Legion rules for Blood Angels discussion. (Rules taken from BoLS)

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**Red__Thirst**

First, the rules, taken from BoLS:

when in combat and using a melee weapon BA require 1 less to wound than normal (1 less, not +1str, but same effect, so it stacks with weapon boosts)
may not go to ground
excluding dedicated transports BA may not have more vehicles than units with the legiones astartes rules, this may block certain rites
wargear
any model who can take a volkite serpenta may instead take a hand flamer for price
any model who can take a plasma pistol may take an inferno pistol for a price
praetor, centurion or consul may take a new sword if they can take a power fist, AP2, master crafted, twohanded and each wound caused (before saves) counts as two, rolling saves separate. pretty damn nasty
may take assault cannons same as imperial fists
rites of war
two rites, one offensive, one defensive
offensive rite:
all jump infantry units, must be held in reserves, and must deep strike in on turn one, no rolls needed, all deep striking units (not just jump infantry) gain a +5 cover save on the game turn they arrive, and all shooting attacks from deep striking infantry and jump infantry units gain pinning on the turn they deep strike in. all blood angels gain +1 initiative on the charge, characters must always accept challenges if issued.
compulsory choices for this rite must have jump packs, must take a compulsory fast attack choice, which must have deep strike or be a flyer. can’t take fortifications, sentry guns or any LoWs that aren’t flyers or sanguinius himself.
defensive rite:
immune to pinning, and stubborn while within 3″ of an objective which is in their own deployment zone. enemy units suffer -1 to their sweeping advance rolls when their running away. units that are below 50% of their starting number of models, gains FNP(5+) but counts as destroyed at the end of the game for VPs and are no longer scoring. Characters must issue and accept challenges,

As I intend to, at some future point, make a 30k Blood Angels army, I'm liking this kind of thing. I certainly can see the tie to the 40k Blood Angels.

I really like the requiring one less to wound in melee when using a Melee weapon. Wounding T:4 on 3+, or T:5 on 4+ is pretty awesome. It lends to the Blood Angels being masters of martial combat in a cool and unique way I think.

It's also nifty that BA can take Assault Cannons a-la the Imperial Fists. As an aside, I REALLY like the offensive rite of war. Having an entire 'flying' force appeals to me and I think, once I get to the point of making the list, I'll be doing this heavily and likely including a flyer of some kind (or two) in my army. The defensive rite of war is fun too, though I suppose is for more 'traditional' style with mixtures of Tactical and other style squads. I'll have to think on which kind of force I'll want to make, but the former is the current front-runner.

What say you guys? What do you think?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**Frozocrone**

I'm very happy with the BA rules. They can be just as fast as Emperor's Children (I prize mobility in my lists) and hit hard in combat.

I'm really interested in using the Day of Sorrows (defensive rite) for the Battle of Terra when my gaming group gets round to it. Otherwise I think I'll use the Day of Revelation rites and play BA as they are supposed to, fast and hard hitting in combat

I might just have to try out a Land Speeder squadron full of Assault Cannons haha. Could be fun.

**locarno24**

The +1 to wound does have a few other quirks, too. Against a T7 target (i.e. battle automata), going from S4 to S5 wouldn't actually help you - but +1 to wound does.

It sounds cool. Massed Deep-Striking Assault Squads is very blood angels.

**Gashrog**

The Assault Cannon allowance is frankly a bit obscene. The Imperial Fist rules only allowed any Imperial Fist (and Blood Angel) Terminator squad to take an Assault Cannon in place of a Heavy Flamer.

The Blood Angel rules allow *any* model to replace it's Heavy Flamer with an Assault Cannon so you can have 'Furioso' Contemptors with paired CCW with inbuilt Assault Cannons, 'Baal' Predators with Assault Cannon sponsons and Assault Cannon Heavy Support Squads..

This seems less an indication that Assault Cannons were under trial by the VIIth & IXth legions but rather an indication that the Mechanicum had gone into fullscale production but due to a clerical mixup had sent all the other legions shipments to the IXth..

**Red__Thirst**

I seriously doubt the rules will allow a dreadnought to have a heavy flamer replaced by an Assault Cannon under slung beneath the DCCW.

I'm not 100% up on how the legion rules work in 30k, but I also don't expect there to be any assault cannon heavy weapon squads either. Now the tank option may be one we will see, but how is that any different from a present-day Baal Predator?

Let's wait and see how it's worded in the actual book before we jump to conclusions.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

**Frozocrone**

The rules state (my mate has the book and sent a picture to me, will link when I'm not on my phone) that models equipped with a heavy flamer (including vehicles) may replace with assault cannon for a meltabomb. Predators can take TL version for free.

**Gashrog**

Someone posted photos on Facebook, it literally says: "Any Blood Angels model (including vehicles) equipped with heavy flamers may exchange them for an Iliasus pattern assault cannon for.."

Red__Thirst wrote:
Now the tank option may be one we will see, but how is that any different from a present-day Baal Predator?

Modern Baals can only have Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter Sponsons. The 30k rules allow you to have Assault Cannon sponsons along with the Twin-Linked Assault Cannon turret, though they lack the Fast engines of modern Baals.

**Col. Dash**

Yay, 2nd edition assault cannon spam is back! Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! Who needs close combat when you can have 30 assault cannons sitting in cover. Put the mandatory assault squads behind them and jump out when the now depleted enemy is close. Throw in a few melta vet squads with rhinos and tank hunter or outflank and a twin inferno moritat on the outflank and boom.

**dimdum**

Remember however that 30k assault cannons have the malfunction special rule (unless the blood angels have a better assault cannon) meaning on bad rolls, the many assault cannons that you can invest in may only fire once in a game.

**Decay**

This makes my ideas for a jump pack praetor more vivid in ideas, and I like the defensive RoW as well, shame they lose their ability to be scoring and them counting as being killed, which sounds like a large disadvantage to me on most levels. I do not really understand the first rule however, they require one less wound for what? Would they actually drain a character in combat of one wound before the fighting began?

**gorgon**

Another thing to keep in mind is that BA will get their full army list later, in the book that covers Signus. If the assault cannon thing turns out to be OP, FW will be able to address it at that time.

BA do look very strong, especially if assault squads get the substantial price cut later this year as rumored. And I'm a little disappointed that (apparently) little changed for my WE in the new red book (Caedere weapons stay as is...really?).

But I'm also content to let these things play out.

**Frozocrone**

dimdum wrote:
Remember however that 30k assault cannons have the malfunction special rule (unless the blood angels have a better assault cannon) meaning on bad rolls, the many assault cannons that you can invest in may only fire once in a game.

No they still malfunction. The Predator versions are TL though, which makes it slightly better.

Quoted from my post in FW rumours thread:

Frozocrone wrote:
Everything Blood Angels that my mate has sent to me. Spoilered as I don't know how to condense the pictures into neat lines of pictures.

Spoiler:

Very happy with what my chosen legion can do Doing this because I've seen the previous page had BA info on so assumed it was OK to post.

Does the malfunction rule tally between rolls or for each time I make a to hit roll (ie, does malfunction apply if I roll in one shooting phase 1,1,3,5 and in the next shooting phase 1, 3,5,6; or is it three 1's in the same to hit roll)?

**dimdum**

RAW says tally in my mind, but RAI should be one phase of shooting in my mind too. Seems a bit much to have 3 ones over the course of the game shut down your weapon. My other thought is that it's gonna be a pain in the arse if you equip all your heavy weapon support squad with these guns, you have to roll separately for each guy to see if it jams.

**Gashrog**

My reading of the rule is that it's per shooting phase, since it says to make note "if this is the case" after "the weapon is no longer useable".

Decay wrote:
I do not really understand the first rule however, they require one less wound for what? Would they actually drain a character in combat of one wound before the fighting began?

The number required to wound is one point lower than normal, ie: a Blood Angel Tactical marines (S4) would wound another Tactical marine (T4) on a 3+ instead of a 4+. By doing it this way instead of giving them +1S or the enemy -1T it avoids effecting things like armour penetration and instant death.

**Frozocrone**

It also means they can wound things on 6's that they couldn't normally (ie T8) although I'm not sure if there is a T8 in 30k.

I think. I could be wrong on that.

**Red__Thirst**

For the assault cannon, it's in a single weapon's shooting roll. So it does add a bit of time since if you have, say, 6 assault cannons across your force, you have to roll for each one individually and hope you don't roll triple 1 on any of them when you roll their 4 shots each.

Regarding the rule to wound, in order for it to work, you have to be able to wound it in the first place, I.E. anything over T:7 you can't wound since ST:4 cannot wound T:8 at all. That said, anything you would normally only be wounding on a 6 (T:6 and T:7) you will wound on a 5+ instead of a flat 6. Pretty significant buff in my opinion, since you'll be wounding T:3 on 2+, wounding T:4 on 3+, and T:5 on 4+. Should make Blood Angels fairly effective in melee as they should be.

Just my views on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**Ifurita**

Gashrog wrote:
The Assault Cannon allowance is frankly a bit obscene. The Imperial Fist rules only allowed any Imperial Fist (and Blood Angel) Terminator squad to take an Assault Cannon in place of a Heavy Flamer.

The Blood Angel rules allow *any* model to replace it's Heavy Flamer with an Assault Cannon so you can have 'Furioso' Contemptors with paired CCW with inbuilt Assault Cannons, 'Baal' Predators with Assault Cannon sponsons and Assault Cannon Heavy Support Squads..

This seems less an indication that Assault Cannons were under trial by the VIIth & IXth legions but rather an indication that the Mechanicum had gone into fullscale production but due to a clerical mixup had sent all the other legions shipments to the IXth..

Can you replace the heavy flamers on a Deredeo or Leviathan with assault cannons?

**Frozocrone**

Yes, any model can.

**Col. Dash**

Just a warning, dont go nuts on assault cannons or at least use magnets. FW will likely FAQ which specific units get the option once they notice how crazy people go.

**Brennonjw**

OR we just don't abuse assault cannons since they are not the "end all, be all" of shooting that some people in this thread make it out to be.

**Powerfisting**

Brennonjw wrote:
OR we just don't abuse assault cannons since they are not the "end all, be all" of shooting that some people in this thread make it out to be.

No one's making them out to be the end- all- be- all of shooting. Just having 37 of them for no real reason is the part that everyone is making a big deal over.

**StarHunter25**

So... blood angels librarian ml2. Biomancy, blade of perdition, artificer, jump pack. If you roll the magical iron arm/warp speed combo...well... goodbye most things. 7x I9 STR 7 attacks on the charge with the RoW boost...potentially 14 AP2 wounds from a single model. Ouch...
Even Horus will be hurting from that kind of output.

**Powerfisting**

That would be interesting, if only to actually see librarians taken in 30k.

**Red__Thirst**

I'm looking at doing some extensive purchasing later to pick up a few squads of Jump marines and running a jump pack equipped HQ choice/captain/Praetor as my 30k force, possibly backed up by a fire raptor or similar.

I'm going to have to really sit down later and learn how to build a 30k force and then figure out what I'm going to buy in what order.

Looking forward to it though, for sure.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

**teban**

Blood Angels are awesome. Please do a cool conversion for that perdition blade on your praetor!

Building a 30k force is awesome mate. There are some many kinds of units that combinations are basically endless.

I, for example, want to build a stone gauntlet base army (Rite of War for the 7th), using 40 breachers and 40 phalanx warders. But also, a Templar heavy army is very tempting.

Having bought 30 warders and 20 templars, i think I'm on a good track... But I need more as you may have noticed :p

Remember that 30k is quite balanced and is very game-friendly oriented!

**Caederes**

Their Legion buff is definitely one of the best close combat oriented ones, and their unique stuff - Rites of War, wargear - are all pretty good. Massed assault cannons could be a viable strategy. I didn't hear anything about Assault Squads getting points cost reductions in the updated red book but at least Blood Angels give us a reason to use them now.

**gorgon**

The designers confirmed that an assault squad points cut was coming in the updated Crusade Army List book. They apparently talked like it was going to be a significant one. Sounds like it'll be a few months before we know the details though.

As a WE player, I'd love to have cheaper AS so I don't have to mech up all my crazies. It'd make a real impact on my listbuilding.

I admit that I'm kinda jealous over some of the stuff other Legions received. BA will be formidable in CC, and got some nice unique weaponry while my Caedere weapons will apparently continue to languish in meh-ville.

**Formosa**

StarHunter25 wrote:
So... blood angels librarian ml2. Biomancy, blade of perdition, artificer, jump pack. If you roll the magical iron arm/warp speed combo...well... goodbye most things. 7x I9 STR 7 attacks on the charge with the RoW boost...potentially 14 AP2 wounds from a single model. Ouch...
Even Horus will be hurting from that kind of output.

Why not ml3?

**Powerfisting**

Formosa wrote:
StarHunter25 wrote:
So... blood angels librarian ml2. Biomancy, blade of perdition, artificer, jump pack. If you roll the magical iron arm/warp speed combo...well... goodbye most things. 7x I9 STR 7 attacks on the charge with the RoW boost...potentially 14 AP2 wounds from a single model. Ouch...
Even Horus will be hurting from that kind of output.

Why not ml3?

Didn't they ninja update libbies to only be ml2 in the red book?

**Formosa**

Sort of, if your not given a mastery level (which were not) then your automatically mastery level 1, you can then buy 2 more levels, needs an faq to be sure, but at the mo, mastery is an option