Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What Tyran said...

Play the mission. They won't take the chance in landing and RP makes you nigh invulnerable. We also have a lot of 'fast' ground options. wraiths, destroyers, flayed ones, ghost arks, and tomb blades can all beat feet to maelstrom objectives or force the enemy to maneuver in ways they don't really want to.

bodazoka wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Lol. I don't think that rule actually comes into play. Isn't there a rule that says for all intents and purposes measure distances from the hull of the transport for the passengers inside? One would think that logically such a rule would exist that would cause them to break coherency, but oddly enough that isn't the issue.

That's what I was thinking, I don't know of any rule your breaking by doing that! But.. I don't know all the rules all the time so possibly there is one somewhere?

They are still within 2" of each other, (I think) even without measuring from the hull.

This is the exact rule that one would be breaking . . .

 RobPro wrote:
What does the new Necron codex do against FMC spam?

Bring a Deathbringer and play for Objectives.
Your other units are really durable and can take a punch from the FMC's.

 necron99 wrote:
What Tyran said...

Play the mission. They won't take the chance in landing and RP makes you nigh invulnerable. We also have a lot of 'fast' ground options. wraiths, destroyers, flayed ones, ghost arks, and tomb blades can all beat feet to maelstrom objectives or force the enemy to maneuver in ways they don't really want to.

Exactly. Force them to switch from Zooming to Hover to be able to tactically accomplish anything against you.

col_impact wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
What Tyran said...

Play the mission. They won't take the chance in landing and RP makes you nigh invulnerable. We also have a lot of 'fast' ground options. wraiths, destroyers, flayed ones, ghost arks, and tomb blades can all beat feet to maelstrom objectives or force the enemy to maneuver in ways they don't really want to.

Exactly. Force them to switch from Zooming to Hover to be able to tactically accomplish anything against you.

That doesn't seem matter, they can sit at 18" and peel your frontlines each turn. They can fly circles around your wraiths until they've pegged them to death with 12 TL S6 shots per flyrant. Against me, my buddy was able to reduce my units to 0 WS/BS with paroxysm and engage them one at a time with everything. I just don't see anything particularly strong against a lot of FMCs in the codex, but I am definitely open to ideas.

You can't reduce something to 0.

Also, he needs 10 TL S6 shots to kill a Wraith.

 RobPro wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 necron99 wrote:
What Tyran said...

Play the mission. They won't take the chance in landing and RP makes you nigh invulnerable. We also have a lot of 'fast' ground options. wraiths, destroyers, flayed ones, ghost arks, and tomb blades can all beat feet to maelstrom objectives or force the enemy to maneuver in ways they don't really want to.

Exactly. Force them to switch from Zooming to Hover to be able to tactically accomplish anything against you.

That doesn't seem matter, they can sit at 18" and peel your frontlines each turn. They can fly circles around your wraiths until they've pegged them to death with 12 TL S6 shots per flyrant. Against me, my buddy was able to reduce my units to 0 WS/BS with paroxysm and engage them one at a time with everything. I just don't see anything particularly strong against a lot of FMCs in the codex, but I am definitely open to ideas.

Can you clarify whether your buddy is zooming or hovering? 18" is not hard for wraiths to cover to get into assault and then it's over the hovering FMC. And, if the opponent is zooming, it's easy to move to future blind/out-of-range spots with jump move equivalent or better. Plus, the bargeLord's crazy movement and potential here should not be overlooked. Anything hovering at any time should be assaulted and locked in CC. Maybe you are not running enough fast assault to get to the hovering FMC. The real vulnerability would be to FMC 24" ranged psyker platforms, but our own focused 24" shooting attacks and the bargeLord is still potent here

 Kholzerino wrote:
So having got to grips with the new codex, whats everyone's take on dealing with Imperial Knights now? Drown them with gauss? How I miss my Stormteks!

If you had to tailor a 1500 pt list to deal with 3 Imperial Knights what would you take?

You cannot drown them with enough Gauss. Warrior and Immortals are slow, so the Knight will almost always be able to put its shield in an optimal position. Glancing on 6's and him getting a 4+ save against each is a reall uphill battle on a 6 HP model. Plus it can wipe out a squad each turn in combat thanks to D weapon plus stomps. You need some dedicated anti-tank to have a decent chance of stopping one, imo.

Note: I've only played 3 games with my new crons, but 2 of them had Imperial Knights in them... so I have some experience with it.

Yeah, but if you're dealing with multiple knights he's tied up over 700 points in two models - close to half his army. Focus, again, on the mission and maybe the rest of his army.

 necron99 wrote:
Yeah, but if you're dealing with multiple knights he's tied up over 700 points in two models - close to half his army. Focus, again, on the mission and maybe the rest of his army.

It's not bad advice. But, it's been my (limited) experience that each knight can kill a unit each turn unless dealt with, meaning you won't have an army to take objectives with, in short order, if you don't deal with them.

Two battlecannon shots, followed by a S10 Hammer of Wrath, followed by 4 D-weapon attacks (no reanimation), follwed by d3 stomps (each usually killing multiple models and capable of bypassing reaminmation), means you're losing combat (IF anyone is left alive) and at Initiative 2, you're getting swept.

I'm of the opinion that you need to work some stuff into your list to help you destroy the Knights. Stalkers and Heavy Destroyers would help. Just my view on it.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying but in order to deal multiple knights you are no longer a TAC army. I have some knights at my club and I always secretly detest them. My lists tend to be fast though so if they want to kill me they'll need to catch me first. Scarabs are now somewhat lethal and wraiths at I5 or armed with transdimensional beamers aren't horrible. Flyers are there Achilles heal though - the deathbringer flight should chew them up.

Or if you don't mind taking allies try running the ork bully boyz formation. I ran three units of meganobz in trucks smack into an adlance - got rid of all three knights in a single turn.

"I ran 2 ghost arms in my first game with the new dex. Granted they plus 1 NS were the only vehicles. But both got taken out by multi melta from 2 drop pod squads. 1 exploded the other immobilized and later eventually exploded."


Don't think anything is supposed to survive drop pod melta. You could get lucky, but that unit is designed to pop units on arrival.

Couple things you can do is when you see your opponent has melta pods "wrap" your warriors around them so it's harder to unsafe to land the pods in melta's special range. The other thing is too field more targets so all the AT weapons aren't aimed at them.

What do you guys think of using a min-sized Canoptek Harvest, with the Spyder equipped with fabricator claws, as a bodyguard for an Annihilation Nexus?

Alcibiades wrote:
What do you guys think of using a min-sized Canoptek Harvest, with the Spyder equipped with fabricator claws, as a bodyguard for an Annihilation Nexus?

I am leaning toward pure vanilla min-sized harvests or variants with gloom prisms or transD beamers. But yeah, 6 wraiths seems overkill and best to spread the tarpit around.

col_impact wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
What do you guys think of using a min-sized Canoptek Harvest, with the Spyder equipped with fabricator claws, as a bodyguard for an Annihilation Nexus?

I am leaning toward pure vanilla min-sized harvests or variants with gloom prisms or transD beamers. But yeah, 6 wraiths seems overkill and best to spread the tarpit around.

t

I'm thinking the Spyder can be generating scarabs and repairing the vehicles, while if anybody tries to get within melta or charge range he gets a face full of wraiths.

H. Destroyers in small squads are pretty good at dealing with Knights because your able to Deep Strike to multiple different sides and get shots off.

So the Knight player is forced to pick which facing he'd rather not have the shield.

That's really pretty much it.

Also, if Lychguard w/ Warscythes can get a charge off they'll probably kill the Knight in CC especially accompanied by a destroyer lord.

You also have Triarch Stalkers w/ 2 Shot Melta Weapons.

Hollismason wrote:
H. Destroyers in small squads are pretty good at dealing with Knights because your able to Deep Strike to multiple different sides and get shots off.

So the Knight player is forced to pick which facing he'd rather not have the shield.

That's really pretty much it.

Also, if Lychguard w/ Warscythes can get a charge off they'll probably kill the Knight in CC especially accompanied by a destroyer lord.

You also have Triarch Stalkers w/ 2 Shot Melta Weapons.

Oh yes. There are definitely answers. All I was saying is that you better pack some into your list, or Knights will wreck you.

The Destroyer Cult Especially upgraded can hurt Knights specifically, 3 H. Destroyers and each Squad having a H. Destroyer. Rerolling Armour Penetration on all the Gauss Shots and the ST9.

Being able to just deep strike to get the Arcs you want on the shooting is pretty good.

I've only played a single game against a knight so far and it wasnt that bad. I pretty much held it up with wraiths for a few turns while I killed the rest of his army. By turn 4 all he had was the knight and it didnt survive almost my entire army glancing it to death.

Multiple knights might be an issue and I wouldnt mind facing it to see how it goes but nobody in my group really uses more than 1.

I've read most of this post, but don't recall if this has been discussed. For the royal court formation under the little 3 breakout for the crypteks where it says Illuminor Szeras or Orikan the Diviner may be taken in place of a cryptek". Does that mean i can only replace 1 cryptek with only 1 of these 2 characters. Or can I replace 2 crypteks, 1 with each of these characters?

My reading is that you could replace 2 crypteks, each with one of the special characters, but it's vague enough for some argument, I'm sure.

 docdoom77 wrote:
My reading is that you could replace 2 crypteks, each with one of the special characters, but it's vague enough for some argument, I'm sure.

Makes sense to me, but I see how it could be seen the other way as well. My normal opponent won't care though.

Next question(s), Deathmarks and destroyer lord. If I attach the destroyer lord to the deathmarks and hold them in reserve, can the destroyer lord come on with them if I choose to bring them in on my opponents turn? And if he can, he grants preferred enemy to the deathmarks, but does the hunter from hyperspace rule transfer to the D lord?

Yes he can. The Hunter from Hyperspace wouldn't I don't think, he can be in deepstrike from reserve with them on your opponents turn though..

I've been wondering about that but with a D Lord attached to Flayed Ones in and Imothek formation myself.

It'd be a good way to deliver a ST7 AP2 flamer , that's for sure.

Remind me, are Lychguard better with Warscythes or Shields?

I realize it depends on what one is going up against but supposing you were building a squad for general TAC as part of the Rec Legion.

Thanks!

 KiloFiX wrote:
Remind me, are Lychguard better with Warscythes or Shields?

I realize it depends on what one is going up against but supposing you were building a squad for general TAC as part of the Rec Legion.

Thanks!

Actually it mostly depends on what the rest of your army is doing. Do you lack AP 2? Do you need a durable unit to tarpit and/or murderize most non-TEQs?

The offensive output of the warscythes can't be ignored; however the decrease in durability is not insubstantial. So you need to make sure that you have something to overcome this. Are you going to run a Cryptek with the solar staff with them? Are you going to try and have a ranking destroyer lord/Cryptek?

You can approach it from the other side of the coin as well. Stick a D lord in with some shield boys and that should be a decent amount of AP 2 and armorbane for your needs (although you really probably don't want to charge a tank with your Lychguard, but in a pinch a solo D lord can do some work late game)

In short, I think they can both be made to work. If you're playing the Decurion, I would value offensive output over durability because you already have that in spades. In a normal CAD, I would probably try to enhance their durability through alternate means and take the warscythes to get the best of both worlds; however that is expensive, so it's still balanced either way.

You can't actually get a better tarpit than Orikan and Lychguard w/ Dispersion shields. 3++ , reroll 1s , 4++ . It's not going anywhere.

if fighting knights you can put 20 warriors at fron of him and 20 warriors with veil of darkness and solar staff behind him and let him cry....

LG are better off with shields. If you want offensive power, you are better off taking TP.