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Hi folks,

Recently I have gotten into Grey Knights. I've started with 500 pts and so far I thoroughly enjoy them. I was thinking about making a 1500 pts list at some point. So of course I have been looking at 1500 pts list online and I don't think I have found a single list that have Dreadnoughts. I have seen plenty with Dreadknights, but no Dreadnoughts. Which is a shame because Dreadnoughts in general are one of my favourite units.

So I ask the people of DakkaDakka, why is that? Do people simply not like them? Perhaps they're considered a unit useless nowadays? Or are there simply better ways to spend your points?

You've already answered it.

Noughts aren't Knights.

Dreadknights right now are impossible to pass up.

While I personally pride myself in staying out of netlisting or metalisting, I personally find it to be near impossible to make a list without 2.

If you want a walker, most any veteran GK player on here is going to point you at the Knight Errant.

As an Alpha strike anti armour unit not much beats a dreadnought with a multi melta in a drop pod. If
You have a few extra points making him venerable just to hit on 2+ is a bonus.

Not often that doesn't make the points back for me.

Not sure GK have pods in the codex but allying some in would be worth it while the rest of your army rips infantry to pieces.

GKs don't have Pods for some bizarre reason.

We have no way to deliver our dreadnoughts, and dreadnoughts have been of dubious value for several editions.

I suppose if you were happy to be unbound you can just buy in a pod from BA codex.

A Dreadknight with a heavy psilencer and a teleport pack can also deliver an alpha strike and isn't pigeonholed into a role.

For what it is worth, if you and your community allow Forge-World units, the Doomglaive Dreadnought can be very fun, and will sometimes catch a ride in a Storm-Raven in higher point games, when I feel like playing pure GK.

What are the Doomglaive rules?

IIRC they were a DCCW that gave +d3 attacks and was a Force Weapon.

They were made for the Daemon Hunter codex though. So they're way outdated.

That dreadnought could take a Psycannon though.

A Dreadnought is one of the very few ways of getting a Melta on a GK unit. However, very few people play a GK Dreadnought like that. Double Autocannons with Psibolts was the way to play 'Noughts from 5th thru 6th, until the new codex nixed Psibolts. Now no one plays GK Dreadnoughts.

They are too expensive, too fragile, do not fill a niche role that another unit doesn't do better, and their only delivery system is a Stormraven. Now, GK players are going to take Stormravens, yet few still take Dreadnoughts. Which is sad, because a MM/PF armed Dreadnought is still a pretty decent combat monster assaulting from a Stormraven (even though a Nemesis DreadKnight does it better).

One thing I will tell you, people rarely expect to see a Dreadnought n a GK list these days, so the shock factor of one hitting the table before charging into combat found be decisive.

SJ

Yeah, GW decided to give GK dreadnoughts a nerf and a significant price hike at the same time. Only reason to take one is if it looks cool.

Honestly Dreadnoughts for most lists aren't that good, but if you're going to do it make sure you double down on it.

Now GK Dreads... aren't too different than ordinary Dreads, all we got is Psychic Pilot and Aegis; and we pay for it. We also don't have really any special variants like SW Shield and Axe, BA Furioso or Libby, or even Ironclads for more AV.

The attachments also aren't special, though ironically this might be in our favor in most cases. They have a Heavy Flamer NOT Incinerator, which means your 5-man PAGK squad is going to be hitting harder in range. But they DO have a melta if you can figure out how to deliver it.

And the FW Dread... is pretty alright, if it wasn't for its insane price tag in and out game.

 DarkLink wrote:
Yeah, GW decided to give GK dreadnoughts a nerf and a significant price hike at the same time. Only reason to take one is if it looks cool.

And Dreadnoughts in the first place haven't been doing too stellar.

the best reason to take a dreadnought eight now is to get a vehicle at a lost cost point, (100 points for a basic SM dread isn't that bad. especially in smaller games) however GKs pay 25 points extra for their Dreadsnoughts and the gain just isn't really worth those 25 points.

Dreads may look cool but they kinda suck in this game, though they have gotten a little better in this edition because AP3 or worse can't blow it up. But there isn't much of a reason to bring one.

I'd rather have a MC instead.

Allied with Space Wolves you can bring some Drop Pods from their Fast Attack slot. Just bring a min force

I remember how GK players used to spam their 'psflemen' dreads but now that they are only Str7 nobody wants them since they're not SM Dreads +1.

They aren't taken now because the Dreadknight is too cheesy and broken. Remove the Dreadknight and then Dreadnoughts become attractive again.

Pozy, your ignorance of the GK codex is showing again. How can Dreadnoughts be attractive when the conclusion is the even cheaper C:SM ones are not really worth it?

 Quickjager wrote:
How can Dreadnoughts be attractive when the conclusion is the even cheaper C:SM ones are not really worth it?

That's the gist of it - vanilla SM Dreadnoughts are a questionable value, and GK pay a 25 point premium for... psychic pilot and the aegis? Not worth it, especailly when you can buy a highly superior Dreadknight for jut a few more points.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
How can Dreadnoughts be attractive when the conclusion is the even cheaper C:SM ones are not really worth it?

That's the gist of it - vanilla SM Dreadnoughts are a questionable value, and GK pay a 25 point premium for... psychic pilot and the aegis? Not worth it, especailly when you can buy a highly superior Dreadknight for jut a few more points.

That's my point though; if the Dreadknight didn't exist then it would be a good option

Yes, when good options are removed you look at what is left...

If the codex didn't have Terminators I bet Strikes would be more appealing.

Removing the Dreadknight would make Grey Knights far more balanced as the Dreadknight is way too good compared to other stuff.

Removing the Dreadknight would be terrible for codex balance as we lack any kind of long ranged AT and the durability and speed makes up for that and balances weaknesses that we've been trying to handle sInce 4th Edition.

I for one am glad that we no longer need to rely on Melta StormTroopers as our a=only answer to Tank heavy lists. The Dreadknight style of play suits the codex perfectly.

The only thing that the Dreadknight is way better than in the book are the other things it competes with in its slot. Heavy...offers Dreadnoughts, which are almost laughable DK or no DK and purgators, which got supernerfed with salvo-cannons.

Pozy, you seem to have some sort of GK vendetta right now, which is surprising as Tau should be well suited to handle most any GK list.


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Give Dreadnoughts access to personal teleporters...and now we're talking...

It is nothing to do with my Tau. Do you watch Miniwargaming's videos on YouTube? A Grey Knight players tabled Tau by turn 2 (and people call Tau cheesy).

I just dislike how the Dreadknight isn't hated against much whilst the Riptide always receives hate and they are both bad.

You don't need long range fire power when you deepstrike turn 1 into the opponent's face.

I will agree that the RIptide receives too much hate. It's a highly mediocre unit that can be ignored...as long as you kill the Markerlights.

We either need ranged firepower or the ability to pop a tank from the front. We have little ability to do either. Any veteran daemonhunter will tell you how difficult life was before Dreadknights, and they've become especially important now with their points decrease in this edition and the loss of psybolt ammo codex wide...as well as the loss of Inquisition.

Pure GK require Dreadknights to be any kind of competitive.

Woah, I wouldn't call the Riptide mediocre.

Str 7 is the typical anti tank strength nowadays due to exploding vehicles is too ifficult, and you have access to str 7 in all of your squads.

Whilst range is an issue, it is just part of the Grey Knights being an in-your-face type of army.

Psycannons are only effective on terminators.

Granted I have played the Biomancy game with a Dark Angels libby just to get myself Relentless Psycannon Purifiers...but that more unreliable and requires Allies.

So, we have access to S7 in Terminator squads (2 Cannons for 400 points) or Dreadknights (A Cannon and a half for 200ish points)

Unless he stands still a PAGK has 2 shots at 12" range. Terrible gun for him.

Every option is viable in codex dredknights, sure if you look at it from a purely compettative angle you won't detur from the norm of multiple dk but that depends on how compettative you are

Yes, but range doesn't matter when you alpha strike.

Why do you think melta guys in drop pods do so well? Because it gets short range guns into range.

Especially since you can run and then shoot when you come in.

SGTPozy wrote:
Yes, but range doesn't matter when you alpha strike.

Why do you think melta guys in drop pods do so well? Because it gets short range guns into range.

And those guns are melta. Not glorifed assault/auto cannons