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I know this may seem incredibly obviously skewed towards the Custodian Armor. However, in the book Outcast Dead, a World Eater punches through the breastplate of a Custodian he is duelling and rips the Custodian's spine out through the front of the Custodian's Armor. I think the book's explanation is that the World Eater was just angry enough. Does this seem a little too far-fetched?

There is so much inconsistency with fluff and in game rules that stuff really makes no sense.

For example, you can charge thru walls, immobilized vehicles can still jink, you can not use a flamer or blast template on invisible units, a biker walking his bike 1" into a bush can suffer a dangerous terrain, etc...

Also i am in an argument with people who say FW units is absolutely no more powerful than gw units.

 Filch wrote:
There is so much inconsistency with fluff and in game rules that stuff really makes no sense.

For example, you can charge thru walls, immobilized vehicles can still jink, you can not use a flamer or blast template on invisible units, a biker walking his bike 1" into a bush can suffer a dangerous terrain, etc...

Also i am in an argument with people who say FW units is absolutely no more powerful than gw units.

and they're absolutly right. yes SOME FW units are powerful, but so are SOME GW units

 Filch wrote:
There is so much inconsistency with fluff and in game rules that stuff really makes no sense.

For example, you can charge thru walls, immobilized vehicles can still jink, you can not use a flamer or blast template on invisible units, a biker walking his bike 1" into a bush can suffer a dangerous terrain, etc...

Also i am in an argument with people who say FW units is absolutely no more powerful than gw units.

But I think that even if on the table, Custodian Armor is pretty good, in the books, it seems even better. So I'm having a purely fluff-based discussion of Custodian Armor.

In short yes. The whole jail break opening to tod was complete nonsense. I kinda enjoyed the rest of it but no, a marine could not punch through custodian armor to de-spine him.

it's possiable the custodes have two types of armor. a military grade "duty armor" and a set of armor that's PURELY ceremonial and utterly useless as actual protection...... *shrugs* that'd really be the only way to explain it

But that custodian was on dangerous duty, guarding the jail containing the crusader host, and other dangerous criminals.

Its a impirial supermax jail.

Tagore had had long enough whilst in prison to study the Custodians armour whilst he had been on his rounds. Everyday the Custodian would come to check on Tagore and everyday Tagore would goad the Custodian into remaining long enough for him to see the armours intricate detail and more importantly, it's weak points.

Maybe?

Tagore had the nails, unlike the World Eater twins, maybe the Custodians spine made him the ANGRIESSSTTT!

All things considered, it's possible, but unlikely. If the World Eater had insane amounts of adrenaline pumping through his veins, then yes, yes he could. You hear stories of people picking up cars when they're hopped up on adrenal fluids, so why shouldn't somebody who can pick up a car WITHOUT adrenaline be able to punch through some awesome armor WITH adrenaline?

Perhaps he went for the joint between plates or something?

I would imagine that armour you can punch through with bare hands (even with astartes physiology) without busting your hand in the process, is not very good armour. Surely if the armour was that weak, bolter rounds would go through it like cardboard?

I always read it as the World Eater punched through a softer section of the abdominal armour - maybe like the cabled bits below the chestplate on space marine armour? That makes more sense than him punching through power armour plate.

Also, rule of awesome was fully in effect during that jailbreak, so there's that too.

OR maybe khorne smiled upon him and went "yes you shall rip out his spine".

its improbable apart from as a plot point to escape the jail ,considering in the HH forgeworld books you can equip marines with special rounds specifically designed to defeat marine Armour as regular bolter rounds aren't as capable

I would imagine that armour you can punch through with bare hands (even with astartes physiology) without busting your hand in the process,

Thats kinda my problem with it, basic physics (I know this is 40k!)
The diameter of a WE's hand bunched into a fist is going to be pretty darn big. The kenetic force needed to punch right through what is in effect a vertical plate of bonded armor is just

-Points out to everyone that to punch through armor and rip out a spine, the World Eater would have made a jab with his hand, not a fist.-

Unless he punches through the armor with a fist, reopens it once inside the body cavity, grabs the spine and yanks, sort of like some bizarre version of a Mortal Kombat kill.

 Ratius wrote:
Unless he punches through the armor with a fist, reopens it once inside the body cavity, grabs the spine and yanks, sort of like some bizarre version of a Mortal Kombat kill.

That is a perfectly normal Fatality. Bizzare would be going in from a 'nother direction.

SirSertile wrote:
I know this may seem incredibly obviously skewed towards the Custodian Armor. However, in the book Outcast Dead, a World Eater punches through the breastplate of a Custodian he is duelling and rips the Custodian's spine out through the front of the Custodian's Armor. I think the book's explanation is that the World Eater was just angry enough. Does this seem a little too far-fetched?

Considering we have other fluff where a single squad of Custodians wipe out an entire company of Thousand Sons (in the Horus Heresy Visions book IIRC), it's probably far fetched.

The idea of flesh, no matter how impressive and genetically tailored, punching through armor plate, is a bit absurd.

That said, 40k authors largely just write whatever they want regardless of how its depicted elsewhere. If the author thinks it'll look cool, despite 100 other stories saying otherwise, they'll do it.

 Vaktathi wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
I know this may seem incredibly obviously skewed towards the Custodian Armor. However, in the book Outcast Dead, a World Eater punches through the breastplate of a Custodian he is duelling and rips the Custodian's spine out through the front of the Custodian's Armor. I think the book's explanation is that the World Eater was just angry enough. Does this seem a little too far-fetched?

Considering we have other fluff where a single squad of Custodians wipe out an entire company of Thousand Sons (in the Horus Heresy Visions book IIRC), it's probably far fetched.

The idea of flesh, no matter how impressive and genetically tailored, punching through armor plate, is a bit absurd.

That said, 40k authors largely just write whatever they want regardless of how its depicted elsewhere. If the author thinks it'll look cool, despite 100 other stories saying otherwise, they'll do it.

Wasn't just a single squad they were on jetbikes.

Which apparently are super effective.

How could you lose access to jetbikes.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
I know this may seem incredibly obviously skewed towards the Custodian Armor. However, in the book Outcast Dead, a World Eater punches through the breastplate of a Custodian he is duelling and rips the Custodian's spine out through the front of the Custodian's Armor. I think the book's explanation is that the World Eater was just angry enough. Does this seem a little too far-fetched?

Considering we have other fluff where a single squad of Custodians wipe out an entire company of Thousand Sons (in the Horus Heresy Visions book IIRC), it's probably far fetched.

The idea of flesh, no matter how impressive and genetically tailored, punching through armor plate, is a bit absurd.

That said, 40k authors largely just write whatever they want regardless of how its depicted elsewhere. If the author thinks it'll look cool, despite 100 other stories saying otherwise, they'll do it.

Wasn't just a single squad they were on jetbikes.

Which apparently are super effective.

How could you lose access to jetbikes.

omnissiah nix machina?

edit for realization...

 Vaktathi wrote:

SirSertile wrote:
I know this may seem incredibly obviously skewed towards the Custodian Armor. However, in the book Outcast Dead, a World Eater punches through the breastplate of a Custodian he is duelling and rips the Custodian's spine out through the front of the Custodian's Armor. I think the book's explanation is that the World Eater was just angry enough. Does this seem a little too far-fetched?

Considering we have other fluff where a single squad of Custodians wipe out an entire company of Thousand Sons (in the Horus Heresy Visions book IIRC), it's probably far fetched.

The idea of flesh, no matter how impressive and genetically tailored, punching through armor plate, is a bit absurd.

That said, 40k authors largely just write whatever they want regardless of how its depicted elsewhere. If the author thinks it'll look cool, despite 100 other stories saying otherwise, they'll do it.

Basically, 1 Custodes = 10 Astartes. So, yeah, that makes sense. They would still take heavy casualties (as Custodes fight individually, like Gladiators, and not as a team), but it still makes sense. Also, You can't compare a World Eater to a Thousand Son. The difference is vast, and i'm amazed that Magnus and the Hulk never became rivals (Hulk smash! Versus intellectual powers activate!). A World Eater Space Marine probably would have had an insane amounts of chemicals dumped into his blood-stream by his own body due to the Butcher's Nails making him hulk out at the slightest provocation, whereas a World Eater would just summon an enchanted Daedric sword and stab the bitch in the back.

I suspect Angron and Magnus never became rivals because they had so little use for one another they just never talked

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect Angron and Magnus never became rivals because they had so little use for one another they just never talked

Makes sense, i guess. Plus, you never really hear of Angorn hating on Psykers.

Calgar beat the Swarmlord to death with his bare hands, so a Custode should be easy pickings for a Marine in a suitably righteous mood.

 dusara217 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect Angron and Magnus never became rivals because they had so little use for one another they just never talked

Makes sense, i guess. Plus, you never really hear of Angorn hating on Psykers.

They always give him migraines and make him bleed from his orifices so I don't think he's spent enough time around them for him to form an opinion.

Calgar beat the Swarmlord to death with his bare hands

Another gak piece of fluff however. Just because its written dosent make it good and or believable :(

 dusara217 wrote:
All things considered, it's possible, but unlikely. If the World Eater had insane amounts of adrenaline pumping through his veins, then yes, yes he could. You hear stories of people picking up cars when they're hopped up on adrenal fluids, so why shouldn't somebody who can pick up a car WITHOUT adrenaline be able to punch through some awesome armor WITH adrenaline?

I guess we could equate adrenaline to butcher's nails on a World Eater. However, it did say that Tagore's Butcher's Nails were more like metallic plates on the back of his neck, and that they were making red sparks. I'm not familiar at all with Pre-Heresy World Eaters, but I don't think that Butcher's Nails took the form of plates. And also, it did say that Tagore killed around 390 before he could be stopped. The book didn't specify what type of men though. (i.e. guardsmen vs space marines)

 Ratius wrote:

Calgar beat the Swarmlord to death with his bare hands

Another gak piece of fluff however. Just because its written dosent make it good and or believable :(

I suspect by "bare hands" they mean "with his power fists" as opposed to with bolters

Afaik the plates hold in the butchers nails implants, effectively the whole back of the cranium is opned up and nasty stuff shoved in. The plates hold them in place.So its possible they were just standard nails.
I have never heard of variations on the nails components or looks barring Angrons which are stated to be not duplicatable and beyond anything ever since power-wise.

Wasn't the World Eater in question corrupted by chaos? Surely the blessing of Khorne would have been sufficient to break the armor.

Only possible way is through some kind of Warp intervention.

People here implying that "being angry" would work, that adrenaline is capable of that, and etc. have a very loose concept of physics and biochemistry.

By to by, if you have ever heard of anyone "lifting" a car or etc. on adrenaline it's either an urban legend or they meant tilting a car. I can tilt a car without adrenaline. That too, is physics, and actually pretty easy for a fit male to do temporarily.