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So, if the kroot were to end up fighting the Tau, who would win? (This could end up happening if the Tau were to discover the kroot's widespread mercenary tendencies, and trying to stop them. Hence, sour feelings/amnesty, and possibly an outbreak in violence)

Most people are gonna say the Tau, but honestly I think the Kroot would suprise them. that said if the Tau empire had a full scale rebellion on it's hands from a major client race, the answer as to whom would win, is proably the Imperium of man. as chances are that'd really give the IoM an opening to come in and curb stomp them MUCH easier

The Tau are going be like Braddock at Monongahela.

2BlackJack1 wrote:
So, if the kroot were to end up fighting the Tau, who would win? (This could end up happening if the Tau were to discover the kroot's widespread mercenary tendencies, and trying to stop them. Hence, sour feelings/amnesty, and possibly an outbreak in violence)

Tau. Especially if they knew gak was going down hill.

There is a reason they dont hand out the cool toys to outsiders even the kroot.


Edit: But as second post the kroot wont be the issue and as such chances are they will watercast the FETH out of the kroot and more than likely not stop them from mercing. in fact they would probably try to use it to there advantage and send them off to fight two other enemies to pull pressure off in an area etc etc.

The Tau did give them upgraded ammo for their weapons, but it isn't much compared to what the Tau have. Kroots have warp drives though, so that could help with raids on tau planets.

Tau, no contest.

Their technology, their adaptive capabilities, their superior pool of resources, their experience in extensive campaigns across whole sectors at this point in the fluff. As of now, the Kroot home world pays tribute to the Tau Empire, and I'm sure they've shared plenty of their internal military intelligence whereas the Tau has had no reason to reciprocate.

RIP Kroot. No one's saying it wouldn't be an honorable and worthy fight, btw. Just futile.

The Tau fight Kroot for years before offering them their merc status IIRC. Although I am thinking of 3rd ed tau. I know they have changed the fluff now.

Tau. Were it not for the limited technology that the Tau gave the Kroot, they'd still be in the stone-age.Tau would have an unrivaled technological advantage. Without the Tau on their side, Kroot have little to no manufacturing support and would crumble without munitions.

The kroot did have space sphere type things when they first met the tau though.

Anybody who isn't effected by the pheromone-soaked pages of Codex: Tau is aware that the Kroot deliberately hide their true advancement in order to keep themselves strong.

Kroot. BFG rules a Warsphere fleet pounds a baseline Tau fleet every time.

I think what really matters here is the size difference. In a fair fight kroot would have a chance, but noramaly would be hopelessly outnumbered, not that they wouldn't inflict massive casualties on the tau. Keep in mind, the kroot home world and surrounding system were almost taken by a single ork WAAAAGH.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think what really matters here is the size difference. In a fair fight kroot would have a chance, but noramaly would be hopelessly outnumbered, not that they wouldn't inflict massive casualties on the tau. Keep in mind, the kroot home world and surrounding system were almost taken by a single ork WAAAAGH.

Mind you, that it was one Waaagh says little.

We have tiny Waaaghs that the local PDF is capable of almost stalling (!) and we have gargantuan Waaaghs like the one of the Beast.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think what really matters here is the size difference. In a fair fight kroot would have a chance, but noramaly would be hopelessly outnumbered, not that they wouldn't inflict massive casualties on the tau. Keep in mind, the kroot home world and surrounding system were almost taken by a single ork WAAAAGH.

Mind you, that it was one Waaagh says little.

We have tiny Waaaghs that the local PDF is capable of almost stalling (!) and we have gargantuan Waaaghs like the one of the Beast.

In the book Siege of Castellax there were millions upon millions of orks, and they were building at least one gargant. And that was the initial invasion, can't wait to see all if the orks that came from the spores.

Keep in mind, Kroot are capable of warp travel, so they're faster and probably have psykers of their own. And it's hinted that Kroot hide things from the Tau, and that they have factory complexes hidden in the mountains of their world. But I don't remember where I read that, so unless someone else can confirm that this is written soneplace, regard me as an old lunatic hermit.

I've read of them hiding plenty of things from the tau (widespread mercenary work being one of them) Its probable that factories could be another, so you're not a hermit yet. The warhammer 40k wiki mentions something like that, if I remember right

2BlackJack1 wrote:
So, if the kroot were to end up fighting the Tau, who would win? (This could end up happening if the Tau were to discover the kroot's widespread mercenary tendencies, and trying to stop them. Hence, sour feelings/amnesty, and possibly an outbreak in violence)

Wouldn't happen...

Tau already know about the kroot mercenary tendencies, thry need it for their genetic diversity, and the tau are aware of unusual landings and departures of kroot ships as well as un sanctioned combat (original tau codex). Stands to reason there is a policy of 'don't ask, don't tell' and 'keep this under the radar, and don't raid the tau, and we won't have any problems...'

In any case, the kroot enclaves are a bare handful of worlds. Tau outnumber them and outmuscle them. To the kroot, it's too good s deal to be a part of the empire.

Back in 2001 GW planned a new release. To add a xeno faction.
They had 2 concepts they really found worth trying and merged them. One was the Kroot, the other was the Tau.
So basically Kroot are a fully developed concept, not a add on or side-show.

Tau got the spotlight, sure.
But we know the Kroot did get "into space" without the Tau. The independence of the Kroot mercs means Kroot got no reason to rebel cause they aren't part of the Tau Empire like Vespids, who are trusted followers of the greater good.
The Kroot got a deal. They can keep their old ways and the Tau pay them for their services....

If Kroot have to fight against Tau, they could just cover their traces , maybe using gear of their Employers. No survivors isn't a challenge for hunters like Kroot....

In "power-levels", Kroot don't have to have more Worlds than Tau to outnumber the Tau. Who knows how many Kroot are out there? Wandering around, gathering new material for their tribes.
Latest Tau codex said the Tau were very happy to have the Kroot to bolster their numbers. How much? A little bit? Who knows?

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Anybody who isn't effected by the pheromone-soaked pages of Codex: Tau is aware that the Kroot deliberately hide their true advancement in order to keep themselves strong.

->This.

Kroot were space and warp capable before they ever met the Tau. Merc kindreds are fully capable of waging war, although they were never fleshed out as having anything to counter tanks or flyers. But as they gained their warsphere tech from the Orks they first met, it seems stupid they would not have lesser tech.

Kroot Mercs could take minor psychic powers for their Master Shaper, so Im sure if they would have been given more fiction they would have had full psykers. But they have absolutely no reason to fight against the Tau. They are their biggest allies.

It's a permanent employer who always pays up, any merc. would be all over that.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think what really matters here is the size difference. In a fair fight kroot would have a chance, but noramaly would be hopelessly outnumbered, not that they wouldn't inflict massive casualties on the tau. Keep in mind, the kroot home world and surrounding system were almost taken by a single ork WAAAAGH.

But Kroot do not fight fair. They would fight a guerrilla war both on planets and in space, and that is something the Tau can not allow themselves to be dragged into, as dealing with it would leave them easy prey for the Tyranids or IoM. The Tau would likely be pragmatic and do whatever they can do keep the Kroot withing their empire. They would try to accomodate Kroot demands as much as possible.

The Tau are pretty resistant to guerilla warfare because despite all their tech and shiny armour, they always use guerilla tactics themselves. A Tau army has no permanent staging posts, no supply dumps - all resupplies are provided directly from orbit. The kroot could go after cities, sure, but unlike humans, Tau don't place value on land ownership and tradition. Humans will refuse to leave their homes because it's their home, damn it! while the Tau will freely pack up and move elsewhere rather than stay in a dangerous location.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Tau are pretty resistant to guerilla warfare because despite all their tech and shiny armour, they always use guerilla tactics themselves. A Tau army has no permanent staging posts, no supply dumps - all resupplies are provided directly from orbit. The kroot could go after cities, sure, but unlike humans, Tau don't place value on land ownership and tradition. Humans will refuse to leave their homes because it's their home, damn it! while the Tau will freely pack up and move elsewhere rather than stay in a dangerous location.

Kroot could go straight to orbit.

Something leaving atmosphere towards orbit is a sitting duck though.

So, for Tau to win, they need space superiority.

Tau News Broadcast:

Greetings citizens of the Tau Empire. I am Chun'Li of the Kor (air caste for you gue'la), official news messenger appointed by the glorious space pope Aun'Va to give you "The Greater News for the Greater Good!"

Today the Office of Acceptable Behavior issued an edict that states "Citizens of the Tau empire. Please be advised that our old comrades the kroot are no longer "enlightened". Any citizen fraternizing with these "space chickens" will be arrested for disruption of the greater good and will have 1 gold star removed from their official papers. Citizens with knowledge of the location of kroot, or knowledge of kroot fraternizers are encouraged to report to the Office of Making the Good Greater. The reward for viable information is 1 gold star on your official papers. . .

BREAKING NEWS:

The orb you see behind me . . . wait. . . What was that? . . . Well I know that the orb wasn't sanctioned news from the Office of . . . What was that? . . . I'm loosing a gold star!!!

(In the background pandemonium ensues as a Giant Kroot evolved from the DNA of a million squiggoths and a million tyranids emerges from the pod!)
SQUAAAAK!!!!

Chun'Li: What in the Greater name of . . . AHH! <splut>

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Something leaving atmosphere towards orbit is a sitting duck though.

So, for Tau to win, they need space superiority.

But fluffwise kroot might be superior to tau in space battles.

All that means in realistic terms is that the Tau have to work quickly enough that they have won by the time the Kroot reinforcements show up.

Since Kroot are also faster than Tau in space, the Tau are pretty much boned. They'll kill hundreds of Kroot in a campaign lasting years, but eventually they'll run out of pulse charges.

 koooaei wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Something leaving atmosphere towards orbit is a sitting duck though.

So, for Tau to win, they need space superiority.

But fluffwise kroot might be superior to tau in space battles.

Warspheres are known for being very tough, but that's it. They're not fast, or manoeuvrable. The last time the kroot tried to make an empire on their own, the orks handed them their own back sides.

Deadnight wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Something leaving atmosphere towards orbit is a sitting duck though.

So, for Tau to win, they need space superiority.

But fluffwise kroot might be superior to tau in space battles.

Warspheres are known for being very tough, but that's it. They're not fast, or manoeuvrable. The last time the kroot tried to make an empire on their own, the orks handed them their own back sides.

IIRC, there's a fleet battle during the Damocles Gulf Crusade (the openimg fight of Da'Lyth invasion where a Kroot Warsphere turns out to be significantly slower than an Imperial battleship.

Deadnight wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Something leaving atmosphere towards orbit is a sitting duck though.

So, for Tau to win, they need space superiority.

But fluffwise kroot might be superior to tau in space battles.

Warspheres are known for being very tough, but that's it. They're not fast, or manoeuvrable. The last time the kroot tried to make an empire on their own, the orks handed them their own back sides.

Kroot Warspheres are very fast compared to Tau spaceships. Anything with a Warp drive is fast compared to Tau spaceships.