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Waaghboss Grobnub wrote: Where can i find the Mephrit dynasty "codex" rules and such? I have a pdf from crondex but no entry there. So i was thinking WD?
RP is only 4+ after a expending a sizable amount of points to field the Decurion, or 65+ points to include a Cryptek. Remember that when your comparing them point for point with other models.
3+ armor 67% to save 4+ & 5+++ = 67% to save 4+ & 4+++ = 75% chance to save 2+ armor 84% to save
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/05 01:05:00
Reroll 1's on RP withing 12" of Overlord ? Increases RP 5+ from 33% to 38% Increases RP 4+ from 50% to 58%
Reanimation Protocols are awesome, I'm just trying to remind people it's not free to get RP 4+. You are going to have to invest points and models to achieve it, either fielding extra units with the decurion, or by getting Crypteks from a Royal Court.
3+ armor 67% to save 4+ & 5+++ = 67% to save 4+ & 4+++ = 75% chance to save 3+ RP 5+ = 77% chance to save 3+ RP 4+ = 83% chance to save 2+ armor 84% to save
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/05 01:29:10
Alcibiades wrote: Yeah, but we're comparing warriors and marines, and warriors are part of the Decurion.
I was addressing the discussion of Flayed Ones with 4+ RP being better, point for point, than other assault troops.
The point still stands. A Decurion is a sizable chunk of your army to meet the requirements, Crypteks are not free, and you need one or the other to get 4+ RP.
Again, it comes down to this: were you going to use Warriors, Immortals, and Tomb Blades in your list anyway? If yes, the Decurion is not tax.
In the 2000 point list I run regularly, there are no Immortals or Tomb Blades.
In the 5000+ points of Necrons I own, I haven't fielded Immortals since they were old school metal, and Tomb Blades ever.
I'm not arguing the benefits of the Decurion. The 7E codex has me investing in a couple boxes of both Immortals and Tomb Blades, but fitting them into my army lists is a consideration. To get them into my lists, I need to remove units I would use otherwise.
I purposely did not use the term tax. Tax implies uselessness. I don't think Immortals and Tomb Blades are useless, but I didn't care for them enough to field them. To use the Decurion costs you opportunities to field other units, and it is up to you to decide if it is worth it.
Also, let's be honest here. Tomb Blades are not iconic, didn't sell well, and were never particularly popular other than last minute objective grabbers. Their inclusion in the Decurion is just evil marketing genius.
MiniWargaming posted a new Youtube video talking about the 7E Necron Troops and Transports.
I think Matt may be over estimating the difficulty of killing Necron Warriors, but the video is still something good Necron related to listen to while assembling all your new Lychguard and Tomb Blades.
Unrelated, Tomb Blades are sold out on the GW US online store. Making them a mandatory portion of the Decurion has proven to be a great marketing move.
Edit:
Realised that was part of a series
Episode 3 is on HQs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 16:22:00
Ran a 2000pt Decurion last night against Chaos Daemons. I had 3 Tomb Blades,5 Immortals, 1 Overlord, 80 Warriors, 5 Deathmarks, and 10 Flayed ones. He fielded 2 Greater Daemon characters, I don't recall the names of Khorne and Nurgle, 4 winged Daemon Princes, 3 10 man squads of Daemons (Plague Bearers, and Khorne Blood letters), and 10ish bases of Nurglings.
I was able to dispatch the the Nurglings, a squad of Blood Letters, and gets few wounds on 3 of the MCs.
He was able to crush the MSUs I fielded with no difficulty, and a mob of 20 of my warriors with overlord, using the combined effort of the MCs of Khorne.
I conceded the match on turn 4
Warriors were just a mediocre tar pit for MCs.. The needing 5's to hit and 6's to wound, if they could wound at all. Or standing there useless unable to shoot at MC is assualts.
Tomb Blades functioned as more expensive Immortals. Admittedly, I made the list quick and didn't buy the option to ignore cover for them, but at their squad size of 3, it wouldn't have mattered much.
The Immotals managed to inflict no wounds on the Plague Father, and were destroyed in assault with a Nurgle Daemon Prince
The Overlord was kitted out nicely, but took a single wound that caused instant death, before even getting off an attack.
The Deathmarks put 4 wounds on the Giant Nurgle Plague Father, but then were imediately tied up in an assualt they couldn't win with Plague Bearers.
The Flayed Ones came in turn 2, assaulted in turn 3, rolled porly for damage, and managed to wupe out a squad of Bloodletters in turn 4.
I play with good friends, so it's wasy for me to have fun, even when I'm losing. It was just disheartenind that his army was absolutely ROCK to my scissors.
Flayed Ones in assault are awesome. Getting Flayed Ones into assault not so much.. He had infitrated his Nurglings first leaving the Flayed Ones no where good to go, so they outflanked. They arrived turn 2, and didn't get to assault until turn 3. Huge improvement from where they were last edition though, and I'm thinking of converting some plastic warriors into another squad of Flayed Ones.
Necrons are dead hard to kill now, but I'm having a hard time finding the right list building balance that can cope with high AV, MCs, and assaults, without shifting to hordes of Lcyhguard.
Not coincidently, I just purchased 30 Lychguard/Praetoreans.
Screw the Decurion, next game I'm running dual a CAD with 12 Canpotek Sypders, 4 units of warriors, 12 flayed ones, and as many scarabs as I can fit in 2k.
Sure the scarabs won't have RP, but the Spyders will be spawning 12 bases of scarabs (240 points worth) per turn and will be able to contend with MCs
Most people's attention will focus on the Wraiths. Instead of focussing on the Wraiths, I'm growing a scarab swarm with 4+ RP by 10 bases per round. The other scarabs are bubble wrap, and a backup plan, and the other 6 shooty squads can focus their attention on objectives.
I haven't had a chance to try the army out yet, but I imagine that my oppoenent will find it quite difficult trying to wipe out a scarab swarm that grows by 10 bases per turn and has 4+ RP.
I don't have it exactly tweaked, yet because I don't really know what I want out of the HQs, but my group is usually running 2000 points, but it would be easy to trim it to 1850
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The Destroyer Cult is the bane of Space Marines. My first game with the new codex, I ran the Destroyer Cult against Black Templars at 1000 points. Move, Shoot, Jet Pack back into cover, repeat. He had never played agaisnt Necron Desttroyers before. You should have seen his face when he realised none of his models would be getting to roll armor saves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 22:36:06
I haven't had a chance to try the army out yet, but I imagine that my oppoenent will find it quite difficult trying to wipe out a scarab swarm that grows by 10 bases per turn and has 4+ RP.
That looks amazing. Just hide the Swarm Scarabs behind some scenery, bubblewrap and breed!
Thanks.
The plan is for the Swarm to tarpit/destroy the biggest threat the enemy has on the board, the Immortals to camp my objectives, and for the warriors and Tomb Blades to disrupt the enemy objectives. The CAD swarms are to bubblewrap and protect the Spyders.
My regular opponents are Space Marines and Daemons, with the Daemonic MCs being the biggest issue to contend with.
changemod wrote: Took a glance over Kill Team options, and making a single Destroyer a specialist with the Ignores Cover ability just seems brutal now.
Can't take 2+ armour in Kill Team, so he could basically pick someone to die every turn then jump out of sight.
Fill up remaining space with Warriors and Flayed Ones and you're done.
Could just take 5 destroyers.....
They can murder anything with AP3 and zip around the board to claim the objectives.
Yeah, my only dislike of Destroyer cult is the possibility of having too few models on the table.
Against Space Marines, it's pretty much priceless to watch the Space Marine player wince when he's constantly forced to remove casualties without getting any armor save rolls.
Is it just because they're the 'toughest' line option in a Rec Legion?
They're cheap. 22 points per model.
They're resilient. T5 and 3+ armour saves and Jink AND 5+ RP (4+ in decurion)
They're fast. See jetbikes.
They deal good amount of damage. Twin-linked rapid fire S5 AP4 Gauss with Ignores Cover is very strong.
Add all this together and include the fact that they can be taken in units of up to 10 models and you have a strong unit with little to no downsides.
He's got most of the bases covered. The thing he left out is that they are a requirement to field a Decurion. So you're in for at least 3 if you want to field a Decurion at all, and you'll probably want to field a Decurion.
KiloFiX wrote: How are Scarabs? I noticed that a lot of Harvest lists only have the minimal 3.
I've been running scarabs. I think the reason your seeing minimal units fielded with the Canoptek Swarm is really because of the solo Spyder and people being obbsessed with the Wraiths. A solo Spyder can't really replace the losses to the scarab swarm fast enough, and you may not want to run the risk of it harming itself producing more scarabs.
Last weekend I had my Canoptek Swarm's Spyder kill itself in turn 3, having suffered a wound each turn producing scarabs. I realise that rolling 1's 3 turns in a row was gak luck, but it happened, and it stung.
The other reasoning I've seen is simply point shaving. I run 10 Spyders in my newest list. If I needed to shave points, I can get a swarm of 3 scarabs up to 13 in my first movement phase. I'm actually running a swarm of 9 and a swarm of 3. By turn 2 I have 20 something scarab bases with 4+RP locked in combat, and I start bumping up the numbers of the squad of 3.
How do you find the new Entropic in combat though?
Meh.
I guess it will come in handy agaisnt MC's, but I mostly play against Space Marines, so it hasn't done much for me.
Against vehicles, math hammer says 66% of your attacks will hit, and 16% of them with glance, so in theory a big swarm should be able to down pretty much anything, but I hate relying on rolling 6's. I am notorious for rolling 6's to hit and none to wound.
The DESTROYER CULT has restrictions. We know this because there is actually something written in the RESTRICTIONS box of the formation. It tells us that the Destroyer units must consist of at least 3 models.
RAW The CANOPTEK HARVEST has no listed restrictions, it literally says "none" We know that it MUST consist of 1 Spyder, 1 unit Canoptek Wraiths, and 1 unit of Canoptek Scarabs. It doesn't say no more than 3 Wraiths, 3 Scarabs, 1 Spyder. We know that Wraiths and Scarabs have a minimum unit size of 3, and can include additional models. The Spyder has a minimum unit size of 1, and can include additional models. The requirement calls for at least 1 Spyder be included. Since the requirement is singular, it is listed in it's singular form. There is no RAW Restriction on the Spyder unit size, because NO Restrictions are listed.
The Canoptek Harvest being limited to no more than a singular spyder would indeed be a "restriction" since it would overide the Canoptek Spyder dataslate allowing for additional Spyders, and therefore should be listed as a restriction.
RAI Page 34 states "unit of Canoptek Sypders", instead of the singular Sypder. The language of the Judicator Battalion requirements states "unit of Triarch Stalkers" instead of the singular. The language of the Judicator Battalion states "within line of sight of a Triarch Stalker", while the Canoptek Harvest's language states "within 12" of the Canoptek Spyder"
It's sloppy editing any case. Either the language of the two formations should match, or there should be something listed in the restrictions section of the Canoptek Swarm.
I am unaware of any other formation in 40K that has a restriction limiting the maximum unit size. It would be an unprecedented restriction.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/24 17:36:21
The Canoptek Harvest could easily have been worded identically to be '1 unit of Canoptek Spyders', but instead they opted for '1 Canoptek Spyder', as they did with '1 Overlord' in the Reclamation Legion formation.
I find that example flawed. The Overlord Datasheet does not allow for additional overlords to be added in the same slot, as the Canoptek Spyders allows. There is no such thing as unit of overlords, but a single Spyder can be ugraded to a unit of Spyders.
In any case, the biggest problem with the solo Spyder argument is that lack of any restrictions in the Canoptek Swarm Datasheet. Limiting a unit of 1-3 models to a single model is defeintely a restriction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/24 19:12:08
Therion, I got hung up on you using the overlord as an example and quoted that. By time I was writing the rest of the post I forgot that you had mentioned the Triarch. I apologize for rehashing that.
While I completely agree with you that the dataslate is badly written, the fact they listed no restrictions, the fluff mentions unit not singular, and the white dwarf pictures showed multiple Spyders, makes the intent completely obfuscated at best, and provides an argumet for intent for multiple spyders.
Full disclosure, I've been running the Canoptek Swarm with a single Spyder, to minimize any potential arguments, but the more this gets brought up the more I think people who are doing so handicapping themselves unnecessarily.
I'll gladly accept a GWFAQ ruling either way, but I think the RAW argument of no restrictions currently trumps any RAI assertions to the contrary.
I'll add Flyrants to my list when I can figure out a way to make Mechanical Necrony looking ones
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/24 19:31:23
omerakk wrote: I don't really think players are handicapping themselves by only taking 1 spyder; I think the formation works fine with as few points in it as possible.
Unless of course, you're wanting to use the formation as a platform for the full blown scarab farm.
Adding 3 bases a turn to a unit that gets RP.... could be extremely annoying for people to deal with.
I'm running 9 Spyders in a CAD + Decurion + Canoptek Swarm, adding 10 Scarab bases a turn, that get 4+ RP.
It's is actually 2 fewer Spyders than I was previously running.
If your focus is on the Wraiths, yeah I can see what your are saying and you only really need/want the single spyder. If your focusing on the Scarabs however, 3 Spyders are better than 1. Even with 4+ RP I was still losing about 3 scarab bases per turn. A swarm of 9, supported by a single Spyder, just isn't going to cut it for me.
