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I recently play a game against a fellow warboss. He was kunning and had come up with a tactic for his deff koptas I've not thought about. He is new to 7th edition and was reading over the rules and he was not a big fan of over watch that players can get to use. So he came up with this little number to help with that. He ran the deff koptas solo on the table and had them follow his trukk boy squads. He he got ready to assault with them we would declare the assault with the deff kopta first and then the boyz. Pretty nifty trick because between the two attackers, there is plus on toughness and armor save. Plus the deff kopta could jink from any attack that could negate his save. If the kopa makes it in which most of the time it will, the boyz were able to freely charge and pound the target. Then if the boyz got stuck in, he could try to hit and run and get the deff kopta out and have it move on to another target or go claim an objective. Personally, I really like this tactic. Helps provide a way to protect the boyz as they get into hand to hand and also provides a scout/ anti-armor unit/ fire support.

This tactic can also be applied to other armies that have a bike/jetbike unit of 1 that can do melee. For example space marine player could run attack bikes solo and us them for the same tactic as the deff kopta to protect the marines getting ready to assault a target.

Does he not get to choose which charging unit to target with Overwatch?

The defend get to choose, but if the deff kopta makes it into hand to hand with the unit, he can't over watch the boyz because the defending unit is now engaged.

Absolutely. Another option is to charge with something so tough that the overwatch weapons are not capable of wounding it.... like a wraith lord or wraith knight if you're eldar.

Or in cause of an ork, deff dread or mega dread.

Or meganobz.

Deffkoptas can also be used as a retinue to biker indeps. The squad gets a 12' Scout move / Outflank and H&R. Works even better than bikers in lower pt games. If you're shor on points in a ~500 pt game, you can make a BikerBoss + a single Kopta deathstar. Cause in 500 pt games it's allready a super-durable killy squad.

Yep, using a Deffkopta to eat Overwatch is a great idea. Softening up the target with some TL Rokkits is a nice bonus too.

With the change in 7th about having to declare Jink BEFORE rolling to hit, a lot of the time my DeffKoptas are only being used for exactly what you mentioned: soaking up Overwatch and Taking objectives.

I run upto 10 single DeffKoptas in an unbound list and pretty much guarantee giving my opp First Blood but I've never lost a game based on that single VP.

Remember that DeffKoptas turbo 24" so can really book it when necessary.

P.S. Even if they don't Jink, I've missed with Twin Linked BS 2 so many times that if I ever do get a hit, I'm surprised.

I took some choppa boyz and charged a squad of broadsides and fire warriors, using 2 units of 1 defkopta each to eat the overwatch. The broadsides got wiped out (along with only 1 defkopta). It was Glorious.

Really, if you have any fast support slots open, FILL them with 1-unit defkoptas. against Tau do exactly this. For other armies, just use the koptas to snag maelstrom points.

Almost an autotake if you have the slots.

How does the defender get to choose which unit to overwatch? I've been playing it that you declare a charge with one unit. Make or break it. And then you declare a charge with a second unit towards the locked unit. Is this correct?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
How does the defender get to choose which unit to overwatch? I've been playing it that you declare a charge with one unit. Make or break it. And then you declare a charge with a second unit towards the locked unit. Is this correct?

You are correct. In previous editions you had to declare all your charges first and the opponent could pick and choose. It seems like a minor difference, but doing it this way is a huge nerf to overwatch.

You've been playing it right. I was mistaken about the correct order of events during the charge sub-phase. The defender can choose to Overwatch the Deffkopta or not, then if the Deffkopta survives the Overwatch (or there was none) it is engaged with the defending unit and the Boyz can join the assault without the possibility of Overwatch.

xlDuke wrote:
You've been playing it right. I was mistaken about the correct order of events during the charge sub-phase. The defender can choose to Overwatch the Deffkopta or not, then if the Deffkopta survives the Overwatch (or there was none) it is engaged with the defending unit and the Boyz can join the assault without the possibility of Overwatch.

And that is the beauty of this little tactic. I believe the order of operations is you would first declare all of your assaults. In the order in which they would be assaulting, because in this case order matters. Deffkopta and then boyz into the same unit. You opponent then gets the chance to over watch and has to pick between the two choices. Most players will choose the deff kopta just to not waste their over watch. Or they can pick the boyz and take the risk that the deff kopta will not make it into close combat. The reason this works is because once the deff kopta makes into combat the opponent's unit is counted as being engaged and can not over watch the boyz. If the deff kopa survives the first round of combat, I always try and hit and run with them and get them out. They already have achieve their objective. The opponent does not get to consolidate out either because they are still engaged by the boyz.

Personally, I run 3 deff koptas solo. My FOC uses an allied detachment of more orks. I usually have a dakka jet or a fighta-bomber in there.

Last night I had a Deffkopta assault 10 Warlocks on Bikes with Autarch on Bike and Farseer on Bike. The i assaulted with 5 Killsaw MegaNobz with Mad Doc Grotsnik and actually got to use Rampage (only one bonus Attack).

He caused 4 wounds on the Kopta and I saved them all with Armor saves and saved all wounds on the Nobz between FNP and 2+ armor.

I caused 20 wounds which he saved all but one due to rerolling 4++ Inv saves due to physic powers. Warlocks on bikes are a helluva great bargin for what they do. Next turn he wiffs Fortune by rolling 4 3's, then some warlocks started dying even though he dropped my MegaNobz strength by one. I got 3 bonus attacks from rampage!!

Turns out in my excite ment I forgot to roll the 2 attacks for the DeffKopta before the MegaNobz, I cause one wound on his single wound remaining model, Autarch on Bike, which he rolls a one!!! Most epic battle ever. BTW all warlocks wound on 2+ in CC due to Wychblades.

TL,DR: Deffkopta not only absorbs Overwatch, he also deals final wound to enemy dear star.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Last night I had a Deffkopta assault 10 Warlocks on Bikes with Autarch on Bike and Farseer on Bike. The i assaulted with 5 Killsaw MegaNobz with Mad Doc Grotsnik and actually got to use Rampage (only one bonus Attack).

He caused 4 wounds on the Kopta and I saved them all with Armor saves and saved all wounds on the Nobz between FNP and 2+ armor.

I caused 20 wounds which he saved all but one due to rerolling 4++ Inv saves due to physic powers. Warlocks on bikes are a helluva great bargin for what they do. Next turn he wiffs Fortune by rolling 4 3's, then some warlocks started dying even though he dropped my MegaNobz strength by one. I got 3 bonus attacks from rampage!!

Turns out in my excite ment I forgot to roll the 2 attacks for the DeffKopta before the MegaNobz, I cause one wound on his single wound remaining model, Autarch on Bike, which he rolls a one!!! Most epic battle ever. BTW all warlocks wound on 2+ in CC due to Wychblades.

TL,DR: Deffkopta not only absorbs Overwatch, he also deals final wound to enemy dear star.

Very Nice! Glad to hear that you are having great luck with the tactic.

this all sounds too good to be true ...

is it really possible that while you overwatch in order 1. deffkopta 2. boyz , the opponent while choosing to not over-watch the jetbike is stuck in combat and can't over-watch the boyz ?

I have to try this !!!

as a secondary, they can also act as assault-denial in the enemies turn.

Perhaps you can see an assault coming next turn, a reasonable distance assault (IE there not 2" away already ), you can in your turn move your kopta inbetween your unit and the enemy, this can help due to the base of the kopta making a unit choose either to go for a risky long charge; where they will have to move around the kopta, or assault the kopta.

Assaulting the kopta will clearly be quite a waste for say a dedicated assault unit, or will result in them being charged next turn by the unit you just shielded. Or they can attempt the long charge, fail and charge nothing

But yeh, love dem koptas!

Solar Shock wrote:

Assaulting the kopta will clearly be quite a waste for say a dedicated assault unit, or will result in them being charged next turn by the unit you just shielded. Or they can attempt the long charge, fail and charge nothing

But yeh, love dem koptas!

I often do such things with mek gunz. t7 3+ is increadible hard to get rid of for an assault army. Mek gunz are not nearly as fast, however and you got to plan this interference at least a turn ahead and it's prone to falling apart cause of this. Hard to plan too far ahead when so much random stuff happens around.

 koooaei wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:

Assaulting the kopta will clearly be quite a waste for say a dedicated assault unit, or will result in them being charged next turn by the unit you just shielded. Or they can attempt the long charge, fail and charge nothing

But yeh, love dem koptas!

I often do such things with mek gunz. t7 3+ is increadible hard to get rid of for an assault army. Mek gunz are not nearly as fast, however and you got to plan this interference at least a turn ahead and it's prone to falling apart cause of this. Hard to plan too far ahead when so much random stuff happens around.

T7 3+ wall of death? with footslogging shoota boyz behind? ouch! charge T7 3+, which is then countercharged by your shoota boyz, who lets face it are choppa boyz with more range! But yeh, blocking charge paths with koptas does require quite alot of thought and you might find he simply charges something else but i severly underrated koptas when i first started to collect, i converted most to bikes.... and now im converting things to koptas!

Don't the artillery crew only use the T7 when they're shot at and then revert to their usual T2 in an assault?

xlDuke wrote:
Don't the artillery crew only use the T7 when they're shot at and then revert to their usual T2 in an assault?

That's a good thing cause they get wiped out and you've got a free round of shooting on that deathstar. Be it shootas, sluggas, mek gunz or whatever - everything goes.

xlDuke wrote:
Don't the artillery crew only use the T7 when they're shot at and then revert to their usual T2 in an assault?

stick your DLS MA warboss in there with a challenge mek? crew can take a few deaths then your warboss can mop up? But probably a waste of a DLS warboss

That would be a unit that can't embark on a transport, and can't run.

 grendel083 wrote:
That would be a unit that can't embark on a transport, and can't run.

why would you be trying to embark artillery or make them run?

Solar Shock wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
That would be a unit that can't embark on a transport, and can't run.

why would you be trying to embark artillery or make them run?

You're the one talking about assaulting with this unit
Let's be honest, without a transport or run, it's not going to happen

koooaei wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
Don't the artillery crew only use the T7 when they're shot at and then revert to their usual T2 in an assault?

That's a good thing cause they get wiped out and you've got a free round of shooting on that deathstar. Be it shootas, sluggas, mek gunz or whatever - everything goes.

grendel083 wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
That would be a unit that can't embark on a transport, and can't run.

why would you be trying to embark artillery or make them run?

You're the one talking about assaulting with this unit
Let's be honest, without a transport or run, it's not going to happen

the DLS MA WB was a counter to having your unit wiped by being assaulted, and it wasn't a serious comment.

We had an idea of a mekgun mini deaffstar for a Dread Mob formation.
Megaboss - boss's good for dreadmob
SAG/ MFF mek - optional, you got a mek from dreadmob anywayz
Painboss - optional, you got a painboss from dreadmob anywayz
Wierdboy - not necessery but awesome with half the powers he could get including deepstrike
3-5 gunz - probably KMK with ammo runts

Darn, i haven't tried it yet! Got to do it, really.

 koooaei wrote:
We had an idea of a mekgun mini deaffstar for a Dread Mob formation.
Megaboss - boss's good for dreadmob
SAG/ MFF mek - optional, you got a mek from dreadmob anywayz
Painboss - optional, you got a painboss from dreadmob anywayz
Wierdboy - not necessery but awesome with half the powers he could get including deepstrike
3-5 gunz - probably KMK with ammo runts

Darn, i haven't tried it yet! Got to do it, really.

I know, I still want to do it badly. not because I think it will wreckface. But because I think its unbelievably orky! gorka or is it morka would be proud

 koooaei wrote:
We had an idea of a mekgun mini deaffstar for a Dread Mob formation.
Megaboss - boss's good for dreadmob
SAG/ MFF mek - optional, you got a mek from dreadmob anywayz
Painboss - optional, you got a painboss from dreadmob anywayz
Wierdboy - not necessery but awesome with half the powers he could get including deepstrike
3-5 gunz - probably KMK with ammo runts

Darn, i haven't tried it yet! Got to do it, really.

ive tried both ma warboss and ma bigmek attached to a squad of 3 to 5 kmk mek guns, and let me tell you, it wrecks. yeah sure they cant do musch in melee, but they have decimated termies, transports, and walkers, (and very recently a trigon prime, a squad of 5 kmk took it down in one turn before it could regenerate).

geargutz wrote:

ive tried both ma warboss and ma bigmek attached to a squad of 3 to 5 kmk mek guns, and let me tell you, it wrecks. yeah sure they cant do musch in melee, but they have decimated termies, transports, and walkers, (and very recently a trigon prime, a squad of 5 kmk took it down in one turn before it could regenerate).

dont say that... you'll have me and Koooooai foaming at the mouth