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Just recently, I saw someone post on one of the threads about the other armies besides SM that you can play. And they had mentioned that the Shattered Legions and the Black Shields are coming as well.

Can someone please explain to me what these two groups are, or if they are even real? I haven't been keeping up with the HH stories lately, so I'm pretty far behind right now (my knowledge extends out to A Thousand Sons and the first 4 FW HH books).


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Okay, so I think I'm an idiot. Just looked up the Shattered Legions. Completely forgot that's what the 3 destroyed legions on Isstvan V were called..... My bad.

And the black shields are, supposedly, loyalist ex-members of traitor legions.

The black shields were loyalists who left their parent legions (usually because the parent legions were traitors), obscured all of the heraldry on their armour and became the precursors of the inquisition.

These are the same Black Shields that would go on to join the Deathwatch?

Black Shields are not the deathwatch. At the open days they talked about them disavowing their legions, turncoat marines (mad, revenge, experiments, space pirates) neither good or bad alien weapons and mutations- genetically changed

Also, the unit shown was called Chymeriae...between 10-15 marines in a squad.

 foto69man wrote:
Black Shields are not the deathwatch. At the open days they talked about them disavowing their legions, turncoat marines (mad, revenge, experiments, space pirates) neither good or bad alien weapons and mutations- genetically changed

I think it's largely because the Deathwatch don't come into existence until something like the 33rd or 34th millennium... I think it's apparent that there is some connection even if minor. The Deathwatch fluff say it's rooted in heresy era formations and restartedl later on. By 40k I think it's simply a case that the Deathwatch becomes the repository for these same types of marines.

 foto69man wrote:
Black Shields are not the deathwatch. At the open days they talked about them disavowing their legions, turncoat marines (mad, revenge, experiments, space pirates) neither good or bad alien weapons and mutations- genetically changed

What I meant was that there are chapterless marines that join the Deathwatch called Black Shields http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Deathwatch_Black_Shield.

I think it's largely because the Deathwatch don't come into existence until something like the 33rd or 34th millennium... I think it's apparent that there is some connection even if minor.

Sooner than that, but not by much. The Artwork for the Beast Arises series (set 1,000 years after the heresy) does include images of a Deathwatch marine.

But yeah, Blackshield is a generic term - as much a slur as anything - for any marine who no longer has a legion/chapter, either because he's been kicked out, he's turned against his legion, or he no longer has a legion to be part of.

Blackshields in the heresy could just as easily be traitor "loyalists" as loyalist "traitors"; the white scars had lodges, for example, and it's not unrealistic that an isolated detachment might have fought for Horus en masse.

Blackshields have nothing to do with the deathwatch. Deathwatch still have their legion icons and are a sort of all-star team to defeat a specific foe.

BlackSheilds are pirates, former legionaries that split off from their legions. they have painted their armor how they want. they don't use any specific legion tactics.

one example is that after Ferrus Manus was killed, dozens of Iron Hands legionaires went nuts and left the legion, they were lost and had no care in the world for anything.

they aren't chaos traitor, but they are no longer loyal to the emperor either. theyre on their own.

its a way to have people play SMs and paint them how they want.

you nailed the head on shattered legions. but I think its going to be more than just that. probably will be used to create forces that united on istvann 3 and also the pockets of resistance of loyalist forces that banded together in Istvann 5 after the massacre. but from what I hear, it will allow you to create your own legion warbands. allowing you to join UMs, White scars and Iron Warriors as an army if you wish.

In the Deathwatch fiction and RPG there are blackshields, so there maybe some connection even if indirect. Consistent to both the Deathwatch and 30k depiction they are former renegades that "do what they want" and even though they are in the Deathwatch they've removed their chapter/legion colors completely. In Deathwatch there is a sense of penatance about them, that is to say even though they are called "Blackshields" it maybe more appropriate to think of the Deathwatch ones as marines formerly known as Blackshields that are haunted by their personal or chapter's or legions shame.

The Blackshields aren't related to the Deathwatch, but the Deathwatch clearly admit that type of marine into their ranks.

Deathwatch Blackshields are so named because they black out their chapter/legion affiliation with the same Deathwatch black as the rest of their armour.

My pet theory is that it used to be the other way round: The original Deathwatch (or its precursor) was a Blackshield company in Inquisitorial service, when the number of exiles/renegades inevitably begins to dwindle the Inquisition arranges for the numbers to be supplemented with temporary secondments from existing chapters who adopt the overall black panoply of the Blackshield but retain their chapter affiliaton, eventually the number of true Blackshields drops to almost nil and the true origin of the formation and it's black livery are all but forgotten.

We'll find out fairly soon - within a couple of months - as , as noted, the Beast Arises series includes the Deathwatch at what must be their first historical appearance.

The Black Shields will be an interesting army list. With no loyalty and no support from either side, it'll probably be a small, elite list. After all, what kind of Space Marine could not only walk away from his Primarch and his Legion, but turn his back on the Emperor?

I'm a bit more interested in the Shattered Legions- like the Sons of Horus that went back to the Luna Wolves after the Isstvan III.

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Black Shields will be an interesting army list. With no loyalty and no support from either side, it'll probably be a small, elite list. After all, what kind of Space Marine could not only walk away from his Primarch and his Legion, but turn his back on the Emperor?

I'm a bit more interested in the Shattered Legions- like the Sons of Horus that went back to the Luna Wolves after the Isstvan III.

I don't think they would need to use a shatterd legion list. they could just use the SoH rite of war and legion rules.

shattered legion would be the list you use if you want to make an Istvann III list of loyalist Sons of Horus, Emperors Children, World Eaters and Death Guard, commanded by a Praetor you can call Saul Tarvitz or Garviel Loken. I know they have official entries but I'm saying that as an example.

I plan on doing a shattered legion of Ultramarines, White Scars and Salamanders, no historical reference but play them as a small unit that found each other and banded together. but we'll see what the Rites of War are in book 6 and that will ultimately determine my next Army

I think the BS are one of the most interesting asides we have seen in the heresy to date. They are marines completely broken by the betrayal and so become completely disillusioned with either side and have decided to go it alone. Gaming aside I hope we get some pretty cool stories on them, space pirate style!

At least they're easy to paint! I have years of practice with Black Templars!

The rules are out!!! And they are....................GLORIOUS!

They are loyalist, traitor, and neither. Chimeric geneseed and void pirates.

All I can say to FW on this one is...well done.


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https://www.facebook.com/groups/1032332593513849/

There's a FB group too, just started.

Can someone please post an image of tje rules???!

I won't post 10 pages of rules here... But the FB group has them

There's a broad round-up in the rumour threads, too.
They look....interesting.

You lose out on quite a few things - mostly drop pods and the ability to go infantry-heavy, but you get very a very flexible legion special rule.

The lack of Rites of War is important, too - no way to get Terminators/veteran tacticals as troops.

locarno24 wrote:
There's a broad round-up in the rumour threads, too.
They look....interesting.

You lose out on quite a few things - mostly drop pods and the ability to go infantry-heavy, but you get very a very flexible legion special rule.

The lack of Rites of War is important, too - no way to get Terminators/veteran tacticals as troops.

oh no, less pride of the legion lists, what ever will we do!

sarcasm aside: good. I'm sick and tired of seeing PotL lists that are just blatantly 40k lists without the master of relics. at least shattered legions forces you to play something new. It sucks that they loose legion specific ones and some of the more fun generic ones (namely the new dreadnought one, that just looks fun )

 Brennonjw wrote:


It sucks that they loose legion specific ones

If you are talking about the RoW, all you have to do is take your Warlord from the Legion who's RoW you want to use.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:


It sucks that they loose legion specific ones

If you are talking about the RoW, all you have to do is take your Warlord from the Legion who's RoW you want to use.

blackshields get no RoWs

Oh, I though we were on Shattered Legions.

Yeah Blackshields get no RoW and I like that, I think its rather fitting. They are the outcasts, the Dirty Dozen, the 47 Ronin. They do what they need to do to accomplish their purpose what ever that is, but aren't very organized.

On the other hand, the wrought by war rules are just as dramatic in tge changes they apply to the army....

Yeah they do change them alot, which is likely why no RoW.


Speaking of new forces, do we know what options the Build a Knight-Errant has?

Pretty much a legion centurion with better kit options.

He can have a servo arm (and Battlesmith), or a narthecium, or a....I want to say Nuncio-Vox, but might be Cognis-Signum.

He gets a paragon bolter (as per garro) and a master-crafted power sword, and a master-crafted (you'll see this phrase a lot) bolt pistol.

You can swap the sword for lightning claw or power fist (again master crafted), you can take melta bombs, and I think a jump pack, and can swap the bolt pistol for plasma pistol or volkite serpent (again master crafted).

Iron halo and artificer armour are standard.

One errant can be upgraded to a librarian consul following standard rules (which actually means he gets [shock!] a non-master-crafted weapon!).

Gets Preferred Enemy (Traitors), Oath Of Moment, Implacable Advance and Cloaked by Falsehood, all as per Garro.

Essentially, is a lot less capable than Garro, but is also cheaper if you don't go nuts. The Narthecium is a nice option for an independent character. You're mostly paying for Oath Of Moment, to be fair.

Also, there are two other 'named' Knights-Errant; Rubio and the Nemean Reaver (a blackshield pirate who's clearly ex dark angels - and probably whoever was supposed to be Epimethius before the telepath 'traded destinies' with him)

The latter is probably the most dangerous - fearless and eternal warrior, and unlike Libertas he has an AP2 weapon; meaning he's probably the best placed if you're considering the "Headsman" oath of moment.

Cool, thank you.

It makes for an interesting option for an army and the potential for many dirty tricks.

A Knight-Errant is - let's be fair - a bit second-rate in a fight. I mean, he's incredibly well equipped, with master-crafted and artificer everything built into his base cost, Preferred Enemy (Traitors) and some serious shenanigans.

But at the same time, he's the wrong side of 100 points for a WS/BS5 sergeant with an extra wound.

What you're paying for - more than anything else - is Oath Of Moment and the tactics and mind games that allows.



Imagine, for example, that your warlord is a Consul Delegatus, using the Chosen Duty rite of war.

He is normally worth 2 victory points to the enemy if killed, and one to you if he survives. Significant, but not game-changing, especially in Maelstrom games like the ones run at the Warhammer World HH events.


Now imagine that your two non-compulsory HQ choices are both Knights-Errant. For the sake of argument, Garro and the Nemean Reaver.


Suddenly.....that Delegatus has a massive crosshairs on his head. You don't KNOW I've taken Protector as their oaths of moment, but I might have - and if I have, then whether or not the Delegatus survives will result in a 7 point shift in the score (1 from Slay The Warlord + 1 either way from Chosen Duty + 2 x 2 from Protector).

You can't afford to ignore that, but that means chasing down a character who I can set up inside a fortification surrounded by aegis lines, quad-guns, veteran tactical squads in cover and god-knows-what-else.

But.....whilst you have to go after him, he might well just be a massive trap. Whilst a classic paragon blade-wielding praetor should slap the crud out of a centurion in short order, the Nemean stood next to him can probably slap you down in turn....and he might well have taken Headsman, meaning losing your Warlord on the pointy bit of the Calibanite Flammbard might give me 4 victory points.

And Garro just appeared in your backfield via By Falsehood Cloaked and started shooting up a thud gun's crew. if I have taken Protector on the Delegatus, he's just a distraction - it doesn't matter if he survives - but if I've taken Hand Of The Sigilite instead he could get 3 victory points from an objective (plus any points for the objective itself) and you've only got a couple of turns to hunt him down and kill him..... and the Nemean might have taken Protector and selected Garro, not the Delegatus.

 foto69man wrote:
I won't post 10 pages of rules here... But the FB group has them

Would you mind Pm'ing me the rules? or the link to it?