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TLDR; New player, IG bad starting choice?

I've been trying very hard to avoid getting into wargaming over the years because of the cost, but one of my friends are pushing hard for me to start building at least one army so I can stop borrowing the occasional army for the bi-yearly refresher course.

I'm not really into SM religious overtones, or the silly space elf Eldar. But I've always liked the WW2 theme that IG has been having. However skimming threads here, it seems IG are scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of balance these days. So... bad time to get started as IG? I was thinking something like a balanced army of footsoldiers supported by APCs and Tanks. Pretty standard.

Alternatively I've considered Orkz on account of "rule of cool", but one of my friends already play those to death so it's not my first choice.

Imperial Guard, Or Astra Militarum as Games workshop calls them these days, Is unfortunately one of the weaker armies in the game currently, Plus you need a lot of models making them one of the more expensive armies to start with.

Kinda like any other horde army currently. Expensive, unwieldy and easilly dealt with.

So you want an IG with mostly Men with support from vehicles?
If you want to have INFINITE men (I.E when they are killed, they come on the board next turn) then play the DKoK 'Assault Brigade' Army list

The only problem is that DKoK is made by FW, meaning your gonna need a HUGE investment to play them
(However the models are cool AF, and worth the investment)

Alright. Alternatives then.

Fairly cheap but decently competitive factions? Compromises have to be made.

(I'm not above abusing starter packs and such to get a small army up and running)

There's tau. Some (not all) units are fairly cheap. I think...
Necron are cheap too, and from my experiences are a pretty competitive army.

Honestly if you dislike the space marines for the religious overtones I'd avoid the guard as well (or ANY IoM faction) Maybe go Tau?

Inquisition
You only need 1 Inquisitor to start with

BrianDavion wrote:
Honestly if you dislike the space marines for the religious overtones I'd avoid the guard as well (or ANY IoM faction) Maybe go Tau?

It's mostly the visuals. Too many symbols everywhere. Skimming at the IG models on the web seems like they are a lot more toned down. Much more like Russian WW2 legions really.

Just stick with Guard. Tau have better rules, and in my opinion have better-looking models, but you might actually get to play games with your Guard whereas most of us with Tau armies have just ended up with ludicrously-expensive shelf decorations.

Also, if you're a Guard player, you avoid having to put up with gak like this...

Also also, if you're not a fan of symbols and other excessive amounts of details all over your models, you may avoid GW altogether because that's kinda what they've been doing for a while now and it'll only get worse.

Imperial Guard are expensive to collect and difficult to win with, but are one of the coolest looking armies on the table.
Small model count armies which win more often than not would be Necrons

Mansen wrote:
TLDR; New player, IG bad starting choice?

I've been trying very hard to avoid getting into wargaming over the years because of the cost,

IG is one of the most expensive armies to collect. It will require you to buy paint and store tons of models. Most army have less models then an average IG infantry platoon unit.
Do NOT start IG, tyranids or oks if you find 40k too costly. Also all human factions in 40k have a strong religious overtone to them thats a general theme in the setting. IG isnt any better then SM. Inquisition, GK and sisters are even worse.

IG is not so expensive if you don't mind going second hand or retro. Many people have hordes of IG they're getting rid of dirt cheap. Leman Russes and chimeras are everywhere and soak up points with reasonable returns.
You can benefit from the second hand market if you know a little bit of what you're after.

I don't think you plan on playing on a highly competetive level, at least it doesn't sound like that's your plan.

If you like the IG style, go for it. They're playable, they're fun and while yes, you have to spend twice as much per point than eg Grey Knights, you'll also have a ton more models to build and paint.

1 Company Command Squad
2 Veteran Squads (Cadian Storm Troopers)
3 Chimeras
2 Leman Russ
2 Wyvern

That's roughly ~1000 Points and should give you a decent starting point while being perfectly playable. Save a bit by getting the Start Collecting box for both Vet Squads and Leman Russes, and you'll also have 2 Commisars and 2 Heavy Weapon Teams.

Or try to find a Cadian Defense Force, that was also a pretty good starting point (just add some more chimeras/wyvern)

How seriously do you want to take the game?

Personally, knowing nothing about your situation, I'd take tau. I love the army, and they're in a great place to be able to be played in a fun way, in a strong but fun way, or in a **** you up way, which you can adapt quite easily based on the opposition.

They have a good enough ally matrix so you can work with a variety of other armies if you have to.

My alternatives for you would be necrons or Space Wolves. i know you don't like the SM religion feel but these guys are in their own world and definitely dont have that going for them.

Necrons and tau are simplest for modelling and painting though. Gotta love robot clones and/or fully enclosed suits.

Skitarii / ad mech plus a knight is a good, competitive choice that sort of resembles IG, and there's a really nice starter pack. Pick up a couple of those and you're off and running. If Knights are your thing, the new boxed game is a really cheap way to get two knights plus a terrain piece.

As a guard player, rules wise we're in a rough patch atm. IG isn't optimal by far, but we have loads of potential to make a totally customized force that you can put on the field thanks to bits sellers and third party bits. What I might suggest is that if you want to go infantry heavy and dont play at a GW store, look into minis from other companies. I think there is also FW traitor IG that does horde really well, not sure of which book the army list is in though.

You could go necron. Necrons are strong. Easy to pick up, a very forgiving army to play, easy to paint, and easy to learn on and expand with.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
IG is not so expensive if you don't mind going second hand or retro. Many people have hordes of IG they're getting rid of dirt cheap. Leman Russes and chimeras are everywhere and soak up points with reasonable returns.
You can benefit from the second hand market if you know a little bit of what you're after.

Plus you can use 3rd party minis. There's no shortage of men in uniforms with rifles- from napoeonics to ww2 to moderns who can be conscripted into his Glorious Majesty's Imperial Guard.
Just add aquilas and las emitters (cut the barrel at an angle)

Guard infantry (men with lasguns/autoguns) form the basis of the following lists:

Astra Militarum
Death Korps of Krieg
Elysian Drop Troops
Tyrant's Legion
Renegades and Heretics

and can be fielded as Cultists from Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

Guard armies vary from elite plasma toting Storm Troopers and Veterans rappelling from Valkyries to mechanised armoured fist platoons punching through enemy lines and placing squads on the objective, to vast hordes of conscripts or heretics being driven relentlessly forward by commissars, enforcers or angry space soviets.

I would highly recommend IG as the army with the most options for how you field them, the most conversion potential and quite frankly, the most real world sources to draw from.
If you need to switch sides and become rebels, heretics or xenos sympathisers all you really need is a new regimental banner and you are good to go. Have fun making your own flags and turning spare parts into glorious standard bearers.

On the table, most worlds are human and most conflicts involve humans, so you never need to question why the Chaos marines or Eldar are fighting them, unlike certain FTL-less fishmen who have never been to the eye of terror.
Most terrain is from Imperial worlds and tables that do feature Eldar or Necron architecture are just worlds you have recently conquered or are in the process of reclaiming for the God Emperor.
Campaigns usually demand guard as PDF or the bulk of a crusading force and you can never have enough guard players.

In short:

This blew up fast.

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. I'll think it over and make a final decision. Looks like it'll be IG or Necrons

Necrons are fairly understated model-wise, good rules-wise, have very solid vehicles if you like vehicles as well as some of the best infantry in the game. I'd recommend those if you don't want to be less than competitive with the IG.

If your buddy is playing orks, there's very little ways to go wrong with Necrons. I would suggest not going full power game (constructing a lychguard melee monster unit, going for multiple Canoptek Harvests) because you will always win against orks. Run some vehicles, particularly if you like tanks, and he'll have much more fun.

the_scotsman wrote:
Necrons are fairly understated model-wise, good rules-wise, have very solid vehicles if you like vehicles as well as some of the best infantry in the game. I'd recommend those if you don't want to be less than competitive with the IG.

If your buddy is playing orks, there's very little ways to go wrong with Necrons. I would suggest not going full power game (constructing a lychguard melee monster unit, going for multiple Canoptek Harvests) because you will always win against orks. Run some vehicles, particularly if you like tanks, and he'll have much more fun.

Let me add: If your buddy is playing Orks, you'll do totally fine with playing IG. You're going to have trouble tuning down a Necron army to the lower-tiered Ork level, and it's pretty frustrating to always have to leave good units at home. Especially if you prefered the IG in the first place, based on style.

Remember: Rules change, but your army will always be roughly the same. Sure, new things come in - like Centurions for SM, old things go out - Necron Pariahs, but that's really rare. Noone knows what an updated IG codex might bring to the table, or what an 8th edition can do for your vehicles. I'd rather not be stuck with an army I only grabbed because it was powerful in one edition just to see it go down to tier2 / tier 3 levels due to a new edition or a new codex. With an army you like you'll at least still have an army you like for their look & feel, even if they're not winning left and right.

IG are not competitive and one of the (if not the most) expensive armies to collect. That is just the truth of it.
But if IG is the army in the game you like most, you have to go with it, or else you will regret it later on after you spend lots of money on an army that wasn't your first choice. Also, IG will do just fine against Orks, Blood Angels, Chaos Space Marines and Tyranids, because those are also non-competitive codices. You will almost auto-lose against Eldar, Tau or Necrons though.

Depends what you want to get out of them, if you like the models and your local meta isn't full of power gamers imperial guard aren't going to be a bad choice for you.

There are no hard and fast rules really. It's very easy to say, oh no they are rubbish. And yes it's easy to back that up by saying their rules are out of date. But then not everyone builds an army for the same reasons. Not everyone is a power gamer, some people play for the fluff, and the modelling experience.

If you like guard, and you're not going to get constantly curb stomped in your local meta then. Don't let us all nay say you Into starting Tau or Necron armies.

The worlds your oyster really. You say you don't like the religiousness of the marines, but they don't have to be like that. They are YOUR marines. Make your own chapter and make them atheists. As long as you make up a good story for it who cares? And if you want them to look more like a modern army, paint them that way, there's lots of cool marine armies that look like that. Heck look up some of the raptors armies in the painting and modelling showcase forums.

If you like IG, then you're not going to be happy with buying another army, no matter how good or bad they are.

Besides, armies go up and down in power all the time. IG used to be considered cheese on par with how necrons and space marines are seen now. Give the game another year or two and IG could swing back round again.

Ultimately you want to pick an army you'll enjoy painting and building. Painting. It doesn't matter how good the army is now if by the time you're done they've gotten worse and you hated painting them to begin with.

This hobby is 99% building and painting and 1% gaming. You will spend far more time building your army than playing it. Hence why you want to pick an army that appeals to you. Especially since 40k's rules are garbage, you'll be glad you picked an army you enjoy painting after you suffer the inevitable burnout. Then you can try other rulesets since IG is "generic sci fi army" to a T and fits into a stupidly wide amount of systems with little modification.

Mansen wrote:
TLDR; New player, IG bad starting choice?

I've been trying very hard to avoid getting into wargaming over the years because of the cost, but one of my friends are pushing hard for me to start building at least one army so I can stop borrowing the occasional army for the bi-yearly refresher course.

I'm not really into SM religious overtones, or the silly space elf Eldar. But I've always liked the WW2 theme that IG has been having. However skimming threads here, it seems IG are scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of balance these days. So... bad time to get started as IG? I was thinking something like a balanced army of footsoldiers supported by APCs and Tanks. Pretty standard.

Alternatively I've considered Orkz on account of "rule of cool", but one of my friends already play those to death so it's not my first choice.

You're not into the religious overtones? Why even play 40k then?

I'm having a blast playing with my IG. I'm quite new to them tho.

Look for used armies. A lot of people are getting fed up of their huge IG armies because they take a lot of space and have a gakky codex. I got round $1.3K worth of IG for $550.

If you can snag a digital copy of Imperial Armor Siege of Vraks, it has rules for Death Korps of Kreig and Renegades and Heretics.

These are two different armies, one imperial and one chaos, that use imperial guard figures. Though, both have a lot of FW figures, you can get away with using standard AM minis. The rules for these armies might give you what you want. Both armies have access to artillery, which is pretty awesome in 40k, and will help give you some of that WW2 feel you want. My Renegades and Heretics can go pretty siege heavy with how much artillery they can bring. DKoK can bring some serious tank pain too.

The downside of R&H is the massive amount of infantry they need. They don't really do tanks well, no orders and low BS across the army, but super cheap bodies and artillery. So getting scores of used IG armies was awesome. I'm pretty sure DKoK can do an army that is 100% tanks, they also have little baby tanks that have explosives strapped to them, a giant breacher drill that will dig through your opponents in CC and some other goodies that are fun.

The book also has a buttload of sweet lore! If your group of friends is cool with it, give it a shot!

Honestly the cheapest, stringers army you can make, would be imperial Knights.

You only need to buy like 2 and you have close to 1k with of points and with the renegade box, you can effectively make a 1k army for the price of one knight

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Honestly the cheapest, stringers army you can make, would be imperial Knights.

You only need to buy like 2 and you have close to 1k with of points and with the renegade box, you can effectively make a 1k army for the price of one knight

Really, did you just tell a newbie to go for a frigging Imperial Knight army? Seriously? That's probably the worst suggestion you could've made to someone contemplating joining the game AND looking at IG already.