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So! I really hate the 32mm bases. They take away from the model in my oponion,

OOP assassins are 25mm bases and look really terrible. New ones are on 32mm. Would it be acceptable to not use the 32mm base and use the 25mm base on the new plastic assassin kit? This seems like modeling for advantage, but the same issues creep up with the assault marines and devastator marines. Would it be considered modeling for advantage to not put any of them on 32s and run 25s like the oop versions?

I wouldn't mind, though I like 32mm since it gives a better sense of scale in my mind. it makes the marines look bigger then a guardsmen, even if just slightly.

That is very true. I just was wondering if there is a rule "base it with the base it comes with... or else!"

Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc.

I don't think most people would be bothered, but if someone asked you to treat the base as if it were 32mm, you would be obliged to do so.

blaktoof wrote:
Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc.

In past editions that was true. The current edition states the following:

The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with.

blaktoof wrote:
Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc.

I don't think most people would be bothered, but if someone asked you to treat the base as if it were 32mm, you would be obliged to do so.

Wrong. No hard and fast rules. The rules actually just assume you're using the base they were supplied with, but don't actually require it.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with."

It goes one to say that in instances were a non standard base is used or there is no supplied base that you "should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

So, what's appropriate? Well, there are 4 Assassin models in the Officio Assasinorum Faction. All 4 are supplied with 32mm bases. It seems most appropriate to use a 32mm base. Using anything else is a tough sell as the most similar types of models that you'd be using as guidance all come with 32mm bases now.

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc.

I don't think most people would be bothered, but if someone asked you to treat the base as if it were 32mm, you would be obliged to do so.

Wrong. No hard and fast rules. The rules actually just assume you're using the base they were supplied with, but don't actually require it.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with."

It goes one to say that in instances were a non standard base is used or there is no supplied base that you "should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

So, what's appropriate? Well, there are 4 Assassin models in the Officio Assasinorum Faction. All 4 are supplied with 32mm bases. It seems most appropriate to use a 32mm base. Using anything else is a tough sell as the most similar types of models that you'd be using as guidance all come with 32mm bases now.

That would stand to reason. But again, the OOP versions are on 25mm. New are on 32mm. I have 8x bloodthirsters on 60mm bases. Should they all be ovals now? Why is it unidirectional?

I would model them with what they came with. I don't expect people to rebase old models but what comes in the box comes in the box.

I use a vostroyan sniper as my vindicare on a 25mm base, a harlequin conversion as my callidus on a 25mm base and I'm gonna be converting a sicarian ruststalker as an eversor on a 40mm base.

Anyone who's petty enough to complain about a couple millimetre radius is someone I don't particularly want to play against.

IMO put them on whatever size you want, within reason of course.

I've heard that larger bases are actually less competitive, especially in crowded close combats, so even the pickiest competitor wouldn't mind larger.

For most other opponents, the Rule of Cool applies: if it's painted and modeled well, it plays.

It really doesn't make that big a difference but I think a bigger base is better for individual models and worse for larger units.

 Ghaz wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc.

In past editions that was true. The current edition states the following:

The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with.

This does not say you can use whatever base you want.

This says the rules in the book are for models on the bases they are supplied with. if you want to use other bases the rules do not consider your models.

op is asking about taking the 32mm base a model comes with and not using it. instead using a smaller base the model does not come with.

blaktoof wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc.

In past editions that was true. The current edition states the following:

The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with.

This does not say you can use whatever base you want.

This says the rules in the book are for models on the bases they are supplied with. if you want to use other bases the rules do not consider your models.

op is asking about taking the 32mm base a model comes with and not using it. instead using a smaller base the model does not come with.

What the rules actually say is that they assume models are based on the bases they are supplied with, but that sometimes models are unusually based and that you may feel free to use a suitably sized base with reference to similar models.

So using a 25mm base is entirely okay per the rules.

I've haven't seen the old assassin models in person in a long while. Are the new ones noticeably bigger?

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I've haven't seen the old assassin models in person in a long while. Are the new ones noticeably bigger?

I believe it's mostly the models' scenic nature, but if assembled without the scenic bits I don't think there's much difference.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc.

In past editions that was true. The current edition states the following:

The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with.

This does not say you can use whatever base you want.

This says the rules in the book are for models on the bases they are supplied with. if you want to use other bases the rules do not consider your models.

op is asking about taking the 32mm base a model comes with and not using it. instead using a smaller base the model does not come with.

What the rules actually say is that they assume models are based on the bases they are supplied with, but that sometimes models are unusually based and that you may feel free to use a suitably sized base with reference to similar models.

So using a 25mm base is entirely okay per the rules.

Your quote supports what I am saying above, both times.

Since the rules seem to allow the modeler to model them the way they want I only use 32mm bases on power armor. And since assassins aren't wearing power armor I put them on 25mm bases just like my Imperial Guard. It doesn't make sense any other way (to me).

blaktoof wrote:
Your quote supports what I am saying above, both times.

Your original quote was, "Models must be put on the bases they are supplied with, is a rule in the main rulebook iirc."

Which is incorrect.

I was clarifying that in fact the rules have provision for models not put on the bases they were supplied with, and that with the appropriate model reference you may use different bases.

For example it seems entirely legal to model Space Marine Scouts on 32mm bases.

I'm generally ok with people going up in terms of base sizes because they want to model something more scenic, but iffy on going down since that actually gives some advantages.

However, since the assassins were originally on 25mm and because I despise GW's peddling of 32mms everywhere, I am totally ok with it in this instance, provided no part of the model hangs off the base

Models must be modeled on the base they are supplied with.

Got the old models? 25mm
Got the new ones? 32mm

It's that simple.

I had some guy pull me up at a tournament about using the larger bases for my jetbikes models. Tried to tell me I was modelling for advantage, by giving my Seer council larger bases. I then informed him that when I purchased the jetbike models, in 1996, they came with the large size.

Belly wrote:
Models must be modeled on the base they are supplied with.

Sigh.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with. Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren’t supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

The rules make allowance for bases other than the one supplied with a given model.

2 of the 3 necron overlords have 25mm bases. The standard clampack overlord hasa terminator base. Only because the pose its in.

I cut off that rock and reposed the leg and now it's on a 25mm like the rest of them. More modeling for consistency the anything else.

Use whichever you want, at the end of the day they're your models.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

Belly wrote:
Models must be modeled on the base they are supplied with.

Sigh.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with. Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren’t supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

The rules make allowance for bases other than the one supplied with a given model.

Right, but the hitch is that the most "appropriate size" will almost always be the base it came with.

 Kriswall wrote:
Right, but the hitch is that the most "appropriate size" will almost always be the base it came with.

Maybe. Considering the guidance we're given for determining propriety is "models of a similar type" though (does that mean unit type? Battlefield role? General appearance? Size? Any of the above?) there's plenty of wiggle room.

I think we're probably agreed though that common sense, of course, should prevail.

Belly wrote:

I had some guy pull me up at a tournament about using the larger bases for my jetbikes models. Tried to tell me I was modelling for advantage, by giving my Seer council larger bases. I then informed him that when I purchased the jetbike models, in 1996, they came with the large size.

I find this curious. In 1996 there was no Farseer or Warlock on a Jetbike model. Therefore if you made a Jetbike into one of these, it was a conversion. Or you're using a Jetbike as a Skyrunner now, and it's therefore a proxy.

For me, I find the argument shifts when we're no longer discussing a previous version of a model. Now that there is a model available, your conversion/proxy should match as it is the only criteria to compare to should it not?

28 compared to 32 isn't going to make much of a difference. I put my captain on a 32 while pretty much everyone else is on a 28 to give him a bit more prescience and room for me to make a cool base.

If someone went way big or small I might say something but of all the modeling for advantage i've seen over the years basing is rarely one of them.

I modelled my assassins on 25mm because I thought the 32mm bases looked too big (yes, I am nitpicking 7mm). The scenic part of the vindicare model fits perfectly on a 25mm base anyway. Not sure about the Culexes or the Eversor.

28 is a bit to small for the eversor and culexes as I looked at both when I got my copy of execution force. The Calidus can go on either but balances better on a bigger base since she is top heavy.

 Cieged wrote:

Belly wrote:

I had some guy pull me up at a tournament about using the larger bases for my jetbikes models. Tried to tell me I was modelling for advantage, by giving my Seer council larger bases. I then informed him that when I purchased the jetbike models, in 1996, they came with the large size.

I find this curious. In 1996 there was no Farseer or Warlock on a Jetbike model. Therefore if you made a Jetbike into one of these, it was a conversion. Or you're using a Jetbike as a Skyrunner now, and it's therefore a proxy.

For me, I find the argument shifts when we're no longer discussing a previous version of a model. Now that there is a model available, your conversion/proxy should match as it is the only criteria to compare to should it not?

Well, you're supposed to use "models of a similar type as guidance". If I'm making a Farseer on Jetbike conversion, I think it would be hard to argue that the official Farseer on Jetbike model isn't the MOST similar type of model.

The real question is what else is considered similar... and how similar is similar enough? A power armoured Marine Captain is obviously similar to a power armoured Tactical Marine, who is on a 25mm or 32mm base, depending on the kit. He's also similar to Wolf Lord Krom, who is a Space Marine "Captain" of sorts and comes on a 40mm base. In that sense, you could easily use anything between 25 and 40mm.

For the Assassin... all current Officio Assassinorum models come on 32mm bases. Hence, the MOST similar model's base would be 32mm. You could also argue that Inquisitorial Assassins currently come on 25mm bases. That's a harder sell because it's a different army and a different unit with different equipment. It's definitely less similar.

Discounting issues of similarity, the rule of cool comes into play. If the conversion looks cool enough and isn't obviously a modelling for advantage issue, most people will be willing to let things slide.