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The wording of Ramshakle says that once the trukk suffers a penetreting hit we roll and on a 6 the pen becomes a glance. A Str D automaticaly pens and causes d3/6+d6 HP loss. If I use Ramshakle to downgrade the D attack to a glance it would loose the multiplr HP part and just deal 1 HP damage. Am I right or have I missed something?

You'd still lose the HP, but you can downgrade the pen result on a 6.

 hordrak wrote:
The wording of Ramshakle says that once the trukk suffers a penetreting hit we roll and on a 6 the pen becomes a glance. A Str D automaticaly pens and causes d3/6+d6 HP loss. If I use Ramshakle to downgrade the D attack to a glance it would loose the multiplr HP part and just deal 1 HP damage. Am I right or have I missed something?

You realize you roll for a 6 after they roll their d3 or d6 + 6 right? Example, I roll a 4 on the d chart. I roll my d3, a 5 shows up scoring me 3 penetrating hits. You now roll 3 dice and one a 6 one of those becomes a glance.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 hordrak wrote:
The wording of Ramshakle says that once the trukk suffers a penetreting hit we roll and on a 6 the pen becomes a glance. A Str D automaticaly pens and causes d3/6+d6 HP loss. If I use Ramshakle to downgrade the D attack to a glance it would loose the multiplr HP part and just deal 1 HP damage. Am I right or have I missed something?

You realize you roll for a 6 after they roll their d3 or d6 + 6 right? Example, I roll a 4 on the d chart. I roll my d3, a 5 shows up scoring me 3 penetrating hits. You now roll 3 dice and one a 6 one of those becomes a glance.

That's not how Destroyer works. Destroyer weapons only do a single Penetrating Hit and the extra d3 you roll (or 6+d6 on a 6) changes the number of hull points removed for that single penetrating hit.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 hordrak wrote:
The wording of Ramshakle says that once the trukk suffers a penetreting hit we roll and on a 6 the pen becomes a glance. A Str D automaticaly pens and causes d3/6+d6 HP loss. If I use Ramshakle to downgrade the D attack to a glance it would loose the multiplr HP part and just deal 1 HP damage. Am I right or have I missed something?

You realize you roll for a 6 after they roll their d3 or d6 + 6 right? Example, I roll a 4 on the d chart. I roll my d3, a 5 shows up scoring me 3 penetrating hits. You now roll 3 dice and one a 6 one of those becomes a glance.

That's not how Destroyer works. Destroyer weapons only do a single Penetrating Hit and the extra d3 you roll (or 6+d6 on a 6) changes the number of hull points removed for that single penetrating hit.

Please cite rule and page number?

Edit: regardless, the d3 or d6 + 6 would still happen, even if ramshackle made them all glances. There is nothing stating ramshackle STOPS the extra hull point loss.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 hordrak wrote:
The wording of Ramshakle says that once the trukk suffers a penetreting hit we roll and on a 6 the pen becomes a glance. A Str D automaticaly pens and causes d3/6+d6 HP loss. If I use Ramshakle to downgrade the D attack to a glance it would loose the multiplr HP part and just deal 1 HP damage. Am I right or have I missed something?

You realize you roll for a 6 after they roll their d3 or d6 + 6 right? Example, I roll a 4 on the d chart. I roll my d3, a 5 shows up scoring me 3 penetrating hits. You now roll 3 dice and one a 6 one of those becomes a glance.

That's not how Destroyer works. Destroyer weapons only do a single Penetrating Hit and the extra d3 you roll (or 6+d6 on a 6) changes the number of hull points removed for that single penetrating hit.

Please cite rule and page number?

Edit: regardless, the d3 or d6 + 6 would still happen, even if ramshackle made them all glances. There is nothing stating ramshackle STOPS the extra hull point loss.

The Destroyer rule in the Special Rules section (the only place Destroyer is ever explained)

And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

Don't quite understand what you said here? Are you saying the correct version of still getting d3 or whatever glancing hits is incorrect sir? Because.. THAT would be incorrect

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

Don't quite understand what you said here? Are you saying the correct version of still getting d3 or whatever glancing hits is incorrect sir? Because.. THAT would be incorrect

Agreed, iirc the rule states the vehicle suffers a single penetrating hit that causes d3 hull points of damage. If the pen becomes a glance then there is no pen to cause the d3 hull points.

Aegis1650 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

Don't quite understand what you said here? Are you saying the correct version of still getting d3 or whatever glancing hits is incorrect sir? Because.. THAT would be incorrect

Agreed, iirc the rule states the vehicle suffers a single penetrating hit that causes d3 hull points of damage. If the pen becomes a glance then there is no pen to cause the d3 hull points.

This is false. The roll to hit causes a penetrating hit. Then, because it is a D weapon, you roll on the destroyer chart. The pen doesn't cause you to roll on the destroyer chart, the fact that you hit does. Even with the reduction to a glance, you still hit, so still roll on the chart. A roll of 6 for ramshackle simply means that whatever is rolled for d3 or d6 + 6 is all glancing instead of penetrating.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Aegis1650 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

Don't quite understand what you said here? Are you saying the correct version of still getting d3 or whatever glancing hits is incorrect sir? Because.. THAT would be incorrect

Agreed, iirc the rule states the vehicle suffers a single penetrating hit that causes d3 hull points of damage. If the pen becomes a glance then there is no pen to cause the d3 hull points.

This is false. The roll to hit causes a penetrating hit. Then, because it is a D weapon, you roll on the destroyer chart. The pen doesn't cause you to roll on the destroyer chart, the fact that you hit does. Even with the reduction to a glance, you still hit, so still roll on the chart. A roll of 6 for ramshackle simply means that whatever is rolled for d3 or d6 + 6 is all glancing instead of penetrating.

No, the roll to hit is not what causes a penetrating hit. If that were the case then when you roll a 1 on the D chart it would still cause a penetrating hit (which it does not)

 CrownAxe wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Aegis1650 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

Don't quite understand what you said here? Are you saying the correct version of still getting d3 or whatever glancing hits is incorrect sir? Because.. THAT would be incorrect

Agreed, iirc the rule states the vehicle suffers a single penetrating hit that causes d3 hull points of damage. If the pen becomes a glance then there is no pen to cause the d3 hull points.

This is false. The roll to hit causes a penetrating hit. Then, because it is a D weapon, you roll on the destroyer chart. The pen doesn't cause you to roll on the destroyer chart, the fact that you hit does. Even with the reduction to a glance, you still hit, so still roll on the chart. A roll of 6 for ramshackle simply means that whatever is rolled for d3 or d6 + 6 is all glancing instead of penetrating.

No, the roll to hit is not what causes a penetrating hit. If that were the case then when you roll a 1 on the D chart it would still cause a penetrating hit (which it does not)

If the d3 or whatever doesn't happen, please state what cancels it out. The penetrating become a glancing does not state the extra hull points can't be lost. You need to prove it does get lost

From 'Destroyer Weapons' (pg. 163, main rulebook):

To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration.

And from the Destroyer Weapon Attack Chart:

Solid Hit: The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1.

 Ghaz wrote:
From 'Destroyer Weapons' (pg. 163, main rulebook):

To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration.

Thank you.

Edit: anymore questions? D3 or d6+6 still happens

Read my edited post above. Its the penetrating hit that causes the lost Hull Points.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Aegis1650 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

Don't quite understand what you said here? Are you saying the correct version of still getting d3 or whatever glancing hits is incorrect sir? Because.. THAT would be incorrect

Agreed, iirc the rule states the vehicle suffers a single penetrating hit that causes d3 hull points of damage. If the pen becomes a glance then there is no pen to cause the d3 hull points.

This is false. The roll to hit causes a penetrating hit. Then, because it is a D weapon, you roll on the destroyer chart. The pen doesn't cause you to roll on the destroyer chart, the fact that you hit does. Even with the reduction to a glance, you still hit, so still roll on the chart. A roll of 6 for ramshackle simply means that whatever is rolled for d3 or d6 + 6 is all glancing instead of penetrating.

No, the roll to hit is not what causes a penetrating hit. If that were the case then when you roll a 1 on the D chart it would still cause a penetrating hit (which it does not)

If the d3 or whatever doesn't happen, please state what cancels it out. The penetrating become a glancing does not state the extra hull points can't be lost. You need to prove it does get lost

If you actually read the Destroyer Weapon chart you would know what the effects on the chart say such as for 2-5 it says "The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1." So a Destroyer wepoan causes a penetrating hit that has a special effect attached to that penetrating hit. If it is no longer a penetrating hit then it no longer has the affected attached to the penetrating hit,

 CrownAxe wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Aegis1650 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
And it is very clearly stated as a penetrating hit that then loses the dice number of hull points instead of 1.

Don't quite understand what you said here? Are you saying the correct version of still getting d3 or whatever glancing hits is incorrect sir? Because.. THAT would be incorrect

Agreed, iirc the rule states the vehicle suffers a single penetrating hit that causes d3 hull points of damage. If the pen becomes a glance then there is no pen to cause the d3 hull points.

This is false. The roll to hit causes a penetrating hit. Then, because it is a D weapon, you roll on the destroyer chart. The pen doesn't cause you to roll on the destroyer chart, the fact that you hit does. Even with the reduction to a glance, you still hit, so still roll on the chart. A roll of 6 for ramshackle simply means that whatever is rolled for d3 or d6 + 6 is all glancing instead of penetrating.

No, the roll to hit is not what causes a penetrating hit. If that were the case then when you roll a 1 on the D chart it would still cause a penetrating hit (which it does not)

If the d3 or whatever doesn't happen, please state what cancels it out. The penetrating become a glancing does not state the extra hull points can't be lost. You need to prove it does get lost

If you actually read the Destroyer Weapon chart you would know what the effects on the chart say such as for 2-5 it says "The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1." So a Destroyer wepoan causes a penetrating hit that has a special effect attached to that penetrating hit. If it is no longer a penetrating hit then it no longer has the affected attached to the penetrating hit,

Read above and see that the rules straight from the book prove you wrong. I'm sorry, you have continued to post nonsense with no rules quotes to help back your claim

I quoted the relevant rule what are you talking about? And if you want to complain about me not quoting anything, you haven't quoted anything yourself.

 Ghaz wrote:
From 'Destroyer Weapons' (pg. 163, main rulebook):

To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration.

And from the Destroyer Weapon Attack Chart:

Solid Hit: The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1.

These two rules actually contradict each other. One from the BRB simply states that on a to hit roll, roll on the chart. The other states that because it's a penetrating hit, roll on the chart. Therefore these rules alone break the game. This is something that will need a faq that it won't ever probably get. Now I see where you were coming from crown. As you should see where I was

"The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1."

That's what he quoted. And it's all you need. And it's from the BRB.

It's pretty plain to see that if the penetrating hit is negated, then so is the part about losing D3 Hull Points. Because it's the penetrating hit that is being modified by the D chart. And it's the penetrating hit that is being negated.

Zimko wrote:
"The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1."

That's what he quoted. And it's all you need. And it's from the BRB.

It's pretty plain to see that if the penetrating hit is negated, then so is the part about losing D3 Hull Points. Because it's the penetrating hit that is being modified by the D chart. And it's the penetrating hit that is being negated.

Read above to see you are correct and wrong. It's pretty plain to see and obvious that it could be interpreted either at by the brb. Rules quote. Gg no re

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
From 'Destroyer Weapons' (pg. 163, main rulebook):

To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration.

And from the Destroyer Weapon Attack Chart:

Solid Hit: The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1.

These two rules actually contradict each other. One from the BRB simply states that on a to hit roll, roll on the chart. The other states that because it's a penetrating hit, roll on the chart. Therefore these rules alone break the game. This is something that will need a faq that it won't ever probably get. Now I see where you were coming from crown. As you should see where I was

I don't see a conflict.

The first rule tells you to roll to hit as usual, but instead of rolling armour penetration, you roll on the D chart and apply it's effect.

If you roll a 2-5, then you implement the second rule quoted. Which says to resolve a penetrating hit.

 Ghaz wrote:
From 'Destroyer Weapons' (pg. 163, main rulebook):

To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration.

And from the Destroyer Weapon Attack Chart:

Solid Hit: The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1.

What he said. D weapons cause a penetrating hit that causes D3 hull points of damage instead of 1.

Ramshackle turns a penetrating hit into a glance. A glance causes one hull point of damage with no other effects.

So, yes, a successful ramshackle downgrades a 2-5 destroyer result to a single hull point of damage, as ridiculous as that is.

Zimko wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
From 'Destroyer Weapons' (pg. 163, main rulebook):

To resolve a Destroyer weapon's attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table above instead of rolling To Wound or for armour penetration.

And from the Destroyer Weapon Attack Chart:

Solid Hit: The model suffers a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 Hull Points instead of 1.

These two rules actually contradict each other. One from the BRB simply states that on a to hit roll, roll on the chart. The other states that because it's a penetrating hit, roll on the chart. Therefore these rules alone break the game. This is something that will need a faq that it won't ever probably get. Now I see where you were coming from crown. As you should see where I was

I don't see a conflict.

The first rule tells you to roll to hit as usual, but instead of rolling armour penetration, you roll on the D chart and apply it's effect.

If you roll a 2-5, then you implement the second rule quoted. Which says to resolve a penetrating hit.

Wrong again.. On a roll with being wrong I see. If you roll on the chart and then it turns into a penetrating, then you'd still get d3 or d6+6 because you have already rolled 2-5 for that and gotten the result. The penetrating to glance needs to happen before the roll to see how many hull points are lost. Since ramshackle will mostly come into play on the d weapon persons turn, he decided order. So I roll to hit, hit.. Roll on the chart, get a 4.. Roll d3, get a 4, you roll two dice and get one 6, I now have one glance one pen

So you rolled a 4. This means that you have a penetrating hit that will remove 2 Hull Points instead of one... IF that penetrating hit is allowed to succeed.

Then you roll for ramshackle.

You roll once for the one penetrating hit.

If you roll a 6, turn it into glancing.

Now the Penetrating hit that would have caused 2 Hull Points of damage is negated to a Glancing hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The D3 does not apply multiple penetrating hits. It's still only 1 penetrating hit.

Zimko wrote:
So you rolled a 4. This means that you have a penetrating hit that will remove 2 Hull Points instead of one... IF that penetrating hit is allowed to succeed.

Then you roll for ramshackle.

You roll once for the one penetrating hit.

If you roll a 6, turn it into glancing.

Now the Penetrating hit that would have caused 2 Hull Points of damage is negated to a Glancing hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The D3 does not apply multiple penetrating hits. It's still only 1 penetrating hit.

Thing is, it has already succeeded when I got a to hit roll and didn't roll a 1 on the destroyer chart. Show me in the brb where a successful to hit roll isn't a successful hit please

Again, ramshackle causes the penetrating hit to no longer occur. It turns into a glance.

Any and all effects of the penetrating hit, including rolling on the vehicle damage chart, and in the particular case of str D weapon, penetrating hits causing extra hull points of damage are negated because it is no longer a penetrating hit. It is a glance.

And glances cause one hull point of damage.

Rolling ramshackle for each hull point of damage you inflict with a D penetrating hit, per pain's example above, is nonsense. In pain's example, he rolled a 2 on a D3 on your D chart, and lets say neither ramshackle rolls were successful. Does that mean your single penetrating hit has caused two penetrating hits?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Zimko wrote:
So you rolled a 4. This means that you have a penetrating hit that will remove 2 Hull Points instead of one... IF that penetrating hit is allowed to succeed.

Then you roll for ramshackle.

You roll once for the one penetrating hit.

If you roll a 6, turn it into glancing.

Now the Penetrating hit that would have caused 2 Hull Points of damage is negated to a Glancing hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The D3 does not apply multiple penetrating hits. It's still only 1 penetrating hit.

Thing is, it has already succeeded when I got a to hit roll and didn't roll a 1 on the destroyer chart. Show me in the brb where a successful to hit roll isn't a successful hit please

Ramshackle interrupts this process. 'suffers a penetrating hit'. When you roll on the D chart and get a 2... at that point you've 'suffered a penetrating hit' and must resolve ramshackle BEFORE applying the effects of that penetrating hit.

What are the effects of a penetrating hit?
- Remove a Hull Point and roll on the penetrating table.

What part does the D chart modify?
- Remove D3 Hull Points instead of 1.

Ramshackle will negate all the affects and turn it into a Glancing Hit if a 6 is rolled.

If a 6 is rolled, then you apply the affects of a Glancing Hit:
- Remove a Hull Point

If a 6 is not rolled, then you apply the affects of the Penetrating Hit:
- Remove D3 Hull Points and roll on the penetrating table.

Here is my interpretation:

Unit A's shooting phase.
Unit A selects a D weapon to fire.
Unit A targets Unit B (which has ramshackle)
Unit A rolls to hit Unit B.
Unit A hits Unit B.
Instead of rolling a vehicle penetration roll as normal, Unit A must roll on the D weapon chart.
Unit A rolls a D6 for D weapon result.
Unit A rolls a 6.
Unit B suffers a 'Devastating Hit'. This devastating hit causes 1 penetrating hit. This 1 penetrating hit does 7-12 hull points.
Unit B receives 1 penetrating hit.
Unit B rolls a D6 for Ramshackle.
Unit B rolls a 6.

The rule for ramshackle is as follows:
Ramshackle: Roll a D6 each time a Trukk suffers a penetrating hit. On the roll of a 6, the Trukk only suffers a glancing hit instead.

The single "Devastating Hit" penetrating hit that does 7-12 hull points is now a "Glancing Hit" as defined by the BRB.
So, it is no longer a "Devastating Hit". it is now a "Glancing Hit" and a "Glancing Hit" does 1 hull point and allows cover saves and invulnerable saves.

 deviantduck wrote:

The single "Devastating Hit" penetrating hit that does 7-12 hull points is now a "Glancing Hit" as defined by the BRB.
So, it is no longer a "Devastating Hit". it is now a "Glancing Hit" and a "Glancing Hit" does 1 hull point and allows cover saves and invulnerable saves.

So, it can downgrade the Penetrating Hit, but not the Devastating Hit...