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Just trying to put together my army with the new rules from the codex and am trying to decide what the best method of marker lights we have in the codex using the hunters contingency. Skyways are out as you need to take 3 hammerheads to take any. Which leaves: Pathfinders and Marker Drones

Pathfinders - 11 points, have to remain still. Can infiltrate.
Marker Drone Squad - 14 points, Compared to pathfinders have: +1 Toughness, +1 Armor Save, -1 Ballistic Skill, and can JSJ.

To me, Marker Drones seem to be the winner. Having BS2 hurts, but if you take a bunch of small squads (4 Marker Drones) and have 3 fire together they all get BS3.

What's your opinion?

BS5 Drone Controller guy and you're laughing.

I pretty much always have a buffmander in a squad of MP suits and 6 ML drones. Targetlocks + buffmander makes the crisis suits fire at one unit and hit them really hard while the drones fire BS5 with rerolls at another, damn near guaranteed 6 lights on the main target you want dead.

Aside from that i usually just use random ML in various squads to try and cascade my ML. I used to buy the ML+TL on my FW Shas'uis but i found thats a bad idea since its expensive and forces him to remain stationary. The 3pts cheaper ML drone is a vastly better option since it can move and shoot and you dont sacrifice 1-3 shots to use it. Yeah its BS2, but thats better than a completely stationary BS3 and less harming shots.

I find ML support isnt as much of a gamebreaker requirement people think it is. Aside from my primary target for the turn (usually a termie squad, an MC, etc etc) the rest of my army only uses it as it happens to work.

I hate pathfinders. Both offensively and ML-wise. Theyre 11pts each, paper thin models that have a huuuuge target over their head because of the markerlights. And i hate their gun options purely because they are 1) on a stupid squishy unit and 2) invalidates the pulse carbines via range or desired target.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
I pretty much always have a buffmander in a squad of MP suits and 6 ML drones. Targetlocks + buffmander makes the crisis suits fire at one unit and hit them really hard while the drones fire BS5 with rerolls at another, damn near guaranteed 6 lights on the main target you want dead.

Aside from that i usually just use random ML in various squads to try and cascade my ML. I used to buy the ML+TL on my FW Shas'uis but i found thats a bad idea since its expensive and forces him to remain stationary. The 3pts cheaper ML drone is a vastly better option since it can move and shoot and you dont sacrifice 1-3 shots to use it. Yeah its BS2, but thats better than a completely stationary BS3 and less harming shots.

I find ML support isnt as much of a gamebreaker requirement people think it is. Aside from my primary target for the turn (usually a termie squad, an MC, etc etc) the rest of my army only uses it as it happens to work.

I hate pathfinders. Both offensively and ML-wise. Theyre 11pts each, paper thin models that have a huuuuge target over their head because of the markerlights. And i hate their gun options purely because they are 1) on a stupid squishy unit and 2) invalidates the pulse carbines via range or desired target.

That and the fact that the Ion or Rail rifles cost more than another pathfinder.

A guy I know uses pathfinders extensively and facerolls with them.

That too.

I mean, the guns are nasty. But theyre in a terrible unit to me and it baffles me people somehow get more than 1 turn of use out of them. Mine always die the moment they become visible, even with 3+ cover via lucky objective nearby in ruins/rubble. They are so soooo squishy.

I was hoping to god in the new dex we got the option to grab 1 in a squad of 10+ firewarriors (10 so you cant spam it via tiny units, but can still bring drones if you want with a devilfish and yes i use devilfish). The guns are insanely good but NOT ON PATHFINDERS

anyway, that wasnt off topic at all right lol.

 Frozocrone wrote:
BS5 Drone Controller guy and you're laughing.

Except with this new codex you do not want to do that, as the buffmander is better used elsewhere to give all his special rules to other shooting units. hence why i'm wondering what is now the best option available

I have heard people talking of allying in Darkstrider with Skyray's and min Fire Warriors to a Hunter Contingent. what are opinions on that?

Technically that is correct however nothing says it has to be a buffmander. The buffmander part only makes them reroll, but theyre BS5 because of ANY commander + Drone controller

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Technically that is correct however nothing says it has to be a buffmander. The buffmander part only makes them reroll, but theyre BS5 because of ANY commander + Drone controller

But with the hunter contingent you are really limited to 1 commander unless you take 1 of 2 cadre that are point expensive

Add a CAD with 1-2 commanders and 2 minimal FW squads. Yeah, they lose the Super Unit firing rule, but not that expensive to do this and 2 minimal squads of FW are dirt cheap and a non-buffmander Commander isnt that expensive either for what he does.

Then again, personally i rarely use commanders outside a buffmander anyway. Theyre just super expensive Crisis suits with double wounds and BS5 but the same T4 problem so the multiwound often gets ignored.

Tetras for the win backed up by skyrays.

Col. Dash wrote:
Tetras for the win backed up by skyrays.

You cannot take tetras with the new formations, so that gets knocked out

Nor can you take skyrays in any level of practicality.

FORTUNATLY, a minimal CAD unlock of etheral+2FW teams will clock at mere 140 points.

It is a bit bumming to know that you cant bring very many skyrays into the big formation. You can bring the fliers but who the gak is going to do that lol.

But even 1 skyray can add a lot to the combined fire. Then again i dont get why everyone thinks we need to max out networked MLs now. Nothing stops us from using them the way we used to - fire ML first, then fire the unit you want to use it with. Only this time its multiple units acting as one.

So to recap, in case I've missed anything, our options for markerlights:

1) pathfinders
2) marker drones
3) Skyrays
4) tetras

Looking at the pros and cons of each source:

1) pathfinders:

Pros - cheap, great amount of markerlights per points paid (1 hit per 22 points paid each shooting phase)

Cons - immobile, fragile, lose a great deal of marker ability per wound suffered/shot fired

How to get around their limitations to maximize their output: run MSU to take advantage of +1 BS from the hunter contingent if taken within it. Also, if within 12" of a commander from the hunter contingent, they can run and shoot with no penalty (only in that order) to gain mobility without snap firing, as well as popping out from BLOS terrain. Sadly they can never go back haha. With these increases, they will increase their efficiency to just under 1 hit per 17 points paid.

2) marker drones:

Pros - can be hidden inside units to increase their durability. Have a good amount of markerlights per point. (1 hit per 36 points per shooting phase) Drone controller can increase their ballistic skill, increasing their efficiency exponentially to 15 points per markerlight hit with a 2 firing models and 13 points per markerlight hit for 6 models firing.

Cons - even more fragile and exposed on their own. Drone controller costs more. Using benefits of drone controller mean that the unit providing the benefits will not be able to utilize the marker drones, so whichever unit buffmander is in won't get markerlights unless you have some from a different source.

How to get around their limitations to maximize their output: run as many as you need in a durable squad (perhaps broadsides, but that's a really high value squad) and then run some from a secondary source in case the squad with the marker drones in the squad itself need to benefit from markerlights. If you could get networked markerlights in a drone controller squad that is reasonably durable, that would be the big ticket item; however I don't see how to do all of that.

3) Skyrays:

Pros - great firepower. Skyfire. Networked markerlights. Durable. Good value for what you get. Networked markerlights (yes I said this twice on purpose)

Cons - expensive in terms of raw markerlight support (86 points per markerlight hit per shooting phase). Can't link it's shooting if taken outside of the Taucurion, so networking the markerlights is less amazing. Very tough to take inside a Taucurion

How to maximize its output: use one. If you can manage to field one inside a Taucurion - no easy task - then it's value skyrockets. Big tax to do so but also big rewards

4) Tetras:

Pros - durable, mobile, mostly immune to small arms fire. Twin-linked markerlights natively. Medium markerlight-to-points ratio at 1 markerlight hit per 23 points spent each shooting phase. Can be taken in squadrons of 3

Cons - literally cannot be taken inside a Taucurion. Falls over at pretty much the first failed cover save vs AT weaponry. Assuming that you want to take a Taucurion (and who doesn't?) it's a tough sell to take a just a squad from an allied contingent. Taking a CAD is even more expensive, but does allow multiple squadrons of tetras to be fielded.

Overall, I think the best thing to do is probably to take a single squad of drones with a buffmander, but not as the only models. They would be bought as upgrades for crisis suits, broadsides, etc. You would then need a secondary source of markerlights outside of buffmander's squad. Pathfinders are probably good enough to take as a small (5 man probably) squad inside the Taucurion since I think they're the best choice out of Piranhas Vespids and Drone squads. Then I might take an allied detachment with Darkstrider, a single strike squad and a 2 model terra squad with a single Skyray. But that's just me

Sorry for the book but those are my thoughts after a lot of consideration. What do you guys think? Have you found a good combination for the markerlights?

 luke1705 wrote:
So to recap, in case I've missed anything, our options for markerlights:

1) pathfinders
2) marker drones
3) Skyrays
4) tetras

Looking at the pros and cons of each source:

1) pathfinders:

Pros - cheap, great amount of markerlights per points paid (1 hit per 22 points paid each shooting phase)

Cons - immobile, fragile, lose a great deal of marker ability per wound suffered/shot fired

How to get around their limitations to maximize their output: run MSU to take advantage of +1 BS from the hunter contingent if taken within it. Also, if within 12" of a commander from the hunter contingent, they can run and shoot with no penalty (only in that order) to gain mobility without snap firing, as well as popping out from BLOS terrain. Sadly they can never go back haha. With these increases, they will increase their efficiency to just under 1 hit per 17 points paid.

2) marker drones:

Pros - can be hidden inside units to increase their durability. Have a good amount of markerlights per point. (1 hit per 36 points per shooting phase) Drone controller can increase their ballistic skill, increasing their efficiency exponentially to 15 points per markerlight hit with a 2 firing models and 13 points per markerlight hit for 6 models firing.

Cons - even more fragile and exposed on their own. Drone controller costs more. Using benefits of drone controller mean that the unit providing the benefits will not be able to utilize the marker drones, so whichever unit buffmander is in won't get markerlights unless you have some from a different source.

How to get around their limitations to maximize their output: run as many as you need in a durable squad (perhaps broadsides, but that's a really high value squad) and then run some from a secondary source in case the squad with the marker drones in the squad itself need to benefit from markerlights. If you could get networked markerlights in a drone controller squad that is reasonably durable, that would be the big ticket item; however I don't see how to do all of that.

3) Skyrays:

Pros - great firepower. Skyfire. Networked markerlights. Durable. Good value for what you get. Networked markerlights (yes I said this twice on purpose)

Cons - expensive in terms of raw markerlight support (86 points per markerlight hit per shooting phase). Can't link it's shooting if taken outside of the Taucurion, so networking the markerlights is less amazing. Very tough to take inside a Taucurion

How to maximize its output: use one. If you can manage to field one inside a Taucurion - no easy task - then it's value skyrockets. Big tax to do so but also big rewards

4) Tetras:

Pros - durable, mobile, mostly immune to small arms fire. Twin-linked markerlights natively. Medium markerlight-to-points ratio at 1 markerlight hit per 23 points spent each shooting phase. Can be taken in squadrons of 3

Cons - literally cannot be taken inside a Taucurion. Falls over at pretty much the first failed cover save vs AT weaponry. Assuming that you want to take a Taucurion (and who doesn't?) it's a tough sell to take a just a squad from an allied contingent. Taking a CAD is even more expensive, but does allow multiple squadrons of tetras to be fielded.

Overall, I think the best thing to do is probably to take a single squad of drones with a buffmander, but not as the only models. They would be bought as upgrades for crisis suits, broadsides, etc. You would then need a secondary source of markerlights outside of buffmander's squad. Pathfinders are probably good enough to take as a small (5 man probably) squad inside the Taucurion since I think they're the best choice out of Piranhas Vespids and Drone squads. Then I might take an allied detachment with Darkstrider, a single strike squad and a 2 model terra squad with a single Skyray. But that's just me

Sorry for the book but those are my thoughts after a lot of consideration. What do you guys think? Have you found a good combination for the markerlights?

Pretty good summary. One thing of note though is marker drones are much more suvivable compared to pathfinders. T4, 4+ armor save, Jump, shoot, jump back into cover. And buffmander is better used in a squad of crisis suits to spread his abilities to other units during combined fire.

I should clarify - I don't play Tau yet haha. Mark with #Theorycraft until I finish assembling and painting.

You're right about the JSJ from the drones though. It's definitely hugely advantageous. I just don't think I can bring myself to field them haha. Such puny little robots.

I'm going to run Buffmander with my Broadsides to do just that. Also, in my list I have....1 crisis suit. I'm sure I'll playtest various iterations

Drones are the most reliable to me. Even without DCs around. Reason being, Skyrays' markerlight potential are merely a side bonus, you dont EVER take one because it offers 2 markerlights because its expensive as gak for said marks and it cant move if it wants to reliably fire both due to vehicle problems. Heck my skyray i use all the time usually just buffs itself to BS5, fires its SMS, and if i got the 2nd light cool if not o well i brought it for the missileboat and giant mobile wall not the markerlights.

Pathfinders are even worse in the mobility department and i dont care how much cover they have, T3 means they die quick. Theres a reason why rate of fire kills terminators - eventually you fail that 2+ armor and you have no backup. T4 at least makes most of the high rate of fire guns wound on a 4+, T3 makes it all wound on a 3+ and everything else a 2+. Even with something giving my pathfinders a 3+ cover, they die by turn 3 at the latest, usually during the first firing turn my opponent gets though. I'll take them in large games because then i can sacrifice the points easier to make them double as a distraction unit, since they do draw a lot of firepower.

Dont own any tetras neither do i plan to get any. They seem like nothing more than a huge price sink for a slightly more reliable markerlight platform....price sink as in real money not points.

 luke1705 wrote:
So to recap, in case I've missed anything, our options for markerlights:

1) pathfinders
2) marker drones
3) Skyrays
4) tetras

Looking at the pros and cons of each source:

1) pathfinders:

Pros - cheap, great amount of markerlights per points paid (1 hit per 22 points paid each shooting phase)

Cons - immobile, fragile, lose a great deal of marker ability per wound suffered/shot fired

How to get around their limitations to maximize their output: run MSU to take advantage of +1 BS from the hunter contingent if taken within it. Also, if within 12" of a commander from the hunter contingent, they can run and shoot with no penalty (only in that order) to gain mobility without snap firing, as well as popping out from BLOS terrain. Sadly they can never go back haha. With these increases, they will increase their efficiency to just under 1 hit per 17 points paid.

2) marker drones:

Pros - can be hidden inside units to increase their durability. Have a good amount of markerlights per point. (1 hit per 36 points per shooting phase) Drone controller can increase their ballistic skill, increasing their efficiency exponentially to 15 points per markerlight hit with a 2 firing models and 13 points per markerlight hit for 6 models firing.

Cons - even more fragile and exposed on their own. Drone controller costs more. Using benefits of drone controller mean that the unit providing the benefits will not be able to utilize the marker drones, so whichever unit buffmander is in won't get markerlights unless you have some from a different source.

How to get around their limitations to maximize their output: run as many as you need in a durable squad (perhaps broadsides, but that's a really high value squad) and then run some from a secondary source in case the squad with the marker drones in the squad itself need to benefit from markerlights. If you could get networked markerlights in a drone controller squad that is reasonably durable, that would be the big ticket item; however I don't see how to do all of that.

3) Skyrays:

Pros - great firepower. Skyfire. Networked markerlights. Durable. Good value for what you get. Networked markerlights (yes I said this twice on purpose)

Cons - expensive in terms of raw markerlight support (86 points per markerlight hit per shooting phase). Can't link it's shooting if taken outside of the Taucurion, so networking the markerlights is less amazing. Very tough to take inside a Taucurion

How to maximize its output: use one. If you can manage to field one inside a Taucurion - no easy task - then it's value skyrockets. Big tax to do so but also big rewards

4) Tetras:

Pros - durable, mobile, mostly immune to small arms fire. Twin-linked markerlights natively. Medium markerlight-to-points ratio at 1 markerlight hit per 23 points spent each shooting phase. Can be taken in squadrons of 3

Cons - literally cannot be taken inside a Taucurion. Falls over at pretty much the first failed cover save vs AT weaponry. Assuming that you want to take a Taucurion (and who doesn't?) it's a tough sell to take a just a squad from an allied contingent. Taking a CAD is even more expensive, but does allow multiple squadrons of tetras to be fielded.

Overall, I think the best thing to do is probably to take a single squad of drones with a buffmander, but not as the only models. They would be bought as upgrades for crisis suits, broadsides, etc. You would then need a secondary source of markerlights outside of buffmander's squad. Pathfinders are probably good enough to take as a small (5 man probably) squad inside the Taucurion since I think they're the best choice out of Piranhas Vespids and Drone squads. Then I might take an allied detachment with Darkstrider, a single strike squad and a 2 model terra squad with a single Skyray. But that's just me

Sorry for the book but those are my thoughts after a lot of consideration. What do you guys think? Have you found a good combination for the markerlights?

You missed sniper drone team Firesight Marksmen, you can get 3 bs5 lights per team. Not that any one will got this route,you also have all the flyer marklights.

Yaknow, that reminds me.

Sniper drone teams are completely missing in the formations. Huh? That sucks.

Imagine if they could be taken. They have drone controllers, meaning any and all drones in a combined fire attack are suddenly BS5. Right now we need a commander to do that, which probably will be restricted to buffmanders.

That sucks. I actually like sniper teams but theyre always outshined by bsides and skyrays.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yaknow, that reminds me.

Sniper drone teams are completely missing in the formations. Huh? That sucks.

Imagine if they could be taken. They have drone controllers, meaning any and all drones in a combined fire attack are suddenly BS5. Right now we need a commander to do that, which probably will be restricted to buffmanders.

That sucks. I actually like sniper teams but theyre always outshined by bsides and skyrays.

No they aren't. Hunter Cadre, final bullet point.

barnowl wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
So to recap, in case I've missed anything, our options for markerlights:
snip

You missed sniper drone team Firesight Marksmen, you can get 3 bs5 lights per team. Not that any one will got this route,you also have all the flyer marklights.

In 6th I had considered using sniper drone teams. 84 points for 3 BS5 markerlights and 3 Sniper Drones isn't terrible.

Oh, so they are. Missed that one. Nice

Question - If a Sniper Drone team is on the Tidwall Gunport, can a drone fire the Railgun?

 McNinja wrote:
Question - If a Sniper Drone team is on the Tidwall Gunport, can a drone fire the Railgun?

Yes, I think so. It's a proper Tau Empire Faction model with a BS value higher than 0 (Kroot Hounds couldn't fire it)

Why, though? Why not make the Spotter fire it since a ML in that squad isnt that amazing anyway and he doesnt have TL. Not like his Pulse Pistol is going to do anything lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Why, though? Why not make the Spotter fire it since a ML in that squad isnt that amazing anyway and he doesnt have TL. Not like his Pulse Pistol is going to do anything lol.

Because the sniper drone also has bs5 thanks to drone controller and that way the three marksmen can fire their three marker lights and a drone can fire the rail gun.

Ive had great success running a Mark'O with 2 misslepods, 2 marker drones, DC, and TL. Drop him in a squad of 8 drones(or whatever, season to taste) 4 Markers and 4 guns(ablative wounds mostly but has other uses). Other than the time I rolled 6 1's my mark'O squad has always meant reliable markers

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
Ive had great success running a Mark'O with 2 misslepods, 2 marker drones, DC, and TL. Drop him in a squad of 8 drones(or whatever, season to taste) 4 Markers and 4 guns(ablative wounds mostly but has other uses). Other than the time I rolled 6 1's my mark'O squad has always meant reliable markers

Used that a lot until the new codex hit (but only 6 drones max). Within Hunter Contingent, Mark'O is a very subpar choice.

Also not mentioned: Remoras. They one of two skyfiring ML sources we have. Meh on their own, but excellent for starting a cascade.

Remora school gets a couple ML hits on something flying, lets say 2. Use those to boost some Pathfinders, who, by the way, can move now, because who cares if they snapfire? Get more ML hits, use those to shoot flying thing with whatever you want, like 3x Railheads.

No exactly points efficient, but when you need to kill something specific that flies, it helps.

In addition, Remora are have guns and seeker missiles (that they can fire themselves), are stealth fliers, and are criminally undersized.

Downsides? Have to take a CAD. Hopefully the next FW book will have a formation of a Barracuda backed up by Remoras.

Remoras are heavily underestimated. Theyre usually regarded as "decent" but in truth theyre pretty darn good.

They, alongside Barracudas, are the two main FW units ive wanted for awhile. Costs deter me though, since i need the book too.

Also theyre our third skyfire ML source. Codex flier has a markerlight, but i'd rather field a CAD to get a handful of Remoras than take any of those atrocities in my formation. If they were ~100pts i'd take them, but more expensive, squishier, and unreliable than a Hammerhead? No fethin way lol. And of course Skyrays have VTs.