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Do I have to declare the targets for my SH or GC individual weapons before I fire them? Or can I declare what weapon im using declare target then fire it...then move on to the next and so on and so on?

By RAW nothing in the super heavy rules change the shooting sequence rules so you have to declare all your targets before firing.

 CrownAxe wrote:
By RAW nothing in the super heavy rules change the shooting sequence rules so you have to declare all your targets before firing.

By RAW nothing in the Super-Heavy rules change the Shooting Sequence so nothing is defined in how it shoots multiple targets, including not requiring all targets declared before selecting Weapons.

Now, all targets should be declared before choosing Weapons, but that is to avoid cheating your opponent and yourself.

So this would mean a SH couldn't destroy a transport, and then shoot the unit inside with a second weapon, I assume?

 God In Action wrote:
So this would mean a SH couldn't destroy a transport, and then shoot the unit inside with a second weapon, I assume?

That has been discussed recently.

There is nothing explicitly allowing or denying this.

 CrownAxe wrote:
By RAW nothing in the super heavy rules change the shooting sequence rules so you have to declare all your targets before firing.

By that logic the rules also say nothing on how to shoot more than 1 weapon

Charistoph wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
By RAW nothing in the super heavy rules change the shooting sequence rules so you have to declare all your targets before firing.

By RAW nothing in the Super-Heavy rules change the Shooting Sequence so nothing is defined in how it shoots multiple targets, including not requiring all targets declared before selecting Weapons.

Now, all targets should be declared before choosing Weapons, but that is to avoid cheating your opponent and yourself.

Yes, by RAW nothing changes the shooting sequence... Tje step before choose weapon is choose target.

So after you have chosen the superheavy vehicle/gargantuan Creature/target-lock model's unit/split-fire recipient's unit/et al as the firing unit, you must declare the Target of this unit's shooting before you select any weapons to be fired by the unit.

If(as in the case of shv or gc, and then also the other 2 really) it was as you say than each weapon chosen would all select the same different target(do you believe the heavy bolter sponsons on a baneblade and the turret ones must all target the same unit as an "individual weapon"?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
By RAW nothing in the super heavy rules change the shooting sequence rules so you have to declare all your targets before firing.

By RAW nothing in the Super-Heavy rules change the Shooting Sequence so nothing is defined in how it shoots multiple targets, including not requiring all targets declared before selecting Weapons.

Now, all targets should be declared before choosing Weapons, but that is to avoid cheating your opponent and yourself.

Yes, by RAW nothing changes the shooting sequence... Tje step before choose weapon is choose target.

So after you have chosen the superheavy vehicle/gargantuan Creature/target-lock model's unit/split-fire recipient's unit/et al as the firing unit, you must declare the Target of this unit's shooting before you select any weapons to be fired by the unit.

If(as in the case of shv or gc, and then also the other 2 really) it was as you say than each weapon chosen would all select the same different target(do you believe the heavy bolter sponsons on a baneblade and the turret ones must all target the same unit as an "individual weapon"?

Specifically, Step 2 is chose A target, not just "choose target". It would be better if it was just "chose target". It makes no allowances for the selection of more than one target at this point and the Super-Heavy rules do not address on how it changes.

Wait so what is the concensus?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait so what is the concensus?

That you have permission to shoot at different targets with each weapon, but are not told how the Shooting Sequence should be modified to do so.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait so what is the concensus?

That you have permission to shoot at different targets with each weapon, but are not told how the Shooting Sequence should be modified to do so.

So basically, the consensus is *shrug*? Lol. GW y you do dis.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
By RAW nothing in the super heavy rules change the shooting sequence rules so you have to declare all your targets before firing.

By that logic the rules also say nothing on how to shoot more than 1 weapon

No, the rules explain very clearly how to shoot more then one weapon.

What they don't say is how to shoot more than one target. The only RAW example of this is Split Fire.

Charistoph wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
By RAW nothing in the super heavy rules change the shooting sequence rules so you have to declare all your targets before firing.

By RAW nothing in the Super-Heavy rules change the Shooting Sequence so nothing is defined in how it shoots multiple targets, including not requiring all targets declared before selecting Weapons.

Now, all targets should be declared before choosing Weapons, but that is to avoid cheating your opponent and yourself.

Yes, by RAW nothing changes the shooting sequence... Tje step before choose weapon is choose target.

So after you have chosen the superheavy vehicle/gargantuan Creature/target-lock model's unit/split-fire recipient's unit/et al as the firing unit, you must declare the Target of this unit's shooting before you select any weapons to be fired by the unit.

If(as in the case of shv or gc, and then also the other 2 really) it was as you say than each weapon chosen would all select the same different target(do you believe the heavy bolter sponsons on a baneblade and the turret ones must all target the same unit as an "individual weapon"?

Specifically, Step 2 is chose A target, not just "choose target". It would be better if it was just "chose target". It makes no allowances for the selection of more than one target at this point and the Super-Heavy rules do not address on how it changes.

Yes, you have done a lovely job of showing how the basic rules of 1 unit tarheting 1 unit state that you target 1 unit.

But then you seem to think that the rules that specifically state you can target multiple units mean that you throw the rule being modified out of the window.

The rules have a process that includes selecting the target of your shooting, a special rule modifies how many targets you may select with your unit. That special rule clearly modifies the basic "a target" step in the process as it does not tell you any other method of shooting when those special rules are in effect.

Here's a little idea to support the idea that a SH can target an embarked unit, after the unit's transport has been destroyed.

Imagine your SH shoots enemy vehicle A with your weapon 1, behind which enemy unit B is in cover. Vehicle A explodes and is removed, revealing unit B in the clear. If you then shot unit B with your SH's weapon 2, you wouldn't grant unit B the benefit of cover from vehicle A which was just prior destroyed, right? After all, it has just been removed.

In other words, SH weapons are shot in a definite sequence and do not happen simultaneously.

BRB Pg.30 does tell us to select differently named weapons in sequence and not simultaneously. (So a SH's sponsons with same weapons would shoot simultaneously, but separately to its main turreted weapon).

There are two ways of handling this and neither has clear RAW support:

A - choose all of your targets and assign weapons to them in Step 2. You then work through your weapons in any order you want as per usual.

or

B - Skip step 2 and select a target each time you select a weapon in step 3.


A is how previous editions have handled it but the shooting sequence has changed quite a bit (different weapons shooting from a unit is no longer simultaneous).

B is more powerful in a few different ways but that doesn't make it wrong.

This argument has always baffled me.

Step 1: Select firing unit
Step 2: Select a target
Step 3: Choose a weapon
Step 4: Roll to hit
Step 5: Roll to Wound
Step 6: Roll Saves
Step 7: If more then one weapon, go back to step 3.

So we have a rule that says you can choose more then one Target for shooting.

Everyone seems to argue that it is OK to modify step 3 to include choosing a target for a new weapon, or modify step 7 to say go back to step 2 instead. But for some reason Step 2 is 100% sacred and can never be modified by anything. What? Why is this rule so sacred? Why is it impossible to modify step 2 when we are told we can select more then one target but OK to modify every other rule in the sequence which does not involve selecting a target?

The problem is that each superheavy weapon can select a target. At step 2, you don't know how many weapons you have. I could select your whole army as a target. How do I know how many targets to pick?

You could houserule it with a step 1.5 "Count the number of weapons your unit has if it is a superheavy" and then modify step 2 to say: "choose as many targets as you have weapons if you are a superheavy" but then you've joined us in houserule land.

 God In Action wrote:
Here's a little idea to support the idea that a SH can target an embarked unit, after the unit's transport has been destroyed.

Imagine your SH shoots enemy vehicle A with your weapon 1, behind which enemy unit B is in cover. Vehicle A explodes and is removed, revealing unit B in the clear. If you then shot unit B with your SH's weapon 2, you wouldn't grant unit B the benefit of cover from vehicle A which was just prior destroyed, right? After all, it has just been removed.

In other words, SH weapons are shot in a definite sequence and do not happen simultaneously.

BRB Pg.30 does tell us to select differently named weapons in sequence and not simultaneously. (So a SH's sponsons with same weapons would shoot simultaneously, but separately to its main turreted weapon).

Unit B being in los(elligible target) but behind cover of unit A and unit A being destroyed is not the same situation as unit B being inside Unit A(making unit B an ineligible target)

The exact same thing occurs with split fire and target lock(both of whom remind you that transport then contents is right out).

It is very simple you follow the shooting sequence and step 2 tells you to pick a target; the super heavy(et al) rules tell you that you can pick multiple targets instead.

If you do not think that the sequence matters anymore with these rules tham you must also think you can take a banehammer fire a lascannon from the sponson, fail to destroy the transport, then select the second sponson lascannon, fail to destroy the transport, select an entirely different unit that then destroys the transport, then go back to the banehammer to fire the main gun at the unit that was inside the transport. Is that what you are suggesting you can do? Because it breaks 3 rules.

Really? You have no idea how many weapons are on a vehicle until step 3? The rules prevent you from knowing the profile of the vehicle before this step?

Choosing a weapon at step 3 to then resolves steps 4,5,6 with does nothing to prevent you from choosing a target for a weapon at step 2.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The problem is that each superheavy weapon can select a target. At step 2, you don't know how many weapons you have. I could select your whole army as a target. How do I know how many targets to pick?

You could houserule it with a step 1.5 "Count the number of weapons your unit has if it is a superheavy" and then modify step 2 to say: "choose as many targets as you have weapons if you are a superheavy" but then you've joined us in houserule land.

WTF are you talking about? The Datasheet tells you how many weapons you have. You no exactly how many weapons you have and the rules already tell you that you can fire all of them. This whole post is utter nonsense.

Kommissar Kel wrote:[Yes, you have done a lovely job of showing how the basic rules of 1 unit tarheting 1 unit state that you target 1 unit.

But then you seem to think that the rules that specifically state you can target multiple units mean that you throw the rule being modified out of the window.

The rules have a process that includes selecting the target of your shooting, a special rule modifies how many targets you may select with your unit. That special rule clearly modifies the basic "a target" step in the process as it does not tell you any other method of shooting when those special rules are in effect.

Correct, it does not tell you any other method, but it also does not state you choose all targets at the same time. In other words:

Scott-S6 wrote:There are two ways of handling this and neither has clear RAW support:

A - choose all of your targets and assign weapons to them in Step 2. You then work through your weapons in any order you want as per usual.

or

B - Skip step 2 and select a target each time you select a weapon in step 3.


A is how previously editions have handled it but the shooting sequence has changed quite a bit (different weapons shooting from a unit is no long simultaneous).

B is more powerful in a few different ways but that doesn't make it wrong.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The problem is that each superheavy weapon can select a target. At step 2, you don't know how many weapons you have. I could select your whole army as a target. How do I know how many targets to pick?

You could houserule it with a step 1.5 "Count the number of weapons your unit has if it is a superheavy" and then modify step 2 to say: "choose as many targets as you have weapons if you are a superheavy" but then you've joined us in houserule land.

WTF are you talking about? The Datasheet tells you how many weapons you have. You no exactly how many weapons you have and the rules already tell you that you can fire all of them. This whole post is utter nonsense.

thats not the point.. Step 2 is merely "select target". Therefore I could select every single enemy unit as my targets as there is nothing stating how many to select, since weapon selection is after target selection. Thats why i makes more sense to finish the shooting sequence and repeat 3-7 again.

thats not the point.. Step 2 is merely "select target". Therefore I could select every single enemy unit as my targets as there is nothing stating how many to select, since weapon selection is after target selection. Thats why i makes more sense to finish the shooting sequence and repeat 3-7 again.

/sigh again, we have a reference to step 2 being sacred and unchangeable, WHY?

We have a rule that says we can choose different targets for each weapon. Why is changing step 2 to "select a target for each weapon" so impossible?

Choosing a weapon at step 3 only involves using it for the process of steps 4 through 6 and has zero effect on 2, so why can't we change step 2, why do we have to change step 3 or 7 when neither involve targeting?

Lusiphur wrote:

thats not the point.. Step 2 is merely "select target". Therefore I could select every single enemy unit as my targets as there is nothing stating how many to select, since weapon selection is after target selection. Thats why i makes more sense to finish the shooting sequence and repeat 3-7 again.

/sigh again, we have a reference to step 2 being sacred and unchangeable, WHY?

We have a rule that says we can choose different targets for each weapon. Why is changing step 2 to "select a target for each weapon" so impossible?

Choosing a weapon at step 3 only involves using it for the process of steps 4 through 6 and has zero effect on 2, so why can't we change step 2, why do we have to change step 3 or 7 when neither involve targeting?

You are missing the point, we are not told how anything changes. Which leads to:

Scott-S6 wrote:There are two ways of handling this and neither has clear RAW support:

A - choose all of your targets and assign weapons to them in Step 2. You then work through your weapons in any order you want as per usual.

or

B - Skip step 2 and select a target each time you select a weapon in step 3.


A is how previously editions have handled it but the shooting sequence has changed quite a bit (different weapons shooting from a unit is no long simultaneous).

B is more powerful in a few different ways but that doesn't make it wrong.

We are told how things change. Instead of choosing 1 target unit for thr shooting unit some models or weapons can choose other units.

You choose your target at a set point in the sequence, that target is generally 1 enemy unit but along comes a special rule that changes that "your selected unit targets a unit" into either "each weapon may target a separate unit" or "1(/this) model may target a different unit from the rest of his unit."

Where does it say how many units we can choose as our target?

Where in the shooting step does it give you permission to check your data sheet before step 3?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Where does it say how many units we can choose as our target?

Gargantuan Creatures on page 70 and Super-heavy Vehicles on page 94.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Where in the shooting step does it give you permission to check your data sheet before step 3?

Why are you following the Shooting process if you haven't checked your datasheet to see if you have shooting weapons to use in the first place? You're given permission in the very first step.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
We are told how things change. Instead of choosing 1 target unit for thr shooting unit some models or weapons can choose other units.

You choose your target at a set point in the sequence, that target is generally 1 enemy unit but along comes a special rule that changes that "your selected unit targets a unit" into either "each weapon may target a separate unit" or "1(/this) model may target a different unit from the rest of his unit."

No, we are not told how things change, just that a change occurs. For an example of this situation in defining how it changes, review the Split Fire rule. No such procedure exists for Super-Heavy, PotMS, or Target Lock targeting.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Where does it say how many units we can choose as our target?

Gargantuan Creatures on page 70 and Super-heavy Vehicles on page 94.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Where in the shooting step does it give you permission to check your data sheet before step 3?

Why are you following the Shooting process if you haven't checked your datasheet to see if you have shooting weapons to use in the first place? You're given permission in the very first step.

The first step is choose a unit. I can do that even if I have left my rules at home. Try again.

Maybe you should read the rules first.instead of making things up.