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If you like the Imperial Guard - but want to actually have a shot against competitive lists / competitive races - just pick up IA:13 or IA: Siege of Vraks (the gigantic master book).

The Renegades and Heretics / Renegades of Vraks lists are a much better representation of what Imperial Guard should be, and you could model them completely loyalist with little issue. Ogryns with just melee weapons for spawn, medics to represent covenants of nurgle, conscripts for mutant rabble, regular guardsmen for your regular platoons, ect ect.

Mansen wrote:
TLDR; New player, IG bad starting choice?

I've been trying very hard to avoid getting into wargaming over the years because of the cost, but one of my friends are pushing hard for me to start building at least one army so I can stop borrowing the occasional army for the bi-yearly refresher course.

I'm not really into SM religious overtones, or the silly space elf Eldar. But I've always liked the WW2 theme that IG has been having. However skimming threads here, it seems IG are scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of balance these days. So... bad time to get started as IG? I was thinking something like a balanced army of footsoldiers supported by APCs and Tanks. Pretty standard.

Alternatively I've considered Orkz on account of "rule of cool", but one of my friends already play those to death so it's not my first choice.

If you like IG just play IG. We could say they are in a bad place and stuff, but really its the game. Starting out this game at all in its current state is really the bad choice, not really a particular faction. There is just too many rules holes, glaring imbalances, extreme price of entry, and over all bad factors within the community to say its a good idea. And really there are lot of great games out there that are just plain better.

If you want to get into 40k just pick the faction you like. It is literally the only way to have fun. Every faction can at least muster a decently performing fluffy army. If you are trying to be competitive you are in the wrong game. You will just become frustrated and disillusioned by GWs bad decisions. However, if you go in there making the army you want with the theme you like you will be fine.

Play Tau or Skitari/Mechanicus. Both of them are pretty much what the Imperial Guard should be.

I say go for IG if that's what is catching your eye. They have some fun units. They're very fluffy as well. Just start off buying a few squads and an HQ and see if you even like working on minis. As IG you can go tanks or infantry swarms, so you do have a choice there. Also, while you may think you don't like Space Marines, there's so many different chapters that I guarantee at least one will catch your attention at some point, Farther down the road you can always ally up with the other branches of the Imperium whenever you feel like it. You can even use your IG army as chaos worshippers through the imperial armor books if you want something more dark. All in all, even if you find out that you don't like them on the tabletop, they can still be fun on the hobby side, and they make good auxilary forces for just about any army. Everyone loves huge guns!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. LOTS of places make little soldiers, so as everyone else mentioned, you can buy non GW tanks and and infantry for pretty cheap.

As a tau player, I'll tell you right now that you'll get flak for bringing a fluffy list because you didn't bring nothing but vespid and 14 ethereals. Seriously so many people hate tau instead of learning how to deal with them. Tau isn't even top tier.

I swear space marines can be the best but the moment a xeno race gets close then all of their players are cheese mongering TFGs

Mansen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Honestly if you dislike the space marines for the religious overtones I'd avoid the guard as well (or ANY IoM faction) Maybe go Tau?

It's mostly the visuals. Too many symbols everywhere. Skimming at the IG models on the web seems like they are a lot more toned down. Much more like Russian WW2 legions really.

ahh so it's the heavy use of iconagraphy that's the problem? a lot of that is decals etc, you can paint marines up pretty plain honestly.

Tau lists on average will pulverize an average marine list because shooting rules 7th ed. Marines have to bring very specific and abusive combos to compete. BA are the proof of this. BA are marines with no abusive (good) units, and so tau are an auto-loss for us. There is no dealing with them.

Your flag says denmark. In scandinavia 1500 seems to be the prefered size for matches, and Guard is terrible at that size. You can still have fun in competative games of course.

Guard is decent at 500 points imo, and at 2250 where you can either field an 14AV and 50 models in a tiny match, or really go to town with a proper leafblower list.

I got the impression that 2000-2500 point lists are more common in the USA, with tournaments at that size even (and very little terrain by the way). Guard are ok (but not great) at that size.

500 to 1000 is where the Guard is at. Sadly very few players will play at those levels (Been trying to get my SM playing opponents too for years now)

No one is going to mention Militarum Tempestus? Scions are a low model count army that are actually in the IG book, but have their own standalone book to use. They arent particularly great and they have a steep learning curve. But if you are looking for something that will not be a huge investment, looks like cool soldiers, (and mind you still dont have to use the actual Scion models, stuff like Kasrkin are out there and look great. I personally love them and they easily ally with all kinds of armies. You can pick up the Start Collecting! box for IG and throw them in as a formation, or even get the Skitarii box (which is an amazing deal for the cost).

Just keep in mind it is an unforgiving army to play, but in small points (1000 or less) they can really shine as hard hitting all or nothing army.

How would he play them? The book was limited edition if I remember right, so the only way he'd be able to get the book would be to use less than legit methods to get it online.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
How would he play them? The book was limited edition if I remember right, so the only way he'd be able to get the book would be to use less than legit methods to get it online.

As far as I know you can still get it, theres a paper back out there and an eBook version you can still get, that limited edition rumor was only because they were too lazy to print enough to keep up with demand

Guard are a tough army to play this edition. The codex got hurt, and the "strengths" are not suited to winning 7th edition missions. If you only played slug-fest see who lasts the longest, till death do we end... IG would have a shot... maybe.

But you've got to go out and capture objectives, and IG have a tough time doing that while maintaining their firepower, and avoiding assault, so they just aren't built to win 7th edition.

In terms of alternatives, Tau and Necrons have a "Shooty Focus" without power armour, and either one is well suited to 7th's win conditions.

 master of ordinance wrote:
500 to 1000 is where the Guard is at. Sadly very few players will play at those levels (Been trying to get my SM playing opponents too for years now)

750 is a fun game format. It makes lousy units like land speeders and attack bikes quite fun, as you have space to move them around without having to park next to a crowded enemy unit

 generalchaos34 wrote:
No one is going to mention Militarum Tempestus?

They have the Obsec mobility to score well in 7th, which is a big plus. But a low model count army that revolves around deepstrike and their glass cannon transports certainly doesn't play much like the IG!

 triplegrim wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
500 to 1000 is where the Guard is at. Sadly very few players will play at those levels (Been trying to get my SM playing opponents too for years now)

750 is a fun game format. It makes lousy units like land speeders and attack bikes quite fun, as you have space to move them around without having to park next to a crowded enemy unit

But one cannot spam Vindicators and Librarius Conclaves at that level

Skitarii are a fun army to get started with, they have great models, fun special rules, even better guns, and they have great ally potential with cult Mechanicus and imperial Knights. Their basic troopers have arguably the best basic weapon in the game.

Join the Imperial Guard or a Commissar will come to your house and kill your pets. I've been playing for almost 20 years and own 5 huge armies I've fully painted myself and the one I love the most and am the proudest of are my Guardsmen. Don't worry about power level, it has been in constant flux since 1995 and who knows what'll be good tomorrow. Heck I have a Sisters of Battle army that has been kicking wholesale ass since 3rd edition despite getting no love from GW since Bill Clinton was President.

Rule of cool trump's all. And nothing is cooler than a lowly Guardsmen standing his ground against alien monsters 30 times his size or technology so advanced it borders on magic with nothing but a basic rifle and a magnificent set of testes.

Besides which, one day the Guard will be good again and then we can make threads about how they're cheesy/op/have the scum of the earth as players. And by the time that day comes you'll finally have your army painted so, a win-win all around!

If you want to win games as a beginner, don't play IG.

If you want to have *fun* I struggle to think of a more characterful and generally bombastic army than IG with of course the exception of orks. Orks v IG in a non-competitive environment has yielded some of the most entertaining afternoons of my hobby.

With IG entire sections of the table become a moonscape in a round of shelling, and in turn entire towns worth of infantry get shredded in close combat, for that one lucky guardsman to stab a terminator in the eye with his bayonet.

Not to mention we have quite possibly the most detailed and intricate/pretty vehicles in the catalogue.