insaniak wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Nah, I want GW to improve, not fail.

This.

I see no particular reason to wish the demise of the company. I would just like to see them return to a focus on improving the product, rather than just changing it.

Nkcell wrote:
The apologist arguments for Games Workshop in this thread are embarrassing, and frankly indicative of a fundamental lack of critical thinking or informed decision making in this hobby's playerbase. Games Workshop is a company that literally flaunts the fact that it doesn't care about it's players, and they can do so because people remain willfully ignorant of their own hobby.

Let's discuss some of their aggressively awful business policies that actively hurt the hobby and the players. The first and primary issue is that they have an incredibly paternalistic approach to business; they know best about the hobby, while fans know nothing and can be ignored, They proudly claim that advertising, focus groups, and market research are unneeded. They don't have a Facebook page, there are no GW message boards, there is no direct line of conversation with the fans, they don't have any company community presence whatsoever. They don't even bother with one way communication, as they suddenly stop supporting factions people have invested hundreds of dollars without any announcements, will go years without releasing rules for less popular factions, and will stop production of entire variant game lines with no warning or communication, and definitely no regard to the people who were playing and putting time and money into those products. Now no one expects a business to continue ventures that aren't profitable, but there is a way to pull products while still showing a modicum of consideration for your customer. All companies ultimately prioritize their bottom line, but some are a lot better than others at attempting to engage the customers as as secondary objective. Almost every company is better than that than GW in this regard, which leads to my next topic.

How GW deals with competition. That is, they don't. They honestly think they have a god given right to the miniature market, and anyone else who wants to make miniatures is infringing on these rights. Historically their approach to dealing with any competitor was legally bullying them out of the market, which was very successful up until recently. Luckily judges have now decided that despite their delusions of grandeur, Games Workshop does not have the rights to things like Miniature Gaming Figurines, Orks, Elves, Marines in Space Armor, and other incredibly generic concepts. Competition is good for any market. It makes companies produce better quality products, pay more attention to fan desires, and cut prices. The fact that GW did not want to do these things, and instead simply wanted to exterminate the competition through external means speaks volumes. They clearly have no interest in changing the quality of their product or their business practices, which means they need to find other ways to stay in business...

When GW makes a poor decision, they double down on it instead of attempting an alternative plan of action. Now that they have no legs in a courtroom, and competitor companies are on the rise, their sales have started dropping. This is when a company might actually admit to some mistakes, take an honest look at why they are losing market share, and attempt to address those issues. Instead GW simply hike up prices to make their existing fanbase cover the difference. They prioritize model lines (Space Marines) that make money at the expensive of other factions, and that's why you see stuff like 2-3 sets of updated rulebooks for money-maker factions, while other less popular ones are left years behind. Not to mention the power creep that comes with new rules, which literally creates a pay to win environment, as the more popular factions require more frequent purchases, and become stronger with each update. They are 100% willing to sacrifice game balance for revenue increases, and don't care that the quality of the game suffers. They completely ignore the other viable business path: finding out why people left, and then improving the quality of the game to get these people back and attract new players. That would actually require engaging their playerbase with things like focus groups and direct communication though, and it's much easier to just let people leave, and let the idiots who stay pay the difference via price increases. (These are the people you see in this thread, who say things like "well price hikes are expected")


There is one common theme to all these grievances. They pretty much paint a picture of a company that is at best indifferent towards their playerbase and their product, and at worst shows active contempt for both by trying to dodge competition rather than improve the product, edging out fans of any product line that isn't a top seller, and forcing the remaining ones to pay more in compensation while continuing to ignore them. They really are an awful company, whose continued existence is terrible for the hobby. They continue to exist however, because the fans of this hobby are just sort of dense and ignorant in their misplaced loyalty to this company. Just read this thread. You have people saying things like "they deserve to do well because they were around way back when", "I'll support them because they made the hobby what it is today", "Price Hikes are expected", "It's expected that free rules should be less well made than paid for rulebooks". These are all very poor arguments that make little sense if actually explored, but they do illustrate how willingly people will jump to protect a company that shows such active contempt for them with their business practices. One thing I will point out that is particularly pathetic, is that if you look at the first two arguments (which come up a lot), GW has clearly not only managed to convince themselves that they have a basic fundamental right to the miniature market "just because", but also have managed to instill that in a large chunk of the playerbase as well. How they managed to do this given their complete indifference towards their fans is the real enigma, but I think it has more to do with the players' willful ignorance rather than any active measure on GW's part. If you find yourself supporting GW, you really should sit back and actually think about what you are doing with your money. I highly doubt you would be as willing to invest in a bank, restaurant, grocery store, tech company that treated you the same way. But hey man, GW has been doing it forever, so I guess they have the right to act like this, right? Nils Bejerot would be proud.

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


No doubt, your critical thinking skills have led you to a decades long internationally successful business. Tell all of us non critical thinkers of it and the secret to how you made your millions.

You misunderstand. GW has nailed their strategy to a tee, and clearly has some shrewd businessmen behind it. It's the playerbase who buys into their awful system that lack the critical thinking skills. As I said to the other poster, this is why I'm criticizing the players and defenders of GW. Buying their models because you really just love them is one thing, but defending the company after they show such clear unmarked contempt for their players is something I just can't wrap my head around.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


No doubt, your critical thinking skills have led you to a decades long internationally successful business. Tell all of us non critical thinkers of it and the secret to how you made your millions.

You misunderstand. GW has nailed their strategy to a tee, and clearly has some shrewd businessmen behind it. It's the playerbase who buys into their awful system that lack the critical thinking skills. As I said to the other poster, this is why I'm criticizing the players and defenders of GW. Buying their models because you really just love them is one thing, but defending the company after they show such clear unmarked contempt for their players is something I just can't wrap my head around.

I ask you again, what have you created, based on your great knowledge, that people are interested in enough to fork over to you several millions in cash? Or are you just someone who has nothing to offer except telling people they're stupid for liking something?

Ah, the Swiss Variation of the "I know you are, but what am I?" defence.

Clever girl.

 agnosto wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


No doubt, your critical thinking skills have led you to a decades long internationally successful business. Tell all of us non critical thinkers of it and the secret to how you made your millions.

You misunderstand. GW has nailed their strategy to a tee, and clearly has some shrewd businessmen behind it. It's the playerbase who buys into their awful system that lack the critical thinking skills. As I said to the other poster, this is why I'm criticizing the players and defenders of GW. Buying their models because you really just love them is one thing, but defending the company after they show such clear unmarked contempt for their players is something I just can't wrap my head around.

I ask you again, what have you created, based on your great knowledge, that people are interested in enough to fork over to you several millions in cash? Or are you just someone who has nothing to offer except telling people they're stupid for liking something?

Ah, the Swiss Variation of the "I know you are, but what am I?" defence.

Clever girl.

Never know. A man that make such sweeping comments on the low intelligence of people because they like something he doesn't might actually have something cool going on that we might want to know about. Not usually, though..

You could always refute his point by specifying how GW is not showing disdain for their customers; it would be a much more erudite approach.

Herzlos wrote:

Relapse wrote:
When a man starts out by calling people stupid, I have found that the approach I used makes any actually worth talking to reflect on themselves a bit, opening the way for further discussion.

Has that approach ever worked before? Further discussion was already open, you just need to engage in discussion instead of digs.

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


No doubt, your critical thinking skills have led you to a decades long internationally successful business. Tell all of us non critical thinkers of it and the secret to how you made your millions.

You misunderstand. GW has nailed their strategy to a tee, and clearly has some shrewd businessmen behind it. It's the playerbase who buys into their awful system that lack the critical thinking skills. As I said to the other poster, this is why I'm criticizing the players and defenders of GW. Buying their models because you really just love them is one thing, but defending the company after they show such clear unmarked contempt for their players is something I just can't wrap my head around.

I ask you again, what have you created, based on your great knowledge, that people are interested in enough to fork over to you several millions in cash? Or are you just someone who has nothing to offer except telling people they're stupid for liking something?

Do you believe that only people who have created multi-million dollar businesses have the right to an opinion? Do you believe that only those people can make an informed opinion? I don't believe either be true, but that's really not related to my points at all. What are you doing here is called a red herring argument. Instead of trying to create some type of tangential related side argument by asking me that frivolous question, why don't you actually address the issues I brought up about Games Workshop's business practices? Or better yet directly address my point by providing an on-point counter argument on why you feel it's not ignorant to knowingly give money to a company with such horrific marketing strategies?

Also your are the second person to put words in my mouth. I never called anyone stupid or an idiot. I was harsh with my words, but I think I chose them correctly, and I've yet to see anyone make a valid counterargument to my actual points, beyond stating how hostile I came off in my post.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Spoiler:

Herzlos wrote:

Relapse wrote:
When a man starts out by calling people stupid, I have found that the approach I used makes any actually worth talking to reflect on themselves a bit, opening the way for further discussion.

Has that approach ever worked before? Further discussion was already open, you just need to engage in discussion instead of digs.

Several times. His opening comments would have had some merit without the personal attacks on people that shut down any discussion. As it is, he sabotaged his points with the attacks.
One would as easily ask how many times a conversation where someone opened up by calling people stupid and peppered the sentiment throughout the rest of their statement goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


No doubt, your critical thinking skills have led you to a decades long internationally successful business. Tell all of us non critical thinkers of it and the secret to how you made your millions.

You misunderstand. GW has nailed their strategy to a tee, and clearly has some shrewd businessmen behind it. It's the playerbase who buys into their awful system that lack the critical thinking skills. As I said to the other poster, this is why I'm criticizing the players and defenders of GW. Buying their models because you really just love them is one thing, but defending the company after they show such clear unmarked contempt for their players is something I just can't wrap my head around.

I ask you again, what have you created, based on your great knowledge, that people are interested in enough to fork over to you several millions in cash? Or are you just someone who has nothing to offer except telling people they're stupid for liking something?

Do you believe that only people who have created multi-million dollar businesses have the right to an opinion? Do you believe that only those people can make an informed opinion? I don't believe either be true, but that's really not related to my points at all. What are you doing here is called a red herring argument. Instead of trying to create some type of tangential related side argument by asking me that frivolous question, why don't you actually address the issues I brought up about Games Workshop's business practices? Or better yet directly address my point by providing an on-point counter argument on why you feel it's not ignorant to knowingly give money to a company with such horrific marketing strategies?

Also your are the second person to put words in my mouth. I never called anyone stupid or an idiot. I was harsh with my words, but I think I chose them correctly, and I've yet to see anyone make a valid counterargument to my actual points, beyond stating how hostile I came off in my post.

I believe people who I don't know opening a conversation by calling me stupid should expect to be asked what makes them a cut above. In your case, you've shown me nothing.

By insisting you were called stupid when you weren't really isn't helping your "not stupid" argument.

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


I believe people who I don't know opening a conversation by calling me stupid should expect to be asked what makes them a cut above. In your case, you've shown me nothing.

I've now directly asked you to please address my points instead of my perceived insult against you, and yet you continue to ignore the actual meat of the debate. You've spent 3-4 posts bemoaning your insulted honor (repeatedly point out word choice that I never actually employed) without adding a shred of actual substance to the debate. That makes it clear that either you don't have a logical counter argument or simply don't want to engage in an actual debate. I'd gladly be willing to engage in a discussion with you if you can get over the fact that I called you ignorant, which I will say you've done nothing to disprove so far.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Spoiler:

Herzlos wrote:

Relapse wrote:
When a man starts out by calling people stupid, I have found that the approach I used makes any actually worth talking to reflect on themselves a bit, opening the way for further discussion.

Has that approach ever worked before? Further discussion was already open, you just need to engage in discussion instead of digs.

Several times. His opening comments would have had some merit without the personal attacks on people that shut down any discussion. As it is, he sabotaged his points with the attacks.
One would as easily ask how many times a conversation where someone opened up by calling people stupid and peppered the sentiment throughout the rest of their statement goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


No doubt, your critical thinking skills have led you to a decades long internationally successful business. Tell all of us non critical thinkers of it and the secret to how you made your millions.

You misunderstand. GW has nailed their strategy to a tee, and clearly has some shrewd businessmen behind it. It's the playerbase who buys into their awful system that lack the critical thinking skills. As I said to the other poster, this is why I'm criticizing the players and defenders of GW. Buying their models because you really just love them is one thing, but defending the company after they show such clear unmarked contempt for their players is something I just can't wrap my head around.

I ask you again, what have you created, based on your great knowledge, that people are interested in enough to fork over to you several millions in cash? Or are you just someone who has nothing to offer except telling people they're stupid for liking something?

Do you believe that only people who have created multi-million dollar businesses have the right to an opinion? Do you believe that only those people can make an informed opinion? I don't believe either be true, but that's really not related to my points at all. What are you doing here is called a red herring argument. Instead of trying to create some type of tangential related side argument by asking me that frivolous question, why don't you actually address the issues I brought up about Games Workshop's business practices? Or better yet directly address my point by providing an on-point counter argument on why you feel it's not ignorant to knowingly give money to a company with such horrific marketing strategies?

Also your are the second person to put words in my mouth. I never called anyone stupid or an idiot. I was harsh with my words, but I think I chose them correctly, and I've yet to see anyone make a valid counterargument to my actual points, beyond stating how hostile I came off in my post.

I believe people who I don't know opening a conversation by calling me stupid should expect to be asked what makes them a cut above. In your case, you've shown me nothing.

By insisting you were called stupid when you weren't really isn't helping your "not stupid" argument.

I suggest you reread his post or look at his quotes. Unless comments saying people who might like and buy GW products lack critical thinking or are idiots equate to something other than stupid in your dictionary, I'd say the point stands.

Some quotes of his I posted earlier you might have missed:

"The apologist arguments for Games Workshop in this thread are embarrassing, and frankly indicative of a fundamental lack of critical thinking or informed decision making in this hobby's playerbase"

" it's much easier to just let people leave, and let the idiots who stay pay the difference via price increases. (These are the people you see in this thread, who say things like "well price hikes are expected") "

So, not stupid then?

Even if you've decided to take offence as his use of the term idiot, you're really going to have to persuade me that continuing to pay higher and higher prices for essentially the same thing (often recycled) to compensate for fewer and fewer customers being prepared to stay on that treadmill isn't at least a little idiotic?

But then, I guess you're identifying with that description otherwise you wouldn't feel offended, so I don't think there's much discussion to be had on that point.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Again, not hate, critical.

I happen to have plenty of time on my hands right now, and my objectives in posting aren't something you're in a position to really judge.

But this isn't about me, is it?

 Talys wrote:

Trasvi wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Oh yes -- a whole new brush range that's way bigger than the old one, new paints, a line of figurine cases, and something like a codex a month, and the Khorne fellas that I can't remember the name of.

Soooo... if GW Death Spiraled anymore, they'd need new releases twice a week O.o

A lot of people see this as furiously bailing out the boat as its sinking: yes, they're working hard (and producing some amazing kits!) but ultimately they're not getting anywhere.

You would hope that with the amazing rate of releases, they would be improving. Last year saw a significant increase in release schedule over the previous, but ended up with falling sales. I think we might see the same again this year despite (or perhaps because of) the rapid release rate.
Compare this to Warmachine, Infinity, XWing where the release schedule is much more leisurely yet sales appear to be growing steadily.

So yes, I think if we DO see GW releasing every Wednesday AND Saturday and they still don't increase their sales numbers, that definitely would be signs of imminent collapse.

>.<

Those models are very expensive to tool up and produce in plastic. I don't think any other company could even afford to do so. Of course, since we don't have their financials, it's impossible to obsess over their performance.

An alternate view: 40k is selling better than ever, Fantasy was flagging, and LoTR is fading into nothingness. In the midst of this, GW is still highly profitable, enough so to produce TONS of new sculpts (and books and art, etc.) and make them a reality.

If all those releases were just books, yes, I'd agree that it was all just a desperate last gasp. But they aren't. They are a brick ton of real, actual models -- that people who enjoy the aesthetic think are the some of GW's best work ever, with even more models coming down the pipeline. In half a year, they're producing more new stuff than the next 3 largest companies put together without breaking a sweat.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:
After seeing White Dwarves selling on Ebay for $15 and more, I think AoS is going to be a shot in the arm for Fantasy instead of a nail in the coffin.

No, that's got to be an anomaly or some sort of weird groupthink. Assuming people are buying them for $10 and they're not simply being listed for that that is.

The mini is available in the box from Sat, and one could simply download the magazine (at no cost, if you're that way inclined) if you wanted to read it.

I suspect the free mini has caused a spike in demand for WD, which I expect GW forgot to account for, given the they've underestimated demand in the past (cause research is so otiose) but anyone paying more than cover price + postage is being a little illogical.

Or somehow some people have convinced themselves this issue will become a collector's item.

 Azreal13 wrote:
All ways up, giving something away with something people are allegedly keen to buy already makes not a lick of sense, unless there's particularly intense competition in the area.

Look at X Wing starters last year, people really wanted those, and when stock started getting thin on the ground they started paying above RRP for them. I don't see the same thing happening with AoS (which is partly due to GW not having the supply chain issues FFG did, but still..)

 Azreal13 wrote:
Which makes more sense than giving stuff away because he is confident it will sell.

 snurl wrote:
Good value?!?
Skull Pass had 100 figures and a rule book for $60.

Aos has 47 figures and a 4 page rule folder for $125.

Bah.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Our friendly, not so local, game store got in twelve, sold four, and are holding two for eventual pickup.

Which puts it dead even with the last version of Warhammer*, and way, way, way behind the Magic the Gathering release.

Aside from the copies put aside, none have sold since the first three days - but then the folks that got them that first day most likely went in to the store specifically to get AoS (for good or bad).

They expect to sell the rest by the end of the month, when they will drop down to two on the shelf.

If the store were more local, I would see how well Kings of War might catch on.

Much as I love Kings of War, it just does not get the same amount of exposure - with all of the local group having bought their copies straight from Mantic, or are waiting on the Kickstarter.

The Auld Grump

* With the same two people holding their copies for later.... The store had already put their copies aside before they had even reserved them.

 Talys wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Orock wrote:
My store still has 45 of the 50 copies im sure they were forced to order in order to guarantee shipment on time. And from everyone I have talked to who has played it for the last week, multiple games, it just dosent have the same fun. That right there is the killer.

Strange. I know one of my local guys got his in on time and didn't order nearly that many boxes.....

And our local group actually has people pretty excited. But each area is it's own little hamlet. I'm finding that my friends that spend a fair amount of time on boards like this are ones that don't care for it much or aren't into giving it a chance while people who don't seem to spend nearly the same amount (if any) of time on forums like this are excited.

There aren't any stores in our area thought bought 50 boxes, or if they did, they didn't stick them on the shelf. One place only got in something like 10 (and sold out when they opened Saturday... brilliant, lol). And they had theirs on Wednesday for the Saturday launch, same as they get stuff every week.

 JamesY wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are other towers and things in the world from other companies.

Once upon a time, GW taught you how to make your own terrain using cheaply available materials and tools. They even did a book, which I've got.

They did more than one, I've got two different ones on the shelf, amazing books.

BeAfraid wrote:
Let's See.

Saga rule book: £25

4 Mounted, or 6 Foot miniatures from Gripping Beast: £12

That means that 40 mounted or 60 foot comes to £120

And, Fantasy Miniatures from other, similar companies are roughly an equivalent price (Reaper, Iron Wind, Thunderbolt Mountain, etc.).

I got roughly 150 Thunderbolt Mountain elves, and an equivalent number of Heavy Goblin Warriors and Archers for around $750. That was a little less than $3/figure, for what are some of the best sculpted fantasy miniatures ever produced.

Now, I understand that there is a certain aesthetic to GW's products, to which people are attracted.

But they are really being taken advantage of considering the prices being charged for these products.

GW are not Meirce, or one of the other companies who do legitimately high-end miniatures.

Most of the miniatures GW makes are rather clumsy and over-the-top in their detailing and sculpting when compared to even Reaper.

But, I suppose that Stockholm Syndrome is pretty strong when dealing with people who are basically held hostage by a company like GW.

MB

 Azreal13 wrote:
So, like he said, he got what he considered to be some of the greatest fantasy sculpts ever produced for a little less than $3 a model, whereas what he considers the rather clumsy, over the top GW models aren't noticeably cheaper.

Plus the core troop boxes are the least egregious of GWs pricing sins.

So, you've not really refuted his point, you've just listed some prices.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
So, like he said, he got what he considered to be some of the greatest fantasy sculpts ever produced for a little less than $3 a model, whereas what he considers the rather clumsy, over the top GW models aren't noticeably cheaper.

Plus the core troop boxes are the least egregious of GWs pricing sins.

So, you've not really refuted his point, you've just listed some prices.

Actually, if you read his post more carefully, he was the one who brought up the issue of price.
He also said what he considers, which is a matter of opinion.
He also cites gripping beast as being a good alternative, but I' m not convinced.

Example, 12 undead for $28.17

http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/REV02_Revenant_Booster_One_12--product--5185.html

GW has 20, that can be assembled in many different ways, not including all the extra bits for $35

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vampire-Counts-Zombies

Quality wise, I don't see a lot of difference, but YMMV.

And at no point did he argue the metal elves were cheaper.

Yes, value is a matter of opinion, hence why I used the word 'considers' twice in my post quite deliberately.

 Hulksmash wrote:

BeAfraid wrote:


But, I suppose that Stockholm Syndrome is pretty strong when dealing with people who are basically held hostage by a company like GW.

MB

Oh good. If my opinion differs from yours I'm someone suffering from a psychological disorder.....

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
So, like he said, he got what he considered to be some of the greatest fantasy sculpts ever produced for a little less than $3 a model, whereas what he considers the rather clumsy, over the top GW models aren't noticeably cheaper.

Plus the core troop boxes are the least egregious of GWs pricing sins.

So, you've not really refuted his point, you've just listed some prices.

Actually, if you read his post more carefully, he was the one who brought up the issue of price.
He also said what he considers, which is a matter of opinion.
He also cites gripping beast as being a good alternative, but I' m not convinced.

Example, 12 undead for $28.17

http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/REV02_Revenant_Booster_One_12--product--5185.html

GW has 20, that can be assembled in many different ways, not including all the extra bits for $35

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vampire-Counts-Zombies

Quality wise, I don't see a lot of difference, but YMMV.

And at no point did he argue the metal elves were cheaper.

Yes, value is a matter of opinion, hence why I used the word 'considers' twice in my post quite deliberately.

He was citing prices quite heavily , what do you think he meant?

What he said, rather than something..else?

 jah-joshua wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

Reality-Torrent wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

not trying to be passive aggressive, mate...
i don't try and pick fights here

Well said.

No, not really.

seriously, Vermis, i am not here to pick fights with anyone...
i am just here to share my enjoyment of toy soldiers with others who enjoy them too...

if you have something to say, at least quote me in context...
you know, the context of responding to someone who has singled me out as some passive aggressive poster, instead of refuting my statements...
especially when i have never put anybody down in my near decade of posting on Dakka...

so, what is your problem with my post???
feel free to get it off your chest...
let's at least be open and honest here, instead of just sniping at people...

i don't go ranting about how i hate any mini companies, because i love the whole industry...
i don't go wishing for the demise of a company that has given me 30 years of joy, and many lifelong friendships...
i don't go around telling people that their brand of fun is wrong, or stupid...
i would rather get along with people than have arguments...
what is wrong with that???
i am missing the point of your post, since you didn't give any context to why you don't like what i said...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I remember the discouragement in seeing the amount of Finecast in the Necron and Dark Eldar lines as it came out. I am still subbing models for Crypteks and DE characters until that last of that crap gets out of the system.

i am just glad i got the new Lelith and Urien in metal before the switch...
i can only imagine how droopy Urien would get in Finecast, and that is aside from all of the preparation and easily breaking issues...
i was amazed to find how bendy Finecast is, and bummed about how easy small bits break (like Sgt. Chronus' scanner, that thing needed to be replaced with a pin on both minis, one of which arrived pre-broken for my convenience)...
it just feels wrong...

as big a fan of GW minis as i am, i can't defend some of their choices at all...

cheers
jah

 Azreal13 wrote:
Ah, so because I'm "jumping" on Jah (and in no way responding to his posts, often because they're a response to mine) you're jumping on me?

Got it.