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I've been watching and reading bat reps looking for verifiable good tactics for astra militarum armies, but have really been struggling to find anything useful, practically all the bat reps i've watched for AM armies have lost, and the few victories I've seen have been largely due to complete luck ( single tank shots taking out entire key enemy units, etc...) or due to allied armies, being more effective

i do not want to rely on allies, although i dont mind having a small number of allies, but I dont consider a good tactic to use half another army

I am aware that the current meta is fairly harsh on astra militarum, and that we are due for a new codex with rules / points / formation updates which may (hopefully) help

however in the meantime, can anyone point me to some batreps / vids of solid astra militarum tactics? I'm not so much looking for just typed suggestions as I am bat reps or vids so that i can watch the fights unfold and see how things play out in different situations to actually see what's effective and when, not just theory

Ok, things that do work.

- Large blob of guards with power axe and melta bomb sarges supported with an inquisitor, priest, psy support sometimes and VSG.
- Conscripts with priests or comissars. Best tarpit ever. Unless you get the priest sniped out.
- Artillery formation. s9 ap2 ignore cover, re-rolling scatters.
- Psycher formation. Best daemon factory in the game. Works extremely well with VSG also.
- Decurion comsquad special weapons + allied pods spam. Ignore cover/tl special weapons. Suicide comsquads. They are strong in taking out whatever needed. Very unfluffy, however. And requires allied pods.

This is struff that is strong. Other things that are handy and pretty potent:
- Different better LR variants like eradicator. Basically, all tanks other than LRBT are fine. Demolisher and exterminator are too overcosted for my taste though.
- Sentinels are nice. Invaluable tarpits and scouts. New formation makes them even better.
- Min ratlings. Early game midfield pointholders. Something that guard is awful at. They help a bit.
- Min scions deepstriking special weapons. While not very reliable and quite costly, they're quite helpful in some lists.

IG often loose due to 5-th edition style armies. You see, the game has changed a lot since than. Back in 5-th edition, ig was primarily a very static gunline army with a lot of vehicles. And eternal war missions favor static gunlines. But than 6-th came and made vehicles worse. And 7-th made static gunlines worse. So, old style armies end up being outdated like an ork walker list. And the codex seems to favor that old trench-oriented warfare where the enemy is supposed to come for you when the rulebook clearly favors constant mobility with no real need of engaging the opponent asap. That makes list-building a much tougher thing. But it can still be done if you take what works.

a well built blob squad is quite a force to be reckoned with. Nigh unkillable and very very good damage output.

I have said elsewhere that 40 Guardsman (4x Lascannons, 4 x Meltabombs, 4 x Power axes) + 3 Priests + 3 Level 2 Psykers is golden.

The Eradicator is very good.

One last point. The actual Strategy for Ig played this way should not be a gunline that stands back. if you go this way, you will want to project your power forward.

In my (purely) IG army i have two blobs. I push them forward hard, leaving the Lascannon in the back of the unit unmoving so that they can still fire every turn.

How you fill the army out from there is your call. But strategically the Imperial Guard stagnant gunline thing is a fairly iffy idea. It certainly isnt undoable but an aggressive force fits the Objective heavy way 7th Edition works and while walking isnt fast, IG have orders that can let you fire and run so there is even an answer to the speed thing if need be.

I actually play a Militarum Tempestus force that has IG allies and i included the Blob in that also. It's good.

The Eradicator is very good.

It's not the first time, I read that and the previous poster also wrote it.
But really, I do not get it.

OK, the Eradicator is dirt cheap, but then?
S6 AP4 won't kill any vehicule, it will even suffer to glance those that can jink.

It won't neither kill all the Eldar Motojet, White Scars, Ravenwing out there, who can rely on their svg3+.

So, yes it will kill easily pathfinder or Space Marine Scout hidden behind wall, but that's it.

140 pts give you 9 hb shots and s6 ap4 ignore cover large blast. There's a number of competitive units that have cover or invuls on par or even better that their armor. And against those units, a s6 ap4 ignore cover blast is not much worse or even better than s10 ap2 blast but than you have hb to back you up.
This tank can force saves quite effectively, is relatively well priced for what you get and has it's niche. What's not to like?

Another popular idea is a Dark Angel detachment with Azrael and the blob of conscripts. 50 conscripts with a 4+ invun save anyone?

what is VSG kooo?


otherwise looks like solid ideas on paper / in theory

does anyone have a battle rep where such strategies are used effectively tho... these were all things I was looking for in use in a battle rep so i could see them in use in a real game, but so far I cant find crud for astra militarum battle reps that are worth a crap

You do have a fair point about there not being so many battle reports online for Astra Militarum doing extremely well.

There is one battle report on youtube channel tabletoptactics that comes to mind where the Astra Militarum wiped the floor with a Space Wolves force.

Okay, the Astra Militarum army did have a Reaver Titan, but still...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OtOSRnPFvw&index=8&list=PLw8pVOyn9GVZ20d4OViD54o-i2377BgGq

I think most successful AM armies I know rely on A: Blobs (although they need allies to be really good for Hit and Run, armour, psychic support goodies) and B: Pask in a Punisher as Warlord and C: Wyverns and indeed allies.

Pure AM is quite difficult because you can't really implement creative movement skills to mitigate inferior material since it is a rather static approach. Most players forget to push towards the objectives and get cornered and torn to pieces. So you need ideas to get up the field and win there. You can either boost a blob and then move it up and jam everything there or you have allied pods or something similar.

Makarios wrote:
what is VSG kooo?

Void Shield Generator. It protects squads within 12" with av12.

 -Nazdreg- wrote:
I think most successful AM armies I know rely on A: Blobs (although they need allies to be really good for Hit and Run, armour, psychic support goodies) and B: Pask in a Punisher as Warlord and C: Wyverns and indeed allies.

Pure AM is quite difficult because you can't really implement creative movement skills to mitigate inferior material since it is a rather static approach. Most players forget to push towards the objectives and get cornered and torn to pieces. So you need ideas to get up the field and win there. You can either boost a blob and then move it up and jam everything there or you have allied pods or something similar.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head with the biggest weakness of pure Astra Militarum compared to other armies. It is too static and slow overall. With the exception of their flyers and Hellhound variants, there isn't really much in the codex than can move around the table quickly. Pretty much all the other armies can outmaneuver them in some way.

I still mourn the loss of the penal legions and scouting/infiltrating/outflanking stormtroopers (and Harker for that matter). Since I prefer a Tallarn approach to AM the current style is very dissatisfying for me. I don't like the giant blobs and the "sit-hammer" gameplay and look for small mobile elements constantly on the move for opportunities instead. I would love a Tallarn formation with scout or infiltrate special rules.

I've recently been using Centaur Carriers with DKK Engineer squads as fast objective grabbers. There are definite setbacks in their very flimsy durability, but if you take 3 or 4 of them it remains relatively cheap and you will have enough points left over for a big, scary blob and big, scary guns.

HarryMason wrote:

The Eradicator is very good.

It's not the first time, I read that and the previous poster also wrote it.
But really, I do not get it.

OK, the Eradicator is dirt cheap, but then?
S6 AP4 won't kill any vehicule, it will even suffer to glance those that can jink.

It won't neither kill all the Eldar Motojet, White Scars, Ravenwing out there, who can rely on their svg3+.

So, yes it will kill easily pathfinder or Space Marine Scout hidden behind wall, but that's it.

You shouldn't dismiss tings with the word "just". the galaxy is actually filled with times you wish you had it.

For example, Eldar Seer Council can get 2+ cover saves and so can Tau Optimized Stealth Cadres. Dropping that down to a normal 3+ is significant. Even a battle cannon doesnt daunt those kinds of saves.

The Tau Empires Obsec units, the ones who can take points from you, are all susceptible t it.

Dark Angels can be INCREDIBLY difficult to kill with their new formation in the first round in which they move. Such a tank equalizes that again.

The laundry list of things it will equalize is actually pretty long.

Personally, looking at it from the outside, I think I'd prefer the Executionner over the Eradicator. The Wyvern is already pretty effective as an infantry killer.

I've had success with a blob style with allies and forgeworld (Rapier batteries and Earthshakers, which I can make ignore cover)

Using my firepower to strip enemy mobile elements I can then compete in the objective game.

I much prefer the Earthshaker with Fire on my Target to the Eradicator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the Earthshakers, I attach an Ordo Xenos inquisitor with Conversion Beamer. This grants LD10 for orders, and I can fire the Beamer at a target then switch to Barrage for the Earthshaker for a S9 AP3 Ifnore Cover pie plate that almost never misses.

Wow never considered the CBeamer in that configuration. Would the Barrage be able to scatter off of that blast template?

If you're willing to sacrifice some points and not get as much firepower, platoon infantry squads in a Taurox for 100 points a pop for mobile MSU. If you can (attempt) to overwhelm enemy front lines with mech vets, warlord Pask with camo/bullgryns, hellhound variants, power blobs, or whatever else floats your goat, the enemy will likely aim for whatever is being shoved into his/her face, while the infantry sit back, plinking away with the tl ac whilst ip sitting on objectives. This is just my take, I have yet to test it against more than one or two armies.

You have three options
1) an infantry Cadian battle group with attached psyker group summoning lots of demons
2) a armoured company chimera autocannon spam such as moretanks list
3) maybe a Cadian battle company tank lost with artillery spam

Greetings, allow me to offer some personal insight to the conversation.

Firstly, Guard Blob Squads. They are decent at tarpitting and 'blocking' areas from fast, hard hitting units. However without some serious support in the form of an allied Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, or a Primaris Psyker, with either a Priest or Commissar (Preferably both) this squad will be picked up quickly and with little to no damage done. It's expensive (Costing at minimum 350+ points with the squad and all attached character models + upgrades) and in a competitive environment will *Never* do anything but die quickly and ignobly. Even if you get lucky and get a good Psyker power roll and manage to cast for a 4+ Invulnerable save, they still drop like flies to massed high strength fire and blasts.
This squad's two redeeming qualities are that if someone is dumb enough to charge it, it will last a good long while thanks to Priest Hymns (When they are successfully rolled) and sheer number of bodies offers some resiliency in melee, and some board control/area denial for objectives. Their downsides do not make up for this however, as the squad crumples versus any massed shooting. You'll basically never make your points back with them at a highly competitive level or event.

The troops unit I tend to have the most success with are Veteran guardsmen in a Chimera (Or Taurox, though I feel the Chimera is superior). A full squad with a few special weapons (I run a pair of melta guns and a Grenade Launcher/Flamer as the third weapon), Krak Grenades, and a Chimera will often run you well under 200 points. The squad above would be 160 points. That's 10 BS:4 guardsmen with two melta shots, one grenade (Or Flamer Template) shot, and one Krak Grenade thrown out to 8" if in range, Plus the Chimera's weapons. With paired Plasma Guns it's 170 points, and if you want to spring for Carapace Armor, or Meltabombs on the squad along with a single Demolition Charge, the squad still stays at or just under 200 points.

The Chimera makes them fairly mobile compared to Blob Squads, keeps them alive long enough to generally shoot something important most days, and for the cost of a "Good" Blob Squad and all attached Characters (Primaris Psyker and/or Inquisitor, Commissar and Priest, generally 325 to 350 points minium) you can get at least two squads and their Chimera transports, I generally opt to go that route.

Eradicator Leman Russes are excellent choices, as are Executioners, Exterminators, and Punishers. I also enjoy Vanquishers as well but they are not the most competitive option.

Just offering my thoughts on that. Take it easy & I hope it helps.

-Red__Thirst-

I still feel like a blob is a little more resilient. A vet squad with all those upgrades runs close to 200 points for only 10 guys. For the same price you can get 30 guys with lascannons or autocannons. I guess I just prefer quantity over quality.

TwiG wrote:
I still feel like a blob is a little more resilient. A vet squad with all those upgrades runs close to 200 points for only 10 guys. For the same price you can get 30 guys with lascannons or autocannons. I guess I just prefer quantity over quality.

It's not 10 guys vs. 30 guys, it's 10 guys with 3x special weapons and a AV:12 front vehicle with 2x heavy weapons on it vs. 30 guys. Also bear in mind that, with upgrades, you can get two Veteran squads, one of which is in a Transport, for the cost of 3 Infantry Platoons.

Here's the math.

Vet Squad w/ 2x Plasma, a Grenade Launcher or Flamer, and Krak Grenades inside of a basic Chimera = 170 points

That gets you 4 plasma shots, a Grenade Launcher or Flamer Template shot, and a Krak Grenade toss and supporting lasguns at BS:4, plus at least one Heavy Bolter/Multilaser turret, with a second Heavy Bolter snap firing at minimum if the tank moves at BS:3.

Infantry Platoon with a bare bones PCS and three Infantry Squads with let's say Lascannons in each, plus Krak Grenades across the board once again = 275 points.

That's 3 Lascannon shots, plus 3 Krak Grenade tosses, and a whole lot of Lasgun fire from the blob, plus one additional Krak grenade toss from the PCS, all at BS:3.

They both serve a purpose, but the Veterans and Chimera are easier to 'hide' and have a much smaller footprint on the table in addition to being harder to kill with their Chimera shaped hard candy shell and able to inflict more damage when they fire, all-be-it at a much shorter distance, all while being more than 100 points cheaper. You can Put an entire second Veteran Squad with Carapace Armor or Camo Cloaks & Snare Mines upgrades, Some Special Weapons and a Heavy Weapon upgrade on the table for less than 105 points (No transport obviously). A vet Squad with a trio of Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, and a Lascannon is just 96 points and in a 4+ cover save ruin will be fairly hard to shift without Ignores Cover, especially if they go to ground. So the reality is, at least points wise, 35 Guardsmen versus 20 Veteran Guardsmen with an attached tank, looking at it purely by what you can get for the points spent.

Just my opinion on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

the_scotsman wrote:
(Rapier batteries and Earthshakers, which I can make ignore cover)
I much prefer the Earthshaker with Fire on my Target to the Eradicator.
For the Earthshakers, I attach an Ordo Xenos inquisitor with Conversion Beamer. This grants LD10 for orders, and I can fire the Beamer at a target then switch to Barrage for the Earthshaker for a S9 AP3 Ifnore Cover pie plate that almost never misses.

Ok...here are a few mistakes that you've made.
1. Only the models from Codex AM count for LD for orders. Means that a squad with a ld10 inquisitor still tests on ld7-8 in case of orders.
2. Only units from Codex AM can recieve orders. Means that earthshakers can't recieve orders.

Well, you can homerule the stuff so that it's all fine but you must first ask your opponent before doing so.

Those are some really tighta** folks you play with Koooaei. Nobody I've met and no reasonable tournament pack would enforce that interpretation. If they do, you can pay the 170 point tax and take the artillery formation and get similar benefits. The manticore is pretty good at stripping hullpoints, so it's not a total waste.

I've had luck running blobs in 2 ways:
1) Psychic support from a conclave + 50 dudes and power axes. Expensive, but it holds territory like nobody's business. 4+ invuln, FNP, and invisibility are super solid when you have 45 dudes who literally do not matter at all to get through. In objectives missions where you can play the "come at me bro" game, it's really solid. If you have to chase people down, it can struggle, but 6"+fleet run can get you where you need to be eventually.

2) Spacewolf bunker. A couple of ironpriests and Wolfguard battle leaders with 2+ saves (add in a sanguinary priest for extra lols) and thunder hammers makes for a really nasty look out sir shield for the blob. It's even better if you can find some way of rerolling those saves (I've not found one yet) but with so many choices and freedom to allocate wounds, it's a miserable thing to try and wade through. You also get a cavalry move with obsec granted by the blob. As long as you keep coherency, your reach is pretty good.

For support, it's up in the air. The thing guard struggle with is fast independent mobility. I really want russes to fill this gap, but with their weakness to assault, it's just not possible. Solutions include things like the gorgon transport, the stormlord, and the CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, sentinels, or allying in bikes. Damn shame because "white scars bikes" is the answer to just about everything. You can also pull Isodon shenanigans and infiltrate the uberblob up the table. If you can swing it, kreig death riders can get obsec and are awesome for their cost. You can also stick platoon command squads in inquisitorial razorbacks, sisters repressors, or fliers, but they have a hard time holding ground. I suppose they could hold till the blob gets there though. Or you can Draigo for gateway/psykanna division in daemons for lols.

The best way to run a competitive AM army is spamming Chimera Veterans. The Chimera might have taken a nerf since last edition, but zooming them up the field will actually do okay against Space Marines, Tau, and Necrons. Eldar will laugh at your face though. THEN trying to build against Eldar will make you lose to those three armies. It is a pretty vicious circle. Wyverns are your best bet against Eldar Scatterbikes I'd have to guess.

I've played a game with Orka militarum not long ago.


They did pretty good against clan raukaan marines with an imperial knight. Actually, it was even all game long but i managed to pull a win cause of first blood. And we played itc mission 2 - some sort of simplified maelstorm but with 2 out 6 are "kill something". I don't like ITC missions - regular maelstorm is much more interesting imo. And it favors variety unlike more eternal war-ish ITC ones. Hate killpoints like all orks do. But let's reserve it for another thread.

Things that performed great:
- Artillery formation. That was expected and they did great. The best piece of this formation was...master of ordnance. He hit everything i needed each turn. Extraordinary luck. Pulled way above his weight like...15-20 times. The bad thing is that Yarrikk can't become a warlord with a comsquad.
- Conscripts with a priest and an inquisitor to scout forward. This guyz were amazing. They tanked the biker comsquad with a techmarine and eventually finished them off with some help from rough riders. And they blocked off the knight for a turn - which was vital.
- Rough riders. It's actually not a surprise for me. Rough riders are usually performing fine. This time they charged in and killed 2 comsquad bikers. Don't forget, those are the dudes with 4+++ fnp. One of the casualties was an apothecary, so rough riders instantly payed off.

Things that did fine:
- VSG absorbed some fire early on.
- Scout sentinels outflanked and scored a few points but i wasn't lucky with reserves.

Things that underperformed:
- Yarikk and a kitted melee blob. Now, it usually does good with psy support and Yarikk is an awesome HQ. But this game they happened to be locked in their deployment zone and eventually stomped by a knight. I actually wished i'd bring more mobility. Well, they tarpitted a knight for a few turns, so, not all so grim.
- Chimera vets. All they managed to do this game was a glance on a landspeeder with melta, finishing it off with a heavy bolter. I wish they had meltabomb upgrade for this game. They're still a passable troop choice.

I can't believe more people aren't talking about wyverns! I'd argue they're the best unit in the codex by a long way.

They make a mess of so many targets - points efficient against any infantry from gretchin to centurions and can even glance to death light vehicles (particularly if they park close to each other!)

Barrage sniping is awesome to kill heavy weapons (or avoid a buffing character e.g. in a centstar). Ignores cover is getting more and more important all the time. They're just dead good!

My favourite AM allies (my core army is blobs, conscripts and wyverns):

1) Inquisition - to overwhelm the enemy with more cheap bodies with 5pt bolter henchmen and provide psychic support via cheap psykers. Also the inquisitors themselves can provide LD 10 for orders and servo skulls. Coteaz is just awesome value for points too.

2) Ravenwing - Guard lack grav and fast moving units. Ravenwing do both with ease. The ravenwing 2nd turn arrival formation is great. Multi-meltas and grav just where you need them plus almost untouchable cover saves.

3) Skyhammer - again grav fire just where you need it and just when you need it. A cheap skyhammer formation is a great addition to a blob core.

My 2¢ that doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet on this thread is cover save trickery with tanks. I use a couple of strategies to make my tanks very hard to shoot down, and it's worked for me more often than not. Pretty straightforward: Bullgryns and Camo netting. Expensive, perhaps, but typically makes opponents sink a lot of extra firepower just to try scratching AV14 or 13, and supplements anti-assault bubble wrap that tanks love. I'll take 3+ cover on tanks in open terrain any day, even 2+ if terrain rules with your opponent are favorable. There are some tricks to make sure you target units don't get the reciprocated cover bonus: Ignores cover or Barrage weapons, just let them have armor saves like with Pasknisher, or just move the bullgryns out of the way of your turret weapons for a moment, then run them back in front of your tanks after they fire (orders help here). Like any strategy, YMMV, but for me, this typically allows me to draw fire away from my supporty/ObSec units as a dangerous unit proceeds to the center of the board and blasts anything within 24", drawing heavy fire, yet minimizing damage.

I would agree with the usefulness of the Wyvern. It's a very odd, more subtle beast than your average Leman Russ Demolisher in the way of forcing enemies to roll a ton of saves, rather than bypassing a decent number. Then again, this makes me think that the Wyvern's distinct shortcomings fall when you have multi-save models, be it FNP or Necron Decurion RP. Otherwise, yes, you can target those terminators! Almost anything you target save Boyz and Gaunts get to roll saving dice (though they die in droves to wyverns), but so many dice that there should definitely be some failed saves. However, that's why I wouldn't necessarily field them against Necrons unless I can find something to hit without RP (not likely).

Did I mention Demolishers? Ah, yes. IMO, the Demos make great partners for Pasknisher in a tank commander squadron, even over an executioner. The primary reasons for such are 1) I simply prefer big pie plates since you'll more than likely hit the original target, especially if twin-linked by a Primaris, 2) Instant Death on T4 and 5 models, 3) Hits vehicles harder with S10 and Ordnance, and 4) Actually costs 15 points less than an exec with plasma sponsons. Because Executioners get plasma sponsons. And you do not give Demolishers sponsons.

I also agree that mech vets and Vendettas remain crucial for competitive lists. Mobile ObSec and strong anti-armor/anti-air are almost as good as they were last codex. Definitely some small chimera nerfs and an admittedly much needed price hike to the fliers, but I never leave home without one Vendetta and some mobile vet squads.

Sadly I must disagree concerning Mechvets. They are in fact quite overpriced at the moment especially compared to SM troops with Pods (with or without GSF). Drop Pod is cheaper and better at the scoring game and 5 SM are cheaper and overall better as well. So it is always easier to use allies for that job.

Personally I actually have issues filling the second troops choice effectively. I don't need more than one platoon and I don't want to invest so many points in vets so it is a lose/lose situation. If I turn it around and use AM as allies, Pask does not get his warlord trait and becomes far less useful.

Maybe the Cadia Formations are quite viable as well.

 -Nazdreg- wrote:
Sadly I must disagree concerning Mechvets. They are in fact quite overpriced at the moment especially compared to SM troops with Pods (with or without GSF). Drop Pod is cheaper and better at the scoring game and 5 SM are cheaper and overall better as well. So it is always easier to use allies for that job.

Personally I actually have issues filling the second troops choice effectively. I don't need more than one platoon and I don't want to invest so many points in vets so it is a lose/lose situation. If I turn it around and use AM as allies, Pask does not get his warlord trait and becomes far less useful.

Maybe the Cadia Formations are quite viable as well.

Wait, what? You think ten BS:4 guardsmen (no upgrades, of course) with a Chimera transport for 125 points is overcosted? A Space Marine tactical squad (5 models, no upgrades) with a Drop Pod costs 95 points. That gives you at most five (or ten within 12") bolter shots and two additional storm bolter shots, so seven to twelve shots. Conversely, the Guard Veterans in their Chimera give you at least a Multilaser turret shot, with either a Heavy Bolter or heavy flamer from the hull weapon mount, and if the squad piles out of the transport, nine (or nineteen within 12") lasgun/laspistol shots. In my opinion, the Guard squad isn't super overcosted for what you get. At least not comparatively. If anything, it's the Chimera transport that needs to be ten to fifteen points cheaper, and the basic Taurox should run about 35 to 40 points base cost for the vehicle.

Any non-fast vehicle with no armor value higher than 12 (Or, conversely, having two or more armor values of 10) shouldn't cost more than 50 points base. Period. At least that's my opinion.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-