm not sure what the most effective way to use him is. I definitely want to have him go Divination. I was consider putting him with the Conscripts just for the sheer number of re-rolls happening, but I'm thinking that he'll have a better chance of surviving with the combined squad. I'd love to hear input, even if it's a completely different idea.

Now, I'm still debating whether or not I want to keep Kell. I really, really don't want Creed to die. However, that 70 point hike is a pain. I can throw in another set of Commissar and Priest or buff my PCSs with that and have some leftovers.

As I'm an inexperienced player, I'd appreciate hearing any and all criticisms. I'd also love to know what armies in particular that this list would do really well against and which would it fare poorly against (with reasoning, if possible).

Thank you very much for your time!

Really, any input at all would be greatly appreciated. I'm also considering dropping Kell to throw in Pask to lead my LRMBTs.

A few things. Pask really is the best HQ in the game right now. Creed is ALOT of points for not a whole lot and Kell is entirely useless. I would absolutely drop at least kell if not both.

I'm not sure the Commissars are worth it in this list. Their main purpose is to allow a 5 man squad to go to ground behind an ADL whilst firing heavy weapons. That isn't present here so Priests seem a better fit. I have no idea why you'd put both in the same unit?

The blob squads don't really seem to be geared to achieve anything. No power weapon spam for CC no special or heavy weapons for ranged damage output. I would change that.

Flakk missiles are horrid for their points never take them. If you want AA get a dedicated AA unit (like Vendettas) or just spam autocannons. For 10 points an autocannon for on average 0.33 S7 hits on a flyer a flakk ML is 25 points for 0.5 S7 hits on a flyer so per 100 point investment you get 3.33 S7 hits from autocannons vs 2 from flakk MLs. Seriously never ever take them.

Having said that you are very short on AT. Manticores are nit efficient AT and 5 Lascannons, 2 MLs and 2 autocannons is not enough at this point level particularly considering 3 of the LCs will have to snap shot most turns. I would get some melta into the blob squads. Or some melta scions and swap all the infantry heavy weapons over to autocannons which would pay for this.

The LRBT is the worst variant now it remained the same points from the previous dex where everything else got significantly cheaper. Also the sponsons took a points drop and as the LRBT has ordnance it can only snapfire them. The best variants are the Punisher, Executioner and Exterminator (followed by the Eradicator). Pask is best as AT in a Punisher with MMs and a LC, an Executioner buddy means you should delete 2 units a turn.

Manticores are poor now, a Death Strike can work (a great deterrent to Serpents firing their shields), but Wyverns are where it is at. They kill their own points worth or just about any infantry on average every turn they fire (a unit of 3 costs 195 points and kills approx ~30 Ork Boyz, ~10 MEQs & ~5 TEQs per volley all of which are about 200+ point units). Drop both Manticores for Wyvern batteries.

The important thing is you have priests with your blobs to give them fearless, Krak grenades or melta bombs work well too if you get CC with a MC or vehicle. I prefer autocannons over lascannons now, its just so hard to roll a 6 when you need to. Plus the ever present wave serpents just laugh at LC, AC strip hull points faster. Popping enemy transports at long range quickly is Kind of a Big Deal for IG.

Other than that I fully agree with flingitnows comments. drop kell and creed. The Master of Ordnance is a bargain at 20 points I always take him, especially in bigger games where he is bound to hit something. If you want to keep your manticores/ LRBTs you will need to bubblewrap them with infantry to protect against pods/deep strikes.

On a more general note, I suggest playing smaller games 500 - 750 until you get more experience. You will literally end up with a massive headache if you play big games too early and even worse will forget to use all your units/special rules ~ believe me I know from experience

Thank you both for the advice. I had no idea I could turn my Punisher (which I mistakenly brought to my first game vs SM) into something useful. Wow. And the Wyverns looks great. Going to hurt the wallet a bit, however. I already own the Manticores.

Alright, I did some heavy editing:

HQ

Company Command Squad (60)

Tank Commander (395)
- Pask (Punisher with MM and LC)
- Executioner

Primaris Psyker (75)
- Mastery Level 2

Primaris Psyker (75)
- Mastery Level 2

Ministorum Priest (25)

Ministorum Priest (25)

Ministorum Priest (25)

Troops

Platoon I:

PCS (45):
- Power weapon

Infantry Squad (350)
- 50-man combined squad
- 5 power weapons
- 5 melta bombs
- Priest attached

Conscripts (150)
- Full complement
- Priest attached

Platoon II:

PCS (30)

Infantry Squad (250)
- Priest attached

Heavy Weapons Squad (75)
- Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad (75)
- Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad (75)
- Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad (75)
- Autocannons

Heavy Support

Wyvern Battery (195)
- Full complement

Grand total: 2000 points

Is this going to be worthwhile? Did I overkill with the autocannons? I'm not exactly sold on having two 50-man blobs plus the 50-man conscript blob, but I'm unsure how to effectively use blobbing. Any insight?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I took your word about the LCs rolling snapshots, but I was under the impression that since LRBTs are Heavy, all weapons they fire count as though they were stationary, therefore allowing the LCs to utilize the full BS. Am I incorrect here?

Looks quite solid. I would get sponsons on the Executioner. Remember PE (which you get from Pask's trait) allows you to reroll gets hot and the scatter on the blasts (as well as rerolling 1s to wound) it is a brutal combo. Pask's main job is AT and AMC, I've seen him 1 shot an Imperial Knight with his Punisher Cannon alone and the following turn put 5 HPs on another Knight killing it whilst SNAP SHOTTING!

My advice is power axes on the Sergeants you don't care that you swing last you have 45 guys to take wounds for you S4 Ap2 with 20 attacks on the charge is pretty good and add in rerolls to hit and to wound and you're going to do a lot of damage.

Though I'm not sure why you have 2 Psykers? You don't have much that needs prescience as both blobs have hatred from the priests, Pask's squad has PE, Wyverns are twinlinked. The non-power weapon blob could drop to 40 and take 4 Autocannons, drop the Preist for a Commissar and the Psyker for an ADL and those sponsons mentioned above. That gives you a total of 16 autocannons which is a decent amount at this points level. Deploy them with the HWS and Artillery behind the ADL giving cover anyone shoots at them just go to ground for 2+ cover.

As for the LRBT it is heavy. However the main gun is ordnance that if you fire ordnance all other weapons are snap shotting regardless of how far you have moved. It is what makes it such a bizarre choice that the only Russes not to get significant points drops were the Ordnance ones which took a bit of a nerf in the codex (the demolisher went up 5 points where for example the Executioner went down 40 points). So I would largely stick to the other variants I mentioned.

Yeah Pask is incredible. It's a shame because he does overshadow the fun of Creed. Creed should be taken at 2000 pts and up so he could be safe here. Definitely agree with FlingitNow on the power axes for the blob sergeants.

As far as tanks, The Leman Russ Executioner is great with PC sponsons.

Thank you so much. I'll go ahead and make those changes.

I do, however, wonder what the plan with an ADL would be. Do I really want a 40-man blob stuck behind a wall the whole game? And I'm not being snarky. I'm genuinely curious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, which sponsons are you referring to? MMs or PCs?

If you take a CCS in the same cad pask cant be warlord due to chain of command?

Pask is not a Commissar so is free to be Warlord.

Specifically, Pask does not have the Chain of Command rule, therefore, he is not bound to it.

No Vox in the guardsmen units? For shame.

Indeed. If you'd taken commissars rather than priests, then Vox units aren't so important (the one edge a commissar provides is his Ld9 for orders), but if you've got a couple of command squads floating loose, then vox-casters for Front Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! or similar is genuinely good.

Pask has decent Anti-tank abilities from short range. The big weakness of this list is heavy antitank at long range. If you face two or three decent tanks dug into cover who decline to get close, you don't really have the ability to hurt them with anything other than Pask's lascannon - engaging them with the sponsons and the punisher means advancing to the middle of the board - which means coming out of cover and being a massive target.

The worst case example for this is something like a tank-heavy imperial guard army, a knight household of mostly paladins, or a force with multiple land raiders.

Predator-based marine armoured forces are less of an issue; if your autocannons can get in on the action, especially with Bring It Down!, I wouldn't get too worked up.

But AV14 tanks, lords of war or fortifications with decent heavy weapons could leave you with a serious issue.

I'd suggest trying to up one or more heavy weapons teams to lascannons or missile launchers, if you can find the points.

Certainly the platoon command squad's power sword can go. 5 guardsmen are NOT going to win an assault without flamers, advisors, something, regardless of the fact that you've payed half the squad's points value to give the lieutenant a shiny stick.

If you are happy with using HWS and don't bother with them being the squishiest heavy weapons in the game, I'd swap half the autocannons with lascannons. You need anti-heavy armor weapons too while autocannons are good against AV12/flyers or even infantry (not MEQs though).

Zsolt wrote:
If you are happy with using HWS and don't bother with them being the squishiest heavy weapons in the game, I'd swap half the autocannons with lascannons. You need anti-heavy armor weapons too while autocannons are good against AV12/flyers or even infantry (not MEQs though).

Because they are Bs3, fulfilling the anti-light mech AA job is all HWS are good for. They become really quite expensive if you put lascannons on them. High grade shots for IG should be on vehicles or Vets. Platoons are for volume fire.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Zsolt wrote:
If you are happy with using HWS and don't bother with them being the squishiest heavy weapons in the game, I'd swap half the autocannons with lascannons. You need anti-heavy armor weapons too while autocannons are good against AV12/flyers or even infantry (not MEQs though).

Because they are Bs3, fulfilling the anti-light mech AA job is all HWS are good for. They become really quite expensive if you put lascannons on them. High grade shots for IG should be on vehicles or Vets. Platoons are for volume fire.

Vehicles still have BS3 and they lack anti heavy tank firepower too. If you put down 2-3 HWS with lascannons, they will hurt something for sure. You can also add prescience and ignore cover/tank hunter too.

Those 3 HWS are more points than Pask add in the Psyker and command squad and you're over 400 points. The tanks you take good firepower on are Bs4 or twin linked and are survivable unlike the HWS. 105 points for a unit that puts leas than 2 lascannon hits on something a turn and dies to 3 S6 wounds is not a good investment.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Those 3 HWS are more points than Pask add in the Psyker and command squad and you're over 400 points. The tanks you take good firepower on are Bs4 or twin linked and are survivable unlike the HWS. 105 points for a unit that puts leas than 2 lascannon hits on something a turn and dies to 3 S6 wounds is not a good investment.

Please give me some example, I really need high range AT firepower. You can only have 1 Pask, it costs 400+ points, and has a range of 24" (where he will ruin anythings day). Don't get me wrong, Pask and his plasma buddy is my favorite IG unit, but that's only a single squad. The supposed to be AT LR, the vanquisher has a cool range, and pretty mediocre S and AP for a tank hunter (while armorbane is wonderful). You can add lascannons (much less range, but still enough for most tables), and multi-meltas (24" again, and then it's only a krak missile, which is awful for AT), but you need to go closer and closer to use each. So when Vanquisher really shines as AT, you are at 12", and you are shooting at BS3.

I'm really looking for answers here (preferably non-FW), so please share.

Unfortunately AM don't have reliable viable long range anti heavy mech firepower. Not many armies do (in fact not any now Ravagers got nerfed for DE). So your options are Vanquishers with lascannons on Tank Commanders- if you're not Bs4 you don't want a 1 shot turret. Deathstrikes (though they are best for making Serpents think twice about firing their shields), Pask, Melta Vets and Vendettas, perhaps Scions with melta too. That is about it for reliable anti-heavy mech that is viable.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Looks quite solid. I would get sponsons on the Executioner. Remember PE (which you get from Pask's trait) allows you to reroll gets hot and the scatter on the blasts (as well as rerolling 1s to wound) it is a brutal combo. Pask's main job is AT and AMC, I've seen him 1 shot an Imperial Knight with his Punisher Cannon alone and the following turn put 5 HPs on another Knight killing it whilst SNAP SHOTTING!

I think Pask's preferred enemy does not give you rerolls on scatter. Can you point me to a section/page on the BRB where this is stated?

In the blast rules under rerolls and scatter. Check against the gets hot and rerolls wording.

 FlingitNow wrote:
In the blast rules under rerolls and scatter. Check against the gets hot and rerolls wording.

That's for full re-rolls only. Preferred enemy only re-rolls 1s.Also the Preferred enemy USR doesn't say a word about blast nor scatter.

What do you mean by full rerolls? Prescience is only reroll misses for instance as is twin linked. I'm guessing neither of them count either? Note how the wording is the same for Gets Hot are you claiming you don't get to reroll that either? Because the rules disagree with you.

 FlingitNow wrote:
What do you mean by full rerolls? Prescience is only reroll misses for instance as is twin linked. I'm guessing neither of them count either? Note how the wording is the same for Gets Hot are you claiming you don't get to reroll that either? Because the rules disagree with you.

The rules disagree with what you think I said, not what I actually did said.

Prescience and twin-link gives you a proper re-roll, Preferred enemy gives you a half assed re-roll. Prescience and twin-link re-rolls to hits, scatter and get's hot, while Preferred enemy re-rolls of 1s on to hit, 1s on get's hot, but not scatter (re-rolling 1s on scatter would make it worse for you, so no point in that).

Where do you get the definition of "proper reroll" where does the blasts and rerolls section require a "proper reroll" as opposed to just a reroll like the book says.

Why are you claiming you get rerolls on the Gets Hot but jot on the scatter when the qualifier is the same? You can't have it both ways.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Where do you get the definition of "proper reroll" where does the blasts and rerolls section require a "proper reroll" as opposed to just a reroll like the book says.

Why are you claiming you get rerolls on the Gets Hot but jot on the scatter when the qualifier is the same? You can't have it both ways.

BRB USR section, Blast, Blast wapons and re-rolls. "If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls To Hit and chooses to..."

USR Gets hot, Gets hot and re-rolls: "If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls to hit (including ...BS6+...twin-link...), ... it may also re-roll Gets hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit.

USR Preferred enemy: just read it.

So you roll a couple of 1s for gets hot, and for preferred enemy, you re-roll those ones, because it only allows you to re-roll 1s. You roll a couple of 1s for scatter and you can re-roll that too, because that's what preferred enemy gives you. You just don't do that, because you don't want more scatter.

So you roll a couple of 1s for gets hot, and for preferred enemy, you re-roll those ones, because it only allows you to re-roll 1s. You roll a couple of 1s for scatter and you can re-roll that too, because that's what preferred enemy gives you. You just don't do that, because you don't want more scatter.

So you never reroll for twinlinked or Prescience? Because with those you only reroll misses and the scatter dice doesn't have a miss only a hit and a scatter. Also the rules you stated show you don't reroll 1s as the rules tell you to instead reroll both dice and the scatter dice...

 FlingitNow wrote:

So you roll a couple of 1s for gets hot, and for preferred enemy, you re-roll those ones, because it only allows you to re-roll 1s. You roll a couple of 1s for scatter and you can re-roll that too, because that's what preferred enemy gives you. You just don't do that, because you don't want more scatter.

So you never reroll for twinlinked or Prescience? Because with those you only reroll misses and the scatter dice doesn't have a miss only a hit and a scatter. Also the rules you stated show you don't reroll 1s as the rules tell you to instead reroll both dice and the scatter dice...

This would be much more effective, if you'd try to communicate instead of just trolling. Read Blast USR in BRB, you'll get your answer, just like I wrote on the above post.

No I have read the rule. You are adding parts to the rule. The rulebook requires a reroll on to hit to get a reroll on blasts. Preferred enemy gives a reroll on the condition of you rolling a 1 to hit, twinlinked gives a reroll on the condition of you roll a miss to hit. Why are you treating them differently what rules are you using that tells you to do so?

 FlingitNow wrote:
No I have read the rule. You are adding parts to the rule. The rulebook requires a reroll on to hit to get a reroll on blasts. Preferred enemy gives a reroll on the condition of you rolling a 1 to hit, twinlinked gives a reroll on the condition of you roll a miss to hit. Why are you treating them differently what rules are you using that tells you to do so?

Then read a bit more rules. Twin-linked USR, Twin-linked and blast weapons section. Read it. This is the one that let's you re-roll scatter for blast weapons. There is no such entry in preferred enemy USR, and they aren't the same effect neither. Twin-link let's you re-roll failed to-hit, and Preferred enemy let's you re-roll 1s on to-hits. That's a pretty big difference.

The problematic part is Divination primaris Prescience. It gives you "the target unit can re-roll all failed To Hit rolls." While it gives you the same effect as twin-linked (re-roll to hit), it doesn't have the explanation for blast ond template weapons as twin-linked has. Common sense would say that GW was sloppy as usual while wording this rule, and Prescience gives you the same effect as twin-linked, and you can also re-roll blast scatter and template to-wounds, but there are a couple of TFGs out there, who'll have an hour long conversation on RAW.