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I like to know and understand why there is really only one right way to build armys. all over the internet on many of fourms they all say if you dont build a army said way your doing it wrong.
Here is two examples
Waves serpent spam with wrigthkingts
Sm biker army with white scares chapter tactic

I think you are misinterpretting the optimum builds as being the only builds. The issue being when people post up army lists onine it often comes with the final question "how can I improve this" to which the most popular answer is always going to lean toward the armies optimum builds, that is to say the way of doing the most damage within thats points llimit. The reason that optimum builds are a thing is because no codex has perfect internal balance, every army has an entry or two who provide more bang for your buck than others, and thus when asking to be directed to the best way to build a list, these come up.

Optimised lists are not the only way to do things, and there are many ways of playing the game that do not involve them, however if asking "how can I improve this list" (essentially, optimise my list for me) people are going to direct you toward the best units for their points value.

Word of mouth. You just went and did the exact same thing to Turtleman because the Internet told you to.

Because thats what the 40k community says is the only right way to build and play ur list.

No there is no one way to play anything it depends on your environment. I believe when advising new players people give the strongest list because without knowing anything about the potential meta that's what will perform the best.

zilka86 wrote:
Because thats what the 40k community says is the only right way to build and play ur list.

That's what you say is the only right way to build and play your list. And the only reason you have for it is "the Internet told me so". Despite the fact that I am here, from the Internet, telling you that your logic is circular and you don't have to go lift lists off of tournament winners to play the game.

zilka86 wrote:
Because thats what the 40k community says is the only right way to build and play ur list.

No it isn't.

zilka86 wrote:
I like to know and understand why there is really only one right way to build armys. all over the internet on many of fourms they all say if you dont build a army said way your doing it wrong.
Here is two examples
Waves serpent spam with wrigthkingts
Sm biker army with white scares chapter tactic

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Before anyone calls me out on being harsh, look at OP's post history. He'll complain about the list process in 40K, not listen to anyone and complain how he's had to sell everything when it got updated.

I mean, I got here from the OP telling someone asking for advice playing Eldar that he had to spam Wave Serpents or go home, so...

zilka, this is the third time you have brought this topic up.
This thread and this are on the exact same topic and were locked.

Furthermore, and I quote "This is my last ?ever of 40k. why is it you can only build a army one kind of way and anything else you do is wrong ." This is from the second linked thread.

Additionally

zilka86 wrote:
I'd like to know and understand why there is really only one right way to build an army. All over the internet on many of the fourms they all say if you don't build an army said way your doing it wrong.
Here are two examples
Wave serpent spam with wraithknights
Sm biker army with white scars chapter tactic

FTFY.

First of yes i asked this befor but i trying not to get the one locked and have more helpful opinions. i have see many a new players wanting to get in to the hobby because of a cool unit but they are told not to take what they find cool but to spam this our that unit because thats the right way to play that arny our this army etc. i just trying to find out why 40k community says you cab only play army a said way that's all. i really sick of people who are new to this hobby build a army because thay find it cool to be told they spent all there money wrong and that's not how you should play army. For example my brother rubs a infantry heavy tau army with only one riptide and people have laughed at him and told him he is playing all wrong many times because he not spaming riptides abd suits he no longer play with any one but me as he feels 40k players are not fun. so explain to me how armies have more then one build

When you go online and ask for the best list, you get a single answer.
It's the combined effort, experience and math from a great amount of players.

If you are playing friends or don't care about winning at tournaments you can do whatever you want.
I have never played the top Necron-lists, but I still manage to win against friends and I am having fun.
For me that is what WH40k is all about.

zilka86 wrote:
First of yes i asked this befor but i trying not to get the one locked and have more helpful opinions. i have see many a new players wanting to get in to the hobby because of a cool unit but they are told not to take what they find cool but to spam this our that unit because thats the right way to play that arny our this army etc. i just trying to find out why 40k community says you cab only play army a said way that's all. i really sick of people who are new to this hobby build a army because thay find it cool to be told they spent all there money wrong and that's not how you should play army. For example my brother rubs a infantry heavy tau army with only one riptide and people have laughed at him and told him he is playing all wrong many times because he not spaming riptides abd suits he no longer play with any one but me as he feels 40k players are not fun. so explain to me how armies have more then one build

I really don't know why you're asking the question if you're not going to listen to the answer. You've asked the Dakka 40k community why the 40k community thinks there's only one army build for each army, the Dakka 40k community has told you that we don't and there are a lot of viable army builds. The question is wrong. Ask a new question.

(For the record there are one hundred and seventy four different Dire Avenger squads considering six different squad sizes and twenty-eight different Exarch builds; I find it exceedingly unlikely that a Codex with (extrapolation, hyperbole, if anyone gets distracted by this word I'm not going to argue about it) millions of different possible builds has exactly one 'optimal' approach)

Because they do?

Im sorry you own the same codicies as we do, have sll the same options available. You know that there is more than one build. This topic is full of people telling you this.

There is no real conspiracy on this one. Nor is it anything of a mystery. The reasoning is rather simple.

Simply put, gw is not all that interested in adequately balancing their games. They see themselves as a model company. Designing tight clean rules is not something they're all that interested in, nor do they see it as a vital component, or important in the game that they produce/sell. The right or the wrong of this is entirely up to your interpretation. But the result you see when you 'push' the game to any degree, Or 'push hard' is that It 'overheats' very easily, and then breaks down.

The internet, and the community can then add to this through play experience and chat..bathe best units are discovered, and debated upon, and things become common knowledge. It can then exacerbates the overheating issues that are inherent in the game.

Now bear in mind, this isn't the only way to play 40k. Plenty do it their way. Plenty use house rules, common understandings, gentle men's agreement, and a co-operative attitude where 'pushing the game to overheating' isn't the point. Then the best list really doesn't apply.

Gw doesn't help, and arguably hinders and impedes, but really, it's up to you to make things 'fit', with your opponents if you don't like how things play out.

zilka86 wrote:
I like to know and understand why there is really only one right way to build armys. all over the internet on many of fourms they all say if you dont build a army said way your doing it wrong.
Here is two examples
Waves serpent spam with wrigthkingts
Sm biker army with white scares chapter tactic

each codex has 1-3 builds that are seen as capable of winning tournaments. These are the lists you see published all the time. Personally I think that skill of the player and knowing how to use a particular list is more important than the list itself. Sometimes though the gods of randomness hate you and you role horribly all day.

On a related note, everyone serious knows what those lists are and are creating counters in their builds for those lists so if you run "the 1337 MEQ list #2" and win locally you will probably lose on the competitive scene.

Sorry, mathed it wrong, there are actually 216 different Dire Avenger squads (forgot to factor in an Exarch with no weapon upgrades).

40k is a spectacularly large knapsack problem with a comically excessive number of solutions. Which solution among those works best depends on your local meta and your collection of models; if there was one 'best' solution it would change every time you figured it out since that solution would dominate the meta and the meta would change so it was no longer the 'best' solution. It's like why it's impossible to understand or predict the stock market perfectly, the act of observing it causes it to change and you have to observe it again.

Anyway, babble aside, if the OP asked a different question ("Can you guys tell me about competitive lists that don't spam X popular model?") I'm sure we could have a more useful and more constructive discussion.

zilka86 wrote:
I like to know and understand why there is really only one right way to build armys. all over the internet on many of fourms they all say if you dont build a army

This is only true for people who need to win games with as little effort as possible. WAAC types, and people who take a dice game as a serious strategic exercise, respectively.

For everyone else, it's not true.

Actually, a good example is Tyranids. The 'one build' had a bunch of Flyrants, Carnifexen, Venom/Malanthropes and Ripper Swarms. And want to know what one of the very highly skilled players brought to a large tournament? A list full of Lictors, which so many Tyranid players wrote off as being bad. That's not 'one build' and guess what? Someone won with it.

Zilka, you have no concept of how 40k is played if you actually believe what you say so please do not spam new player's threads with incorrect assumptions. It actually hurts the community more than anything else. Listen to the people on Dakka that have more experience and actually learn from them. The game will get so much better if you do, I promise.

Yes i understand 40k its basically spam the best stuff if you want to win and if you don't ever want to win take what ever you want. Its just sad that's basically what 40k has become.

zilka86 wrote:
Yes i understand 40k its basically spam the best stuff if you want to win and if you don't ever want to win take what ever you want. Its just sad that's basically what 40k has become.

That's what it's always been. Just the prices are so much higher now.

So when new people ask how to build a army all wikl sat what ever one else say just spam the best and rest sucks and shouldnt even be in codex . i wish i was give this advice be for i got in to this hobby. i lets all new players who ask me about getting in to 40k the truth that in less you run spamy boring armies your never going to win and running any fluff armies is a very bad idea

zilka86 wrote:
So when new people ask how to build a army all wikl sat what ever one else say just spam the best and rest sucks and should even be in codex

The option is to be humiliated by those taking the best options.

Optimum builds tilt the odds in your favour, but that doesnt mean you never win with a different build, simply that it can require more tactical thinking and yes... This is a game of dice so luck.

 Melcavuk wrote:
Optimum builds tilt the odds in your favour, but that doesnt mean you never win with a different build, simply that it can require more tactical thinking and yes... This is a game of dice so luck.

There's a tipping point on that though. There are many builds that can not mathematically damage WS spam, for example.

Just like my brother will no longer play in group again as he is sick of people insulting him because his choice of how he runs his tau army so. So 40k is basically run the best our your a loser and a idiot if you do anything else that's me understanding of 40k community

zilka86 wrote:Its just sad that's basically what 40k has become.

"Become"? It was always this way for people who wanted to win.

If it looks like there's been an increase, it's probably just because there are more of those kinds of people. A function of there being more 40k players in the very least.

zilka86 wrote:truth that in less you run spamy boring armies your never going to win

That's not true either.

List strength is only a part of the game. How your dice roll also determines things (moreso than list strength, I'd argue). Also, just because 40k isn't a serious strategy game doesn't mean that it's no strategy game at all. What you choose to do in the game still matters.

Ailaros wrote:

List strength is only a part of the game. How your dice roll also determines things (moreso than list strength, I'd argue). Also, just because 40k isn't a serious strategy game doesn't mean that it's no strategy game at all. What you choose to do in the game still matters.

Depends on how badly you are outclassed.

zilka86 wrote:
Just like my brother will no longer play in group again as he is sick of people insulting him because his choice of how he runs his tau army so. So 40k is basically run the best our your a loser and a idiot if you do anything else that's me understanding of 40k community

I'm sorry but this is merely a case of needing thicker skin, in life people will pften critique how you do things, that isnt a reason to give up on them. They say his list is suboptimal? Well then when he wins it'll be that much sweeter. If you dislike 40k and its community then perhaps look at other gaming systems, insulting the game and community doesnt fix things.

 Melcavuk wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Just like my brother will no longer play in group again as he is sick of people insulting him because his choice of how he runs his tau army so. So 40k is basically run the best our your a loser and a idiot if you do anything else that's me understanding of 40k community

I'm sorry but this is merely a case of needing thicker skin, in life people will pften critique how you do things, that isnt a reason to give up on them. They say his list is suboptimal? Well then when he wins it'll be that much sweeter. If you dislike 40k and its community then perhaps look at other gaming systems, insulting the game and community doesnt fix things.

I'm honestly getting worried about the crowd at Zilka's FLGS right now. I've had similar experiences with obnoxious hyper-competitive atmospheres at game stores; I ended up stopping going to the obnoxious one and switching to a place with a more laid-back/friendly group.