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Praetorians don't have S7 or Armourbane. They're the second strongest assault option offensively... But lack even the potential for Cryptek/Cryptek character buffing for durability Scythe Lychguard have.

In fact, I'd rank Praetorians dead last for Necron assault unit durability after even Flayed Ones, who can buy over two unit members per Praetorian for a -1 to saves.

On the other hand, Lychguard are dead last for mobility, so really it's a matter of carefully combining your options to get what you need.

By the way, I tried the two Lychguard unit Zahndrekh/Obyron catapult trick I've mentioned before, and it worked great. Dropping ten scythe Lychguard and two characters one inch from my opponent's back field with no scatter on turn one gave him a lot to think about.

That's the problem. Superior melee damage potential is worthless when you cannot make it into melee ever - unless you also take a NS which heavily increases the model's PPM.

Meh, it's not that hard to work around for the level of output you get.

I'd go teleporting rather than Night Scythe though. Charging on turn 3 is realistically only a tiny fraction better than they'd manage running, and any reserves delay makes it an active hindrance.

In a decurion I'd say praets are your go to for damage output, the 4+++ makes them reasonably durable and they give you much needed ap2. The speed more than makes up for the warscythe, since you don't really need armourbane when your entire army shreds vehicles and while the +2 str is nice the shooting attack on the rod allows for more flexibility to go with their mobility.

However if you want durability then Shieldguard are arguably PPM the most durable thing in the game. 3++/4+++ in the decurion or with a cryptek. In the decurion have your Overlord nearby to provide re-rolls of 1 for RP, and outside of the decurion give them orikan to re-roll 1 on saves. These things are hard to bring down. Only problem is they are slow, a veil is useful on them but thats another expense plus a character, still is the best choice for their mobility problems. The scythe has them hiding for potentially too long to be of use and not making use of their durability.

So for the Praets vs Lytch debate, in a decurion I would say praets since it helps their 1 weakness and I would say never go for warscytheguard since praets do the job generally better. Shieldguard are a close second to praets in the decurion just depending on weather or not you need ap2. Outside of a decurion I would say shieldguard are the best, since it is easy to improve their RP without slowing them down with a cryptek, still don't think warscythes are good but they are definitely better outside the decurion because praets take a big durability hit when not in the decurion.

So in general, what's the better (in terms of points efficiency and delivery) Unit for AP3 / AP2 (as in preferably AP2 but at least AP3) to go up against Marines, MCs, Suits, TDA, Riptides, etc.?

Lychguard?

Wraiths (both Rending and Beamer in Harvest Formation)?

Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers and Destroyer Lords?

Or is there another option (short of like C'Tan)?

Thanks!

 KiloFiX wrote:
So in general, what's the better (in terms of points efficiency and delivery) Unit for AP3 / AP2 (as in preferably AP2 but at least AP3) to go up against Marines, MCs, Suits, TDA, Riptides, etc.?

Lychguard?

Wraiths (both Rending and Beamer in Harvest Formation)?

Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers and Destroyer Lords?

Or is there another option (short of like C'Tan)?

Thanks!

Your other option is Flayed Ones, with raw number of attacks and disposability of horde members.

 KiloFiX wrote:
So in general, what's the better (in terms of points efficiency and delivery) Unit for AP3 / AP2 (as in preferably AP2 but at least AP3) to go up against Marines, MCs, Suits, TDA, Riptides, etc.?

Lychguard?

Wraiths (both Rending and Beamer in Harvest Formation)?

Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers and Destroyer Lords?

Or is there another option (short of like C'Tan)?

Thanks!

C'tan is definitely an option. AP 2 fleshbane is legit. Grab the Conclave of the Burning One for actual durability


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I played my first game with the new codex yesterday and it was definitely an experience. Played against a Daemon Flying Circus. His list was:

Fateweaver
Be'Lakor
Blue Scribes

3 Min nurgling squads

khorne dog star

Tzeentch DP
Tzeentch DP

I don't recall which upgrades he had put on the princes, but I believe they were pretty kitted out.

The list I ran:

Destroyer Lord w/warscythe, phase shifter, nightmare shroud, res orb
Orikan the Diviner

5 Immortals w/Night Scythe
10 Warriors w/Ghost Ark

6 Wraiths w/whip coils
6 Wraiths w/whip coils
3 Tomb Blades w/shield vanes, nebuloscopes

Conclave of the Burning One

Nightbringer
Cryptek w/phase shifter, God Shackle, solar staff
Cryptel w/phase shifter, veil of darnkess

Not going to go into a bat rep but some interesting moments from the game:

Daemons turn 1 warp storm which proceeds to instagib the veiltek out of existence for first blood. I did the math. In 5,000 games, I should statistically never again experience that happening (from that warp storm result anyhow)

The Blue Scribes did turn into a greater unclean one, who became T10, resulting in quite the slap fight between him and my wraiths. I know it was a bad idea but they won in the end and man did it feel good.

No matter what people think about Necron durability, they still get swept like nobody's business

I'm glad that I can finally play a ridiculously fast ground unit without resorting to space elves. Thank you Tomb Blades

Night scythes are still pretty good. Felt super good to land 10 hits on Fateweaver in a single volley.

Before the game started, I spoke with my opponent about how to handle the Nightbringer. His interpretation of the rule (which I also believe is RAW) is that it can just target whatever it wants. Flyers, invisible units, into/out of combat. Not everyone will take that stance and I understand that perspective. However, with that in mind, he did some serious work even though he had to slog it across the board. He was able to run into range of the Gaze a few times and then just not fire his C'tan powers (oh no!)

Wraiths are awesome. I had a mini deathstar that included Orikan as well as the Destroyer Lord with a squad of wraiths. Sadly, the D lord never got to tank shots (because Daemons) but they did work on a dogstar that typically had a 3++ and was invisible until I killed Be'Lakor. Took a while, but I'm ok with the end result. 3++ re-rolling 1's is stupid. And orikam went super saiyan, which is all that really mattered.

In the end, I took the game pretty convincingly on objectives, although it was close on turn 6 when his princes murdered 2 of my obsec squads. I2 is still I2. Definitely want to try out full wraithwing, but this was good.

What really pisses me off is trying to find a list I can shove a C'tan into.

Every time I think I have a setup I like, I take a second look and think "This guy is so slow" ><

omerakk wrote:
What really pisses me off is trying to find a list I can shove a C'tan into.

Every time I think I have a setup I like, I take a second look and think "This guy is so slow" ><

I think the only viable thing is to use the conclave formation and the nightbringer and deep strike him into the middle of the opponent's back field to wreck face, distract, and disrupt. Still seems like a lot of points invested though.

It's basically a 8 wound T8 beast, I really like that unit it's really tough as nails.

nemesor army allied Tau for buffmander, now you can get monster hunter or tank hunter too! not sure if mentioned already since DA counts as "enemies"

 luke1705 wrote:

Cryptek w/phase shifter, God Shackle, solar staff

Two relics can be ran like this?

 Byte wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Cryptek w/phase shifter, God Shackle, solar staff

Two relics can be ran like this?

Certainly if one is Mephrit, yes.

The one relic per character thing in the main codex does strike me as pretty weird though, I don't know of any other codex that does that.

In a 2000 Dec list, is the Rec Legion itself worth upgrading? Or should it be kept minimal and points spent on the other Formations?

Thanks for the opinions.

 KiloFiX wrote:
In a 2000 Dec list, is the Rec Legion itself worth upgrading? Or should it be kept minimal and points spent on the other Formations?

Thanks for the opinions.

Bare bones rec-legion and fill in with destroyer cult and cynoptek harvest.

I'm still not sold on the destroyer cult, but that's probably the easiest way to go for now

 KiloFiX wrote:
In a 2000 Dec list, is the Rec Legion itself worth upgrading? Or should it be kept minimal and points spent on the other Formations?

Thanks for the opinions.

Absolutely. The reclamation legion is such an investment already that the most sensible course of action is to bulk out the units until it's a solid core gunline before shopping elsewhere.

...That said, you don't need to go particularly far, just make sure your Overlord is appropriately kitted, your Immortals and Tomb Blades are equipped to do their jobs and consider the pros and cons of adding ghost arks.

The reclamation legion is also where you get Lychguard, if you want them.

omerakk wrote:
I'm still not sold on the destroyer cult, but that's probably the easiest way to go for now

Whats not to like? 2 wounds T5, base weapon is STR5 AP3, JSJ, 3+, 4+++ RP in Decurion and preferred enemy with reroll all wounds and pens.

 Byte wrote:

omerakk wrote:
I'm still not sold on the destroyer cult, but that's probably the easiest way to go for now

Whats not to like? 2 wounds T5, base weapon is STR5 AP3, JSJ, 3+, 4+++ RP in Decurion and preferred enemy with reroll all wounds and pens.

It's more the 9 destroyer tax.

I think you are better off buying the D Lord in a CAD or Allied Force and buying 3 Heavy Destroyers directly and having 2 objSec troops to boot.

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

omerakk wrote:
I'm still not sold on the destroyer cult, but that's probably the easiest way to go for now

Whats not to like? 2 wounds T5, base weapon is STR5 AP3, JSJ, 3+, 4+++ RP in Decurion and preferred enemy with reroll all wounds and pens.

It's more the 9 destroyer tax.

I think you are better off buying the D Lord in a CAD and buying 3 Heavy Destroyers directly and having 2 objSec troops to boot.

It's not just the heavy points cost; it's also the fact that destroyers are pretty bad against other necron players.
They may be a decent option against other armies, but when facing cover saves and RP... you're paying premium price for minimal damage.

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

omerakk wrote:
I'm still not sold on the destroyer cult, but that's probably the easiest way to go for now

Whats not to like? 2 wounds T5, base weapon is STR5 AP3, JSJ, 3+, 4+++ RP in Decurion and preferred enemy with reroll all wounds and pens.

It's more the 9 destroyer tax.

I think you are better off buying the D Lord in a CAD and buying 3 Heavy Destroyers directly and having 2 objSec troops to boot.

Don't agree. I've wrecked face with my D.Cult thus far. MVP each game.

I don't think it's beneficial as your purchasing basically 5 troops if you take the Decurion and a CAD.

You can just barely fit a Destroyer Cult , Decurion and Wraith Wing together.

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

omerakk wrote:
I'm still not sold on the destroyer cult, but that's probably the easiest way to go for now

Whats not to like? 2 wounds T5, base weapon is STR5 AP3, JSJ, 3+, 4+++ RP in Decurion and preferred enemy with reroll all wounds and pens.

It's more the 9 destroyer tax.

I think you are better off buying the D Lord in a CAD and buying 3 Heavy Destroyers directly and having 2 objSec troops to boot.

Don't agree. I've wrecked face with my D.Cult thus far. MVP each game.

You would have to do comparative analysis to be able to say something definitive.

As it is

D Lord (PS, WS, NS) + D Cult (6 destroyer 3 heavy destroyer) = 580 points


D Lord (PS, WS, NS) + 5 Immortals with objSec in a NS, and a unit of 3 Heavy Destroyers = 555 points


And I know which one looks better to me.

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Byte wrote:

omerakk wrote:
I'm still not sold on the destroyer cult, but that's probably the easiest way to go for now

Whats not to like? 2 wounds T5, base weapon is STR5 AP3, JSJ, 3+, 4+++ RP in Decurion and preferred enemy with reroll all wounds and pens.

It's more the 9 destroyer tax.

I think you are better off buying the D Lord in a CAD and buying 3 Heavy Destroyers directly and having 2 objSec troops to boot.

Don't agree. I've wrecked face with my D.Cult thus far. MVP each game.

You would have to do comparative analysis to be able to say something definitive.

As it is

D Lord (PS, WS, NS) + D Cult (6 destroyer 3 heavy destroyer) = 580 points


D Lord (PS, WS, NS) + 5 Immortals in a NS, and a unit of 3 Heavy Destroyers = 555 points


And I know which one looks better to me.

No surprise here. We've disagreed in the past (shieldguard). You take yours, I'll take mine.

Again, I think they do well against everyone; except other necrons. I have found them to be borderline useless both when I use them as well as when they are used against me.

That might not be an issue for most people, but I have 6 other necron players in my area

You asked what's not to like. I replied that the 6 regular destroyers kinda suck and the 240 points for them could be better spent elsewhere (and interestingly on adding objective secured ability to a Decurion force). I think I succeeded at articulating a very valid counter opinion.

It's a strange world in which what is in effect a crisis suit with an improved stimm injector counts as kinds sucking.

Yeah, my only dislike of Destroyer cult is the possibility of having too few models on the table.

Against Space Marines, it's pretty much priceless to watch the Space Marine player wince when he's constantly forced to remove casualties without getting any armor save rolls.

Alcibiades wrote:
It's a strange world in which what is in effect a crisis suit with an improved stimm injector counts as kinds sucking.

Consider this. Why would anyone ever consider not running the Decurion? It's the loss of objective secured. So there you go.

col_impact wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
It's a strange world in which what is in effect a crisis suit with an improved stimm injector counts as kinds sucking.

Consider this. Why would anyone ever consider not running the Decurion? It's the loss of objective secured. So there you go.

Destroyers never get objective secured, Decurion or not, so I don't understand your response.