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I got back into 40k a few years ago and switched over from Marines to Orks because I feel they bit me a bit better then those beakie boyz. I got all excited that Orks were going to get a brand new Codex.....only to be heavily let down with how terrible it was. Mob rule got ruined, Ghaz became a wimp, Deff rollaz gone, basically everything for them sucks now except for Mek Gunz which always make me money in games.

Then I got excited that GW was going to release an Ork Waaagh supplement! yay they realized they nerfed orks in an edition where everyone is getting buffs. But then I read the book and was again heavily let down. Formation with 5 BattleWagonz that lets me scout them? but it specifically spells out not assaulting turn 1....wtf GW? So another ork supplement that is just plain garbage.

Finally, they do a revision to Waaagh Ghazghkuul, I was in my local GW store and they let me read the store copy. From what I just read its the same book but it has an Orkurion formation in it as well as a couple of other minor tweaks and 3 flyer formations that at best are underwhelming. I did the math for the Orkurion, and just to field the darn thing I am going to need to be playing a 2000pt game or bigger in order to get any kind of benefit from the formation which in essence is just a way to bring in multiple units without a FoC.

So here is the question, I understand that other codex's have problems as well, Nids, Dark Eldar, IG, but have any of them receive so many supplements, Codexes and such that are utter garbage? At this point I feel that Orks are meant to suck so that Eldar, Necrons, Space Marines and a few other armies have a punching bag they can beat every time and feel good about themselves.

Am I over reacting or is this the general feeling in 40k these days? Orks are just there to be steamrolled?

i know the feeling, I was so excited about the new ork codex but that excitement was destroyed when it was revealed how bad the new codex was. GW by accident put the codex on sale early and that person revealed the information. The good news is the next new codex can't be worse or could it?

GW's rules department I think has very little accountability for what they produce and so favoritism comes into play. Eldar for example where one of the strongest armies in the game in 6th and they buffed them to the high heavens with their new codex. Dark Eldar had a rather meh codex and by many accounts got nerfed in their 7th edtion codex. Tau campaign book had crazy good Tau formations/Taucurion while in the very same supplement Guard got their formations/Cadicurion which are of dubious quality (decent formations honestly, the Cadian Detachment is so unwieldy that you can't field a practical army with it). The Ghazz "update" was a copy paste joke but I think its less about hating Orks as its about the rules department not having anybody on the team that is passionate about the boyz. Also the apparent lack of quality playtesting at GW HQ is so bad that its no wonder the rules writers have no idea what is going on when people actually try to play the game. Im going to hold my "GW hates Orks" until whenever the next Ork codex comes out. Remember the adage "never assume malice when stupidity will suffice",

Because if you play the classic villains (CSM, Tyranids, Orks) you're playing the NPCs for the protagonists to defeat. Forge that narrative!

I don't think they're there to be a punching bag for Eldar because ultimately if the Eldar players takes the cheesy options they probably will steamroll you anyway.

Your rules are bad because GW are bad at writing rules.

 Vankraken wrote:
GW's rules department I think has very little accountability for what they produce and so favoritism comes into play. Eldar for example where one of the strongest armies in the game in 6th and they buffed them to the high heavens with their new codex. Dark Eldar had a rather meh codex and by many accounts got nerfed in their 7th edtion codex. Tau campaign book had crazy good Tau formations/Taucurion while in the very same supplement Guard got their formations/Cadicurion which are of dubious quality (decent formations honestly, the Cadian Detachment is so unwieldy that you can't field a practical army with it). The Ghazz "update" was a copy paste joke but I think its less about hating Orks as its about the rules department not having anybody on the team that is passionate about the boyz. Also the apparent lack of quality playtesting at GW HQ is so bad that its no wonder the rules writers have no idea what is going on when people actually try to play the game. Im going to hold my "GW hates Orks" until whenever the next Ork codex comes out. Remember the adage "never assume malice when stupidity will suffice",

indeed the problem is that the rules team knows little on how to make rules for new units or adjust little for armies they dont play or that HQ doesnt playtest for. they dont playtest or themselves play orks so its very likely anything they do is a total shot in the dark. their rules department is also being whipped in the rear hard to write rules at a backbreaking pace to the point why i wonder if anyones ever walked off the job sighting excessive work stress. the dark angels codex is wht i feel iws an example of this. it should have been a good book, the playtest with space marines all the time and the space marine codex was literally a week earlier but then half the book got done. essentially the codex was written with half of it probably having been playtested and refined. its why i argue azreal and belial are so phoned in as models and why terminators flat out dont work unless you run a CAD meanwhile the bikes are buttery smooth and the normal marines have all recieved much needed work.

As bad as Orks have it right now, it's still nowhere close to the level of pure vitriol that GW holds towards Chaos Marine players...

Orks at least have an overall gorgeous model line, and one that's now almost entirely plastic.
CSM's have a model that's been left to rot for over 10 years now, that's full of missing options and/or useless kits, with the majority of our infantry based units still languishing as Fineco$t and/or nothing more than Finecrap bitz packs.

Orks made Marines in general cry in 3rd edition, while their 4th edition codex stood the test of time as well as the current Daemons book is doing.
CSM's went from the 3.5ed codex, to having their army entirely gutted & dumbed down to the level of "inferior spiky Marines", and have stayed firmly rooted with an nearly unplayable rules set since 2007!
Meanwhile, every single unique toy & rule that Chaos had, has been handed out like candy across all the various Loyalist books. Pretty much the only 'unique' rule/item left to Chaos Marines is the 'Daemon' USR and Daemon Engines... everything else they have is now a -10 version of a shiny Loyalist toy.



Basically, as mentioned above, if you're choosing one of the 'bad guy' armies, then for now, you're going to be playing at a marked disadvantage simply so that Little Timmy can get his instant gratification fix and blast you bits with 0 effort with his super toys.

Orks have recently been fed a couple of poor books, coupled with being on the losing side of a sudden shift in design styles. (which GW has been guilty of doing since forever!)

Dark Eldar had one of the best balanced books of 5th ed, but had their play style completely wrecked by 6th/7th ed core rules.
Their current codex nuked the HQ section, mainly due to the GW vs. Chapterhouse case.

Tyranids have had two poor books in a row now, and suffer from being a slow moving assault based army, in a shooting dominated edition where cover is mostly meaningless as it's now so easy to ignore. (*cough*tau*cough*)
Daemons for example prove that assault is definitely not dead at all, but unlike Tyranids, Daemons get the magical trifecta of army-wide invuln saves, ('Nids rely on cover), incredible speed (everything Slaanesh + soooo many Beast/Cav options), and access to the game's best Psychic lores (Divination, Invis, Malefic).
Tyranids get none of that, and instead rely on a bare handful of staple units to keep them afloat.

Chaos Marines have it the absolute worst however... We're still paying off our debt apparently from waaaaaay back in the day when we had the sheer audacity to win the Eye of Terror campaign. The amount of Loyalist whining was glorious to behold, yet has doomed us to now remain forever under the booted heels of our Imperial masters, for fear of GW losing out on Space Marine sales.

Oh, I think it's worse than that, my friends. Put on your conspiracy theory hats, 'cause I got a good one.

The big reasons have been covered (favoritism, "bad guy" syndrome). But what's a huge element on the hobby side of Orks, and by extension CSM? Conversion. Kitbashing. Creating new and unique models. Scraping together something entirely original and different to bring to the table. It's the Conversion Conspiracy.

With the heavy hitting poster boys/elves/others, the models are taken at face value. Sure, yeah, you can change the paint and add some heraldry; most do. But actually converting the model? Using spare bitz to create something unique and different? Or (shock!) finding a third party alternative? Such things are a rarity with those factions, and discouraged by their aesthetic. When was the last time you've seen a Rhino, or Riptide, or a squad of Necrons look any different from the rest?

But not Orks. Or Chaos. Or even AM. These are armies who's entire existence is based upon defying the standard convention and being different. Orks will loot anything to make it their own; players should do the same to make their klans unique. Chaos warps all that it touches, in unlimited ways; no single Chaos soldier should look alike. AM are from billions of worlds with unique cultures and customs; having all Cadians all the time is pointless. These are armies that scream for the converter's touch. But that means anyone looking at these models many not instantly recognize them as GW property. Or, even worse: they may not be official merchandise at all! *horrified screams*

So what does GW do? They discourage the factions that actively promote this flavor and desire to create something new. Inferior rules and point costs are handed down from on high, leaving them lackluster on the table. Well then, of course people will stop playing them and move on to the big boy factions, with their giant robots and monstrous creature walkers. Because if you defy the out-of-the-box aesthetic of those, it's akin to heresy. And so, the heroes of the galaxy continue on, looking indistinguishable beyond paint color, stomping any sense of individualism or creativity beneath their fascist boots.

Do I have anything to back up this theory? Nah. But, it amuses me, so I figured I'd share.

I agree CSM have it pretty bad, they did have one shining light the hell turkey but that was snuffed out.

 Scourged wrote:
Oh, I think it's worse than that, my friends. Put on your conspiracy theory hats, 'cause I got a good one.

The big reasons have been covered (favoritism, "bad guy" syndrome). But what's a huge element on the hobby side of Orks, and by extension CSM? Conversion. Kitbashing. Creating new and unique models. Scraping together something entirely original and different to bring to the table. It's the Conversion Conspiracy.

With the heavy hitting poster boys/elves/others, the models are taken at face value. Sure, yeah, you can change the paint and add some heraldry; most do. But actually converting the model? Using spare bitz to create something unique and different? Or (shock!) finding a third party alternative? Such things are a rarity with those factions, and discouraged by their aesthetic. When was the last time you've seen a Rhino, or Riptide, or a squad of Necrons look any different from the rest?

But not Orks. Or Chaos. Or even AM. These are armies who's entire existence is based upon defying the standard convention and being different. Orks will loot anything to make it their own; players should do the same to make their klans unique. Chaos warps all that it touches, in unlimited ways; no single Chaos soldier should look alike. AM are from billions of worlds with unique cultures and customs; having all Cadians all the time is pointless. These are armies that scream for the converter's touch. But that means anyone looking at these models many not instantly recognize them as GW property. Or, even worse: they may not be official merchandise at all! *horrified screams*

So what does GW do? They discourage the factions that actively promote this flavor and desire to create something new. Inferior rules and point costs are handed down from on high, leaving them lackluster on the table. Well then, of course people will stop playing them and move on to the big boy factions, with their giant robots and monstrous creature walkers. Because if you defy the out-of-the-box aesthetic of those, it's akin to heresy. And so, the heroes of the galaxy continue on, looking indistinguishable beyond paint color, stomping any sense of individualism or creativity beneath their fascist boots.

Do I have anything to back up this theory? Nah. But, it amuses me, so I figured I'd share.

Good theory but I will argue that it doesn't work for Dark Eldar who clearly aren't given the same level of love as their puritan brethren or Nids who aren't really easy to kit bash outside of adding or changing details on a model. IG, Orks, and Nids are huge numbers armies which would mean big sales from selling lots of models. IG and Orks also love transports so you get a lot of favorable to GW dollars to points ratio purchases. Ork kit bashers and converters are often times buying other army faction kits to loot parts for their models. Chaos is still using GW kits for most of their conversions so it doesn't hurt GWs bottom line if Bobby McNurgle Fan wants to green stuff a bunch of growth all over his bikers or his rhinos. If anything GW would want to discourage armies like Grey Knights which basically can make a 2000 point army out of the Nemesis Vanguard Box they put out a year and a half ago. 2000 points of even kitbashed Orks is going to net more money for GW than a 2000 point GK army.

But again I think its a fun and interesting theory that does hit the point about the possible love/hate GW's bottom line might have with converting models and kitbashing. I would give you a clapping Orkmoticon but I don't see one on here so have this and kitbash it to be a clapping Ork

Let me be the first to predict, the end of seventh will herald the Chaos Space Marine codex arrival and it will be the cheesiest codex since 3.5

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Let me be the first to predict, the end of seventh will herald the Chaos Space Marine codex arrival and it will be the cheesiest codex since 3.5

Nah, we'll get the new Chaos Marine codex as the last book of 7th, but "designed with 8th in mind" (though not really, just with a few potentially 'new rules' bitz bolted on hastily just like our current book is a 5th ed book with 6th ed bitz slapped onto it)

It will also be the first book to change the design styles again, and signal the shift back to simplified rules and dialing back the power levels of the game...

This will soon end however, with only Tyranids, Orks & (maybe) Guard getting the same treatment, before the new Grey Knights book gets released and ramps everything back up to super OP'ness.

And Loyalist players will still whine to no end that the CSM codex will have exactly one viable build that will be able to last 3 turns before being tabled by our Imperial betters.

Because they're not Space Marines
'Nuff Said

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Let me be the first to predict, the end of seventh will herald the Chaos Space Marine codex arrival and it will be the cheesiest codex since 3.5

Then get nuked in 8th..

But if it still stands in 8th then I would be shaking my fist in the air and swearing as loud as I could whilst smashing all the Eldar models with the metal dread in a sock.

But yeah I prepared my tin foil hat for this thread, and I do agree with the theory of favoritism, Its what I've been saying for years

The only thing I can come up with is this.

( Warning this is pure speculation)

- GW has grouped their costumers in profile groups and plans their releases on those. The same way other companies try to offer products for different parts of their costumer base.
- They created the modern Eldar and Tau factions for the competitive minded players. Who are not into huge armies, converting or scratch building.
-The ork faction is build for the hobbyists who play casual games and don't care that much for the power lv of the rules.
- Imperial guards is for the collectors who like to collect huge more realistic armies.

Orks are one of the few Armies that are affected by each and every special rule in the game right now. Shooting, assaults, wound allocation, ignores cover, pinning, challenges, sweeping advance, charging through cover, open topped vehicles, overwatch, wall of death, dangerous terrain, psychic powers, blasts and templates, high toughness monsters, tanks, and super heavy vehicles.

So in a sense, GW LOVES orks!

I dont think they hate them, but theyre a hard one to get right. Orks have been turned into the cannon fodder/ lucky roll race.
Doesnt help with the LOTR, Elf v Ork movies
They were always the lucky roll race. They can nearly shoot, they can chop and theres lots of 50/50 game winners.
If all the races got thrown at a wall. It will end up green, half the time.

the ancient wrote:
I dont think they hate them, but theyre a hard one to get right. Orks have been turned into the cannon fodder/ lucky roll race.
Doesnt help with the LOTR, Elf v Ork movies
They were always the lucky roll race. They can nearly shoot, they can chop and theres lots of 50/50 game winners.
If all the races got thrown at a wall. It will end up green, half the time.

Problem with GW is they don't understand design enough to realize how problematic their random rolls are. For the Orks most of the lucky roll results are slightly above average "good" result while the "bad" result is generally abysmal. A lot of other armies get a similar good result but without the chance of a bad or weaker result. The risk/reward isn't there so they tend to get ignored for things that are more reliable. Go big or go home style gameplay isn't exactly ideal for competitive play but even in casual games the big isn't big enough and the go home is far too common. The Zzap Gun, Bubble Chucka, Smasha Gun, Deffstorm Mega-Shoota, and Shokk Attack Gun are all weapons with extreme RNG with their results that really hinder their reliability. The Zzap and Smasha guns are really designed to take out vehicles and yet their RNG strength is another random variable that makes it difficult to rely on them being effective in any way. Trying to shoot at an AV13 Knight with a Smasha Gun but you rolled 2 so now all 5 of your Smasha Guns have zero chance to harm the knight. For similar points you could probably get lascannons that are going to always put out Str 9 shots. The 1 in 6 chance of Str 10 and AP1 isn't worth the rather high chance of rolling low strength which makes the weapon entirely useless. The only three RNG weapons that I think work decently enough is the Snazzgun for Flash Gitz, Deffgun for Lootas, and the Blitza Bommer's Boom Bomb. The Bomb Bomb has a very slight chance of failure but it also has a very slight chance of a critical success (being able to shoot all their weapons into the rear armor or something) while the Deffgun on average is equal to an autocannon but can go +1 or -1 on its total shots. The Snazzgun at least has reliable strength and volume of fire so that if it rolls poorly for AP it can still just throw a lot of dice at the thing to force saves while the upside is that 33% of the time its ignoring all armor and 50% of the time it can chew through MEQs. Just like in games like MtG or Hearthstone the RNG cards need to have a decent enough positive with a small enough negative to justify the unreliability of the ability. Added RNG in itself is a negative trait for an action, even something like a heavy weapon team being able to take an autocannon or a deffgun for the same points would generally opt to take the autocannon because getting 2 shots is reliable while D3 could overkill or fall short which results in higher wasted potential.

 Vankraken wrote:

Problem with GW is they don't understand design enough to realize how problematic their random rolls are. For the Orks most of the lucky roll results

I don't believe this at all. Those designers aren't stupid.
The thing that might be going on there is that they realise that some players like random effects, while others hate it.
I haven't seen a random eldar table in a long time, while Chaos and Ork players have lots of them them.

I completely agree. Paying points for a SAG or a Blitza-bomma (just a couple of examples) is always a risk because not only can your opponent kill them, if you roll badly you can destroy them yourselves and they aren't exactly OP when you roll well. Just as a side note: not all of our 'roll DX for S or AP' need to be rolled once for the whole unit, Lootas and Snazzguns have one roll for the unit but Zzap Gunz, Bubblechuckas and Smasha Gunz say roll for the gun and not the unit. I don't have my Codex here right now so can't provide a direct quote but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

Problem with GW is they don't understand design enough to realize how problematic their random rolls are. For the Orks most of the lucky roll results

I don't believe this at all. Those designers aren't stupid.
The thing that might be going on there is that they realise that some players like random effects, while others hate it.
I haven't seen a random eldar table in a long time, while Chaos and Ork players have lots of them them.

Actually, I think they are.

Most of us do. But this is a big stock market listed company that has been there for 30+ years and these sort of things directly effect sales. There is no way that GW isn't aware of what is powerful in their game and what is kinda weak or the aversion of random tables by some of their costumers.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Most of us do. But this is a big stock market listed company that has been there for 30+ years and these sort of things directly effect sales. There is no way that GW isn't aware of what is powerful in their game and what is kinda weak or the aversion of random tables by some of their costumers.

I don't think they are. Truly. I don't think they even play their own game.

Martel732 wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Most of us do. But this is a big stock market listed company that has been there for 30+ years and these sort of things directly effect sales. There is no way that GW isn't aware of what is powerful in their game and what is kinda weak or the aversion of random tables by some of their costumers.

I don't think they are. Truly. I don't think they even play their own game.

They do play their own game, just not in any kind of actual, organised hyper-competitive style.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Most of us do. But this is a big stock market listed company that has been there for 30+ years and these sort of things directly effect sales. There is no way that GW isn't aware of what is powerful in their game and what is kinda weak or the aversion of random tables by some of their costumers.

I don't think they are. Truly. I don't think they even play their own game.

They do play their own game, just not in any kind of actual, organised hyper-competitive style.

I am with Martel on this one. Anyone who bothered to playtest the recent ork nonsense would have realized that having a rule written into every formation where your warlord HAS to issue challenges is a massive negative, even if the bonus is that if he wins one time he gets to reroll failed to wound. Orks characters and IC are always ALWAYS thrown into units of boyz, bikes or nobz to hide them from the enemy and in CC they are supposed to dish out a bunch of S8+ AP2 wounds with there power klaws, getting stuck in a challenge is bad because Ork Characters and IC have ZERO access to Invuls in CC. And the other universal formation rule for Orks is +2 on the Mob Rule table. Meaning you will ALWAYS lose D3+3 wounds.

So almost every new formation and decurion is full of bonuses across the board, the Ork ones come with a penalty and minimal bonus's if any at all

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Most of us do. But this is a big stock market listed company that has been there for 30+ years and these sort of things directly effect sales. There is no way that GW isn't aware of what is powerful in their game and what is kinda weak or the aversion of random tables by some of their costumers.

I don't think they are. Truly. I don't think they even play their own game.

They do play their own game, just not in any kind of actual, organised hyper-competitive style.

I am with Martel on this one. Anyone who bothered to playtest the recent ork nonsense would have realized that having a rule written into every formation where your warlord HAS to issue challenges is a massive negative, even if the bonus is that if he wins one time he gets to reroll failed to wound. Orks characters and IC are always ALWAYS thrown into units of boyz, bikes or nobz to hide them from the enemy and in CC they are supposed to dish out a bunch of S8+ AP2 wounds with there power klaws, getting stuck in a challenge is bad because Ork Characters and IC have ZERO access to Invuls in CC. And the other universal formation rule for Orks is +2 on the Mob Rule table. Meaning you will ALWAYS lose D3+3 wounds.

So almost every new formation and decurion is full of bonuses across the board, the Ork ones come with a penalty and minimal bonus's if any at all

Hey, at least Orks can get around that by simply not taking their formations/Orkcurion...

You know which close combat army gets that rule 24/7 & can't turn it off? Chaos Marines.

Experiment 626 wrote:

You know which close combat army gets that rule 24/7 & can't turn it off? Chaos Marines.

You have my condolences

 Vankraken wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

You know which close combat army gets that rule 24/7 & can't turn it off? Chaos Marines.

You have my condolences

What's hilarious about ours, is when that lowly Cultist Champion becomes a Daemon Prince for killing a Guard Sergeant, while Abaddon instead turns into a Chaos Spawn for killing that Grey Knight Grandmaster...

(note: true story! though the FAQ has thankfully now prevented Abby from going spawn anymore.)

ThatGuyFromThatPlace wrote:
Anyone who bothered to playtest the recent ork nonsense would have realized that having a rule written into every formation where your warlord HAS to issue challenges is a massive negative, even if the bonus is that if he wins one time he gets to reroll failed to wound. Orks characters and IC are always ALWAYS thrown into units of boyz, bikes or nobz to hide them from the enemy and in CC they are supposed to dish out a bunch of S8+ AP2 wounds with there power klaws, getting stuck in a challenge is bad because Ork Characters and IC have ZERO access to Invuls in CC.

The purpose of the rule is to make games more cinematic. It's much more heroic when Little Timmy's chapter master defeats the big bad warboss in single combat. And the lack of invulnerable save is there to help ensure the proper result. I'd say this is working as intended.

Martel your just going to have to suck it up til the Angels get to Terra.Not that I dont feel your pain. BL have tried to make him a bit of a dick. At the expense of the the Ultras

I always think of the Ole Ork telling the grots a bed time story.+
2nd ed? You know, the not rah rah Orks. The grots sitting on his knee... and then what happened. Well we waz all seeing the great green. Light my pipe.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vankraken wrote:

the ancient wrote:
I dont think they hate them, but theyre a hard one to get right. Orks have been turned into the cannon fodder/ lucky roll race.
Doesnt help with the LOTR, Elf v Ork movies
They were always the lucky roll race. They can nearly shoot, they can chop and theres lots of 50/50 game winners.
If all the races got thrown at a wall. It will end up green, half the time.

Problem with GW is they don't understand design enough to realize how problematic their random rolls are. For the Orks most of the lucky roll results are slightly above average "good" result while the "bad" result is generally abysmal. A lot of other armies get a similar good result but without the chance of a bad or weaker result. The risk/reward isn't there so they tend to get ignored for things that are more reliable. Go big or go home style gameplay isn't exactly ideal for competitive play but even in casual games the big isn't big enough and the go home is far too common. The Zzap Gun, Bubble Chucka, Smasha Gun, Deffstorm Mega-Shoota, and Shokk Attack Gun are all weapons with extreme RNG with their results that really hinder their reliability. The Zzap and Smasha guns are really designed to take out vehicles and yet their RNG strength is another random variable that makes it difficult to rely on them being effective in any way. Trying to shoot at an AV13 Knight with a Smasha Gun but you rolled 2 so now all 5 of your Smasha Guns have zero chance to harm the knight. For similar points you could probably get lascannons that are going to always put out Str 9 shots. The 1 in 6 chance of Str 10 and AP1 isn't worth the rather high chance of rolling low strength which makes the weapon entirely useless. The only three RNG weapons that I think work decently enough is the Snazzgun for Flash Gitz, Deffgun for Lootas, and the Blitza Bommer's Boom Bomb. The Bomb Bomb has a very slight chance of failure but it also has a very slight chance of a critical success (being able to shoot all their weapons into the rear armor or something) while the Deffgun on average is equal to an autocannon but can go +1 or -1 on its total shots. The Snazzgun at least has reliable strength and volume of fire so that if it rolls poorly for AP it can still just throw a lot of dice at the thing to force saves while the upside is that 33% of the time its ignoring all armor and 50% of the time it can chew through MEQs. Just like in games like MtG or Hearthstone the RNG cards need to have a decent enough positive with a small enough negative to justify the unreliability of the ability. Added RNG in itself is a negative trait for an action, even something like a heavy weapon team being able to take an autocannon or a deffgun for the same points would generally opt to take the autocannon because getting 2 shots is reliable while D3 could overkill or fall short which results in higher wasted potential.

See theres your problem. Dey dont gaf about wasted potenshun, theys Orkz. Its either blow gak up, or miss it by a mile, or blow themselves up.
Theyre a fun army to play, and play against. It might not be comp. But with a few lucky rolls,theyll can stomp Eldar into the dirt